Thanks to everyone for the advice on playing a modern classical guitar
thumb-under without nails.
Today I moved the strings over by one and used a thinner 1st string
(.020" , 0.51mm), resulting in a tension of about 4 kg / string.
To my surprise the tone did not suffer (except for the g string
Correct--O'--Mundo, Oakland University it was. You sound like someone who
was there.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "C Etter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Ins
Ed Durbrow wrote:
>>I know you guys want to find ways to use finger nails. I was at one time
>>the fingernail king. I stood alone at the University I attended as the
>>fingernail aficionado on the Lute. I received much criticism for it, mostly
>>behind my back.
>>
>>
>
>Do you mean to say t
nsort
groups. It was a musical banquet for those into early music.
- Original Message -
From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Instrument Sou
>I know you guys want to find ways to use finger nails. I was at one time
>the fingernail king. I stood alone at the University I attended as the
>fingernail aficionado on the Lute. I received much criticism for it, mostly
>behind my back.
Do you mean to say there was more than one lutenist at
> Dear Jon,
> I think the word 'loo' is a corruption of 'l'eau' from the expression
> 'gardez l'eau' as the contents of the chamber-pot were thrown into the
> street!
> Happy New Year!
> Charles
Charles,
you don't have to resort to British evasion of statement ("I think"), as
what you said is
mat of the chamber pot toss.
But that is the fun of speculations.
Best, Jon
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"lute list"
Sent: Tu
11:02:13
An:"Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Vance Wood"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "lute list"
Kopie:
Thema: RE: Instrument Sounding
Dear Jon,
I think the word 'loo' is a corruption of 'l'eau' from the expression
'
t: 28 December 2004 09:18
To: Vance Wood; lute list
Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding
Vance,
I'm with you, I just mentioned the banjo finger picks as I know of them
(tried 'em, hate 'em). But I wonder at what you say of the lute - I thought
(from previous messages when I first
Vance,
I'm with you, I just mentioned the banjo finger picks as I know of them
(tried 'em, hate 'em). But I wonder at what you say of the lute - I thought
(from previous messages when I first joined the list) that lute players not
only didn't use fingernails but also wanted soft flesh on their fin
.
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "David Cassetti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
; "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding
>
> &
> How about false nails? I tried them once or twice and they work
> great, but taking them off nearly destroyed my nail underneath. I bet
> if you found the right glue or strong double sided tape you could get
> them to work.
There are also the banjo finger picks. If you get the metal ones you ca
> I guess my point is that I have a nice instrument that doesn't get any
>playing time, but if I could find a quick and easy way install fingernails,
>or found a set of strings more suitable for playing without nails, I might
>pick it up more often.
How about false nails? I tried th
ECTED]>
To: "Stephan Olbertz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding
>
>
>
>
> Dear Stephan, Carl and All:
> Federico Marincola once described the action of playing through a lute
> string
> skills develop they are no longer entirely within the realm
> of consciously directed activity. I guess some people would argue
..
> experience in music. So I too, would like to understand
> a lot more about how all of this works.
What helped me a lot to experience the relationship between conci
Cheers and happy holidays, Jim
>
>
>
>
> "Stephan Olbertz"
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web.de> cc:
Subject: Re: Instrument
Sounding
12/20/2004 05:59
Dear Carl,
thank you for your answer. Initially I didn't understand what you meant by
"grabbing" in your earlier post. Yesterday I thought I had the answer because I
experimented a bit with my lute and tried out what I wanted to describe in
answer to Dennis' post. Suddenly I realized that one c
ect. Maybe that's how it works! I will go
back and read Ronn's notes again
Thanks & best wishes,
Denys
- Original Message -
From: "James A Stimson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, Dec
inal Message -
From: "Charles Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute net"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:30 PM
Subject: RE: Instrument Sounding
> Dear Denis,
> it is very inte
Stephan, et al.,
The end joint is usually bent slightly inward - into the stroke - which
gives strength, but at the same time makes it easier to do a good free
stroke.
-Carl
--On Friday, December 17, 2004 6:36 PM +0100 Stephan Olbertz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Dear Carl,
>
>this i
direct links to some fotos is ...
http://www.luteonline.de/lesson_two_1.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] am 20.12.2004 09:01:53
An:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kopie: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thema: Antwort: Right hand technique/Instrument sounding
not necessarily but the sound improves and he variety of
lish, http://www.luteonline.de).
Best wishes
Thomas
Caroline Chamberlain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 20.12.2004
03:07:58
An:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kopie:
Thema: Right hand technique/Instrument sounding
Dear Lute Listers
I just do not understand how to play the lute courses with the right hand
sid
dear caroline -
i damaged my hand slightly when i was a kid (fell on a
rake) so a thumb-in/thumb-out discourse - instigated,
no doubt, by some fussy fop in the baroque - has given
way to "comfy or no" in my case.
it could be the mineral water here in tuscany or the
olive oil but both our fingerna
both strings in a course.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "Caroline Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:07 PM
Subject: Right hand technique/Instrument sounding
> Dear Lute Listers
>
> I just do
Dear Lute Listers
I just do not understand how to play the lute courses with the right hand
side of the fingers. Is this technique really necessary? And, as a
guitarist who wants to keep playing the guitar, must I learn the thumb
inside technique for the Renaissance lute?
Nails have always bee
Dear Eric,
(I'm sending this to the list as you probably intended)
thank you for your remarks. Unlike you I up to now tried to
have the same technically idea for both thumb in and out, a
flexible endjoint. I'm a full-time guitar teacher and while my
renaissance lute technique works sufficiently
there.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Denys
>
> No beard, incidentally! :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Stephan Olbertz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 19,
9 December 2004 15:14
To: lute net
Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding
Dear Stephan & All,
I am intrigued to read from time to time accounts of applying
varying degrees of control to the top joints of right hand fingers.
My own experience is that I have no independent volition at all over
whether
could be the very thing that
stops us getting there.
Best wishes,
Denys
No beard, incidentally! :-)
- Original Message -
From: "Stephan Olbertz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: Instrument
Oh yes, thank you! Apparently he leaves the end joint fixed,
that is to say: it's not bent passively in the opposite
direction of the stroke.
Regards,
Stephan
Am 18 Dec 2004 um 9:37 hat Daniel F Heiman geschrieben:
> Stephan:
>
> You can watch 6 seconds of Nigel North's right hand in action
Dear Carl,
this is quite interesting (although nails do not prevent such a technique,
it all depends on filing and various angles). Did he teach the end joint to
be flexible or not?
And how do our best thumb-outsiders on the baroque lute (North and others)
deal with this detail
I think highly of Aquila strings, gut and nylgut, but haven't tried them on
my guitar yet. Maybe I'll get around to it next year.
-Carl
--On Friday, December 17, 2004 11:07 AM -0500 "Eugene C. Braig IV"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 08:24 PM 12/16/2004, Carl Donsbach wrote:
>> After a time
At 08:24 PM 12/16/2004, Carl Donsbach wrote:
>After a time I also found a source for gut guitar strings. I found that
>their rougher texture made it much easier to control the attack.
Aquila is now assembling gut sets for 6-string guitar: their "Gut & Silk"
set has gut trebles and wound silk ba
I played CG for years without nails. My solution to the volume problem
came about during my study with Hector Garcia, one of Pujol's students.
The manner of attacking the string is less of a glossing over or plucking
the string, as with the nail or a plectrum, and more of a downward plunging
a
At 03:10 AM 12/15/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>This is nothing new. The domination of nails in guitar technique is
>relatively
>recent and was still debated well after 6-string guitars became the standard.
>Fernando Sor himself advocated nail-less technique.>>
>
>
>Right... Sor advocated a no
> side of the finger. BTW, I have enjoyed the appoyando stroke
> much more since cutting my nails, with nails I regard it as
> rather useless...
Fun, I have the opposite experience.
David
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
It may be question of personal way of feeling things, but in my case,
when i play the guitar with (double) high tension, thicker than the lute
strings,
to overcome dull muffled sound i pass really quickly and swiftly across the
string at hand. The only thing to be avoided for such playing is Savar
David,
I once strung up my classical guitar with Pyramid lute strings i.e.
thinner and thereby with less tension than regular guitar strings.
It was a lot easier to play without nails, and the sound was very nice.
The volume was reduced but the overall effect was, in my view,
successful.
Give
ecember 14, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Instrument Sounding
> In a message dated 12/14/2004 6:38:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I bet a lot of lute-netters have a classical guitar laying around in its
> case. I wonder what solutions have been invente
n:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kopie:
Thema: Re: Instrument Sounding
James,
I have a Takamine Hirade Arte Ten Concert Model made in 1989. With nails
it
sounded great, lots of volume and projection. Without nails thumb under
it
doesn't sound bad, but it's rather dull and quiet by com
James,
I have a Takamine Hirade Arte Ten Concert Model made in 1989. With nails it
sounded great, lots of volume and projection. Without nails thumb under it
doesn't sound bad, but it's rather dull and quiet by comparison. Getting
volume and tone seems to take a lot of effort. I tri
Additionally, it helps to keep the last finger joint flexible,
at least with low and normal tension strings. According to
Pujoll, who played without nails too, the index should stand
upright on the string. For comparison: Segovia's technique
(nails) would be to play over the left side of the fi
the idea of plucking "up" on a string with a risk of
bending the nail "back" gives me the shivers. i've
always favored a pick.
- bill
--- LGS-Europe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > case. I wonder what solutions have been invented
> to play the guitar
> > without maintaining fingernails:
>
> P
> case. I wonder what solutions have been invented to play the guitar
> without maintaining fingernails:
Play without nails, basically. A great proportion of 19c guitarists did, all
of my students do, I do. Gut strings, nylon strings, carbon strings, nylgut
strings, high
tension, low tension, 19c
In a message dated 12/14/2004 7:34:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That's very interesting. If you have any insight into how your student
achieves such a sound I'm all ears.
Before obtaining a lute I played classical guitar thumb-under without
nails (about 8 years). While
This is nothing new. The domination of nails in guitar technique is relatively
recent and was still debated well after 6-string guitars became the standard.
Fernando Sor himself advocated nail-less technique.
Best,
Eugene
> In a message dated 12/14/2004 6:38:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [E
Hi Eugene,
That's very true but most if not all of those guitarists used thumb-out
technique. I'm trying to stick with thumb-under.
-- David
EUGENE BRAIG IV wrote:
This is nothing new. The domination of nails in guitar technique is relatively
recent and was still debated well aft
James,
That's very interesting. If you have any insight into how your student
achieves such a sound I'm all ears.
Before obtaining a lute I played classical guitar thumb-under without
nails (about 8 years). While it was better than nothing, I found that it
took a great deal of effort to get an
In a message dated 12/14/2004 6:38:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I bet a lot of lute-netters have a classical guitar laying around in its
> case. I wonder what solutions have been invented to play the guitar
> without maintaining fingernails:
> Hi David,
>
> I have
Thanks for sharing - very interesting sound - are you using fingernails?
I'd like to convert my old Aria classical guitar to a wide-necked
12-string. It would be cool to have a "kit" with some simple
instructions: "saw off the tuning box, glue on the supplied pegbox, ...
- voila!"
I bet a lot
In a message dated 12/14/2004 6:38:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I bet a lot of lute-netters have a classical guitar laying around in its
case. I wonder what solutions have been invented to play the guitar
without maintaining fingernails:
Hi David,
I have a guitar stu
Dear ppl, recently i adapted this guitar to a six course instrument (not very
refined visually:)
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/raydimitry/imagini/coursesix.jpg
To whoever may want to make something similar or who is curious how such a
"thing" would sound,
i recorded a short piece-soundfile here:
http:
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