Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Updates

2013-08-13 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Abhilash, I see no reason to have more that one keyring for public keys and another for the private ones. In both cases, those key rings are a flat table indexed by the Key_id. It doesn't matter if the owner of the key is a list or a subscriber (or any other user) As for user keys, I think

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Systers VM for Mailman Development

2013-06-16 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
through the VM... then I can execute the files on the VM. snip Best, Julia On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net wrote: Hi, Julia. I'm Richard Wacky Wackerbarth, one of the Mailman developers and a Mentor for GSoC. I notice that, in a discussion

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-20 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Varun, It is easy to say He will receive an email about the tasks done in his absence. However, how do you propose to compose that email? Where and how is the information used to construct the email stored while the moderator is on vacation. If on a queue, which queue? ... etc. You seem to

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-19 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On May 13, 2013, at 10:52 PM, varun sharma wrote: Question: Should you be able to add a vacation stop to moderator or owner emails? I think the owner or moderators also should be allowed to use the in vacation

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-19 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
/19/13, Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net wrote: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On May 13, 2013, at 10:52 PM, varun sharma wrote: Question: Should you be able to add a vacation stop to moderator or owner emails? I think the owner or moderators also

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 18, 2013, at 12:29 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: I don't contest that there are strong similarities between a list of moderators and a mailing list of subscribers. What I'm saying is that they're not the same, there are several variations on the theme, and we must

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-17 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 17, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: Question: Should you be able to add a vacation stop to moderator or owner emails? Would it be easier if we just treated owners and moderators as a couple of additional mailing lists. In other words, for list x...@example.com, we

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project Discussion

2013-05-17 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
the moderators, etc. to have all of the subscription options On May 17, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Would it be easier if we just treated owners and moderators as a couple of additional mailing lists? That would require

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project Discussion - Web Posting Interface.

2013-05-09 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 9, 2013, at 12:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Barry Warsaw writes: On May 08, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I agree with Steve. One of the advantages of Django is its mix and match capability. Actually, I see two possible apps. One would

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project Discussion - Web Posting Interface.

2013-05-09 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Yes, I, too, would leave it to Peter. And I am not suggesting that he attempt to make any complete inventory. But I don't see how you can possibly decide requirements without taking them into consideration. On May 9, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project Discussion - Web Posting Interface.

2013-05-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I agree with Steve. One of the advantages of Django is its mix and match capability. Actually, I see two possible apps. One would integrate with HK. The other would be simpler, just providing a posting mechanism that provides authenticated message sender. On May 8, 2013, at 10:19 AM, Stephen

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC discussion

2013-05-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 8, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/5/7 Manish Gill mgil...@outlook.com: Hey guys. This is in response to Richard's email for project discussions. Richard and I have been having discussion regarding how to proceed with the project and he has been very

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC discussion

2013-05-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 8, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/5/7 Manish Gill mgil...@outlook.com: Hey guys. This is in response to Richard's email for project discussions. Richard and I have been having discussion regarding how to proceed with the project and he has been very

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC discussion

2013-05-07 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 7, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Manish Gill writes: So, for example, in trying to expose `MailingList` objects, as of now, there is no way to post messages to a list externally. Out of scope. You could do something that would allow a quick, urgent

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC - Seeking insight on Authenticated RESTful APIs

2013-05-06 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 6, 2013, at 4:36 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Initially , I was familiar with tastypie and I was strongly considering to use Tastypie only for this project. However after some advice from Richard , I am trying to be more flexible and I am trying to evaluate both

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoc - Requirement from Mentor to complete the project

2013-05-05 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Abhilash, Thanks for responding promptly and publicly. You, and the others should expect the discussions you mention without including them in response to my question. The discussion with your mentor is given -- That's one of the main responsibilities of a mentor. You may need to initiate

[Mailman-Developers] GSoC Applicants

2013-05-04 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Calling all GSoC applicants -- You have all looked at the current state of MM and made proposals to improve it. Now it is time to discuss what YOU need others to provide so that your contribution fits into the whole without your having to implement everything yourself. Let's discuss what you

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-30 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
the less sophisticated, you are excluding some very few, but extremely powerful users. I share the goal of world domination. I don't want to exclude anyone if we can avoid it. Richard On Apr 29, 2013, at 11:57 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes

Re: [Mailman-Developers] About authentication (was Re: Architecture for extra profile info)

2013-04-30 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Steve, Again, we agree. (Something must be wrong :) ) I think that it is important that we (the senior developers and mentors) assure that we maintain a structure whereby each of the student proposals can proceed at the same time. Thus, for example, someone working on the User interface can do

Re: [Mailman-Developers] About authentication (was Re: Architecture for extra profile info)

2013-04-30 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
code. Richard On Apr 30, 2013, at 5:47 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@sys4.de wrote: Richard, * Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net: Again, we agree. (Something must be wrong :) ) I think that it is important that we (the senior developers and mentors) assure that we maintain a structure

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-29 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 28, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: snip My point is that IMHO it's flexible *enough*. I'm advocating that we attach the roles (whatever they may be) to an entire collection of lists. I know what you're advocating, and I

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-29 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 29, 2013, at 8:12 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: So you have at least three layers. Do you really think that it is more difficult to implement a general recursive tree than it is to implement those layers? No. What I think

Re: [Mailman-Developers] About authentication (was Re: Architecture for extra profile info)

2013-04-29 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 29, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Terri Oda te...@zone12.com wrote: 1. I would like to remind/tell you all that FOR THIS RELEASE, we will ONLY be supporting Mozilla Persona and passwords as authentication methods. This is not up for discussion at this time; it's a choice we've made to in order

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 27, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: It is not necessary to have more than a flat collection of lists. I don't know how it will be represented, but we *do* need to support virtual hosting, where the mailman administrator

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 27, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Primary Key == An identifier of the server's choice that identifies a unique instance of the specified resource. It is important to note that the client CANNOT rely on any particular scheme

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 28, 2013, at 2:15 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Xu Wang writes: The problem is how do you confirm ownership of the subscribed address when a request coming with an access token. You don't. That was done when the OAuth ID was linked to the address, using the

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 28, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Yes, initially generating a more generic structure than the ad hoc one in place (which doesn't even attempt to address delegation) Aha! Something that looks like a concrete use case

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 28, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: The rest of your post is just a reiteration of your religious belief that generic is good. Call it religion if you wish. It is based on DECADES of experience, many of which involved reworking existing code to handle

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
My understanding of the use of oAuth to provide login information from Google, Twitter, etc. is based on the following description provided by Google. Below is a trivial example of how to use Google's OAuth 2.0 endpoint to gain access to a Google API. It's a Python web application running on

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 28, 2013, at 9:58 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: The root of the tree covers all of the lists. Under that top node, we might create nodes for Customer Plans, for example, Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Each of these nodes would

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Steve, Here I agree with you. It is useful for MM to be able to accept enterprise information when it is available. OAuth is a mechanism that will be useful for some enterprises. To the general public, being able to use enterprise identification from common sources such as Google or Twitter,

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 27, 2013, at 2:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull turnb...@sk.tsukuba.ac.jp wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: https://server.example.com/mailman/list/ABCDEFG/attribute/join_address returns the email address to which subscription requests should be sent. ABCDEFG is what? The list? Yes

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I think that we are advocating the same approach. Your example is better tailored to actual MM resources and can be substituted for the one that I referenced. Note: I am speaking conceptually. The actual hard design of the details would be the scope of work for a GSoC project. The easiest way to

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I, and I think Stephen, are advocating the use of oAuth as a login method. Just as BrowserID provides a third party identifier, Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc. provide similar service through oAuth protocols. MM should be configurable to accept those, or other enterprise-provided identifiers.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 26, 2013, at 11:32 PM, Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net wrote: Additionally, I would generalize the grouping of lists into a hierarchical tree that represents the enterprise organization rather than aspects of the internet namespace. Stephen, Barry has introduced a small amount

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: ABCDEFG is what? The list? Yes. But note that it is some pk provided by the list store. pk ? Primary Key == An identifier of the server's choice that identifies a unique instance

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration

2013-04-27 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I don't think that we have the expertise to create a secure system. At best, we can adopt good practices and provide an obscured traffic stream. I consider anything more to be beyond the scope of the MM project. On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Stefan Schlott stefan.schl...@ulm.ccc.de wrote: On

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-26 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Abhilash, Thanks for the summary. Let me add a bit about what I think we should present in this interface. First, it should be RESTful and self documenting. The format of information delivered will be controlled by the http Accept: header The standard representation for communication between

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration

2013-04-22 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
. Richard Wacky Wackerbarth On Apr 22, 2013, at 3:33 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Abhilash Raj writes: Can you tell about who is going to mentor this(OpenPGP integration with mailman) I would guess the official mentors are likely to be myself and Wacky (Richard

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC Project idea: OpenPGP integration

2013-04-22 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Although there might be a place for the use of OpenