Oron Peled wrote:
So Allon presented one flaw in your assumptions and you came with a
solution for this *specific* flaw...
I don't have a solution. It was an example. I used words like e.g.. Did
I say I had the scheme ready? Why are you trying to catch me on very
specific _details_ instead
On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:18:13 +0200
Evgeny Stambulchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why are you trying to catch me on very
specific _details_ instead of arguing about the idea/principles?
I just tried to show that the real world creates unique problems
that would destroy the single config mechanism
Oron Peled wrote:
I simply offered a strategy that may work IMO. Namely, collect
current working practices and galvanize them through well designed
API's.
Actually, it doesn't seem to me an impossible task to find a common
denominator (in the sense of API). Indeed, the three widely used types
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 02:55:10 +0200 (IST)
Tzafrir Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The programs provided the API that was originally needed: |lpr
Evgeny does have a point in that some applications need a lot more control
than just submitting a job (e.g: display a list of printers, listing the
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Evgeny Stambulchik wrote:
The smart
configurator can tell you if you have made an error in configuration, but
it really does not allow any action: if any configuration requires some
synchronization between two config keys,
Never! There should never be a need to sync
Oron Peled wrote:
And I still don't l;ike the current gconf: it requires an extra daemon
Worse! IIRC it's an extra daemon *per user*
So what? It's a reasonable solution for this kind of problem. In KDE,
there is DCOPServer and a bunch of others running per user. ssh, when used
properly
Alon Altman wrote:
Never! There should never be a need to sync two different keys! Continuing
the hostname example, it should be defined in a single place, e.g.
local_machine-network_settings-hostname and all scripts/daemons/apps
that need the value should access it instead of duplicating the
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:09:41 +0200
Evgeny Stambulchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wrong! My host has tens of different hostnames, also a host might have
several IP addresses. Every application needs to know under which hostname
OK, so the config should be more complicated. E.g.
On Sat, 2003-01-11 at 09:32, shlomo solomon wrote:
I'm afraid this is going to start a **war** and that's not my intention, but I
really feel I've got to get this off my chest.
Firstly, let me say that I've been using LINUX on and off for 6 years and that
it's been my only OS since
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Eli Marmor wrote:
I didn't want to detail too much in the point of CONF files, because it
was not my main point. But it caused some balagan, so please let me
give an example of a format that is not proprietary, and on the other
hand is not XML, and still is great for
Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
X Resources.
Does it threat anybody?
No? OK; Let's go on:
There are several requirements that are critical for creating a good
GUI.
One of them is the ability to work against a working program, and not
just a file.
Well, this has
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Affecting a program at run-time? I don't want to affect crond at run-time
or inetd at run-time or even Apache at run-time. I want to configure them,
and run them with the same configuration. If you want to create an Apache
Module that will listen to
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Evgeny Stambulchik wrote:
Hence, this approach is wrong. Webmin, LinuxConf, YAST, DrakeConf, you name it.
Huge duplication of efforts and _none_ of the above working properly. You need
an API (abstraction) that will both generate AND parse the configuration.
Moreover,
On Sun, Jan 12, 2003, Evgeny Stambulchik wrote about Re[2]: Binary configuration
files as panacea to whatever ails Linux (was: Re: the problem with LINUX):
Of course, you need a bidirectional mapping (i.e. not only from the
disk representation to the in-memory representation, but also vice
Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
Hence, this approach is wrong. Webmin, LinuxConf, YAST, DrakeConf, you name it.
Huge duplication of efforts and _none_ of the above working properly. You need
an API (abstraction) that will both generate AND parse the configuration.
Moreover, the Apache itself MUST use this
Nadav Har'El wrote:
Of course, you need a bidirectional mapping (i.e. not only from the
disk representation to the in-memory representation, but also vice-
versa); Otherwise, the changes can't be translated to rules of
configuration files.
Right, and the lack of these features (actually, the
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Evgeny Stambulchik wrote:
Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
Hence, this approach is wrong. Webmin, LinuxConf, YAST, DrakeConf, you name it.
Huge duplication of efforts and _none_ of the above working properly. You need
an API (abstraction) that will both generate AND parse the
On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 09:36:53PM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote:
There was a program called xresedit (or something like that... hmm, could it
be that XFree86 dropped this??) to edit running applications' configuration
on-the-fly (e.g., you could change the button colors on a running
application
Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
Think about embeded SQL. The backend could be a daemon (e.g. PostgreSQL),
but could also be a plain file (see SQLite). Basically, you just swap the
header files.
/me thinks: how can one binary work with all the different backends...
man dlopen. Or read existing code.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, shlomo solomon wrote:
My problem is that LINUX (as much as it's progressed over the years) is still
much too hard to install, set up, and use. As things stand now, it's not
really a viable alternative for John Q. User. As opposed to other OSs (that
will remain
Quoting shlomo solomon, from the post of Sat, 11 Jan:
My problem is that LINUX (as much as it's progressed over the years)
is still much too hard to install, set up, and use. As things stand
now, it's not really a viable alternative for John Q. User. As opposed
to other OSs (that will remain
Two remarks:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, shlomo solomon wrote:
[snip ]
I won't go into the details here, but those who have read my
posts over the past couple of months know that I had problems with USB
printer support, iptables, file permissions, etc. And most recently, I
haven't been able to use
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:32:21 +0200
shlomo solomon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
although my wife and kids all use Windows - and of course that makes me the
primary sysop for their machines :-(.
Why? Isn't Windows so easy that anyone can handle it
You see, as someone else already pointed out,
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Eli Marmor wrote:
* Migration from the current ASCII CONF format to binary format or
database-based format. There are zillion GUI's for Apache (just as an
example), and none is good, because it's impossible to develop a GOOD
GUI for an ASCII-based configuration file. I
Quoth shlomo solomon:
I'm afraid this is going to start a **war** and that's not my
intention, but I really feel I've got to get this off my chest.
War is good - drives the economy ;-). See if we shan't have one soon.
My problem is that LINUX (as much as it's progressed over the years)
is
Warning: the following text is long.
Request: ease don't reply without reading till the end. There may be
mistakes or things that you may want to argue with, but the whole
picture is the important thing, and not the (example:) exact number of
Linux/Windows users.
I agree with Shlomo, but also
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Eli Marmor wrote:
* Migration from the current ASCII CONF format to binary format or
database-based format. There are zillion GUI's for Apache (just as an
example), and none is good, because it's impossible to develop a GOOD
GUI for an ASCII-based configuration
Following Omer's response:
Just to clarify, I've NEVER mentioned Proprietary format;
XML is great (though you may inherit the problems of ASCII by writing a
cheating schema).
PostgreSQL/MySQL is good too (although it depends on a specific
implementation of a database).
And I was serious when I
Title: the problem with LINUX
Yeah, linux is a crappy piece of software. What isn't? But at least, it
was all written by kind sirs who awed nothing to you.
Anyway, Windows is no better. Even Windows needs the touch of
a techman for it to run smoothly and not crappily.
Things, all
On Saturday 11 January 2003 21:28, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
And re-install all of your programs. And hopefully you have your config
saved.
Talking about re-installation of Windows here, not Linux.
What you mention is mystrious behaviours, not hardware installations.
Proper usage of packages mean
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
* Dependency hell. Nothing like running a RPM (when you are not
connected to any network) to get dependency errors about missing files.
Or when you are using another machine (with a fast internet connection)
to download RPM's and burn them on a
Hi,
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Omer Zak wrote:
Why, yes of course, if you move to binary configuration files for your
applications and make their format a trade secret and release obfuscated
source files for the modules, which deal with the configuration files,
then you in effect erect a tollgate
On Sunday, Jan 12, 2003, at 01:03 Asia/Jerusalem, Alex Chudnovsky wrote:
And but - if the hardware is rare, there
may be as well that noone in the Linux community have any interest in
writing
the driver, even with the specs there in the open.
Tell me about it :-( That is exactly the case
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Alex Chudnovsky wrote:
On Saturday 11 January 2003 21:28, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
And re-install all of your programs. And hopefully you have your config
saved.
Talking about re-installation of Windows here, not Linux.
Me too. What about all of your configuration
Hi
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
On Sunday, Jan 12, 2003, at 01:19 Asia/Jerusalem, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
I know tools like apt
that help, but they are no good for computers with no internet
connection, and are horrible over dial up.
apt-get --recon --download-only
Hi :-)
On Sunday, Jan 12, 2003, at 02:10 Asia/Jerusalem, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
On Sunday, Jan 12, 2003, at 01:19 Asia/Jerusalem, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
I know tools like apt
that help, but they are no good for computers with no internet
connection,
On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Eli Marmor wrote:
Focus ALL the efforts to improve the compatibility issues:
* kernel, device drivers, etc. I thinkthat the most important events
for the friendliness of Linux in the recent years, were the launch of
Linux 2.2, and the launch of Linux 2.4. And hardware is
I didn't want to detail too much in the point of CONF files, because it
was not my main point. But it caused some balagan, so please let me
give an example of a format that is not proprietary, and on the other
hand is not XML, and still is great for developing GUI's for:
X Resources.
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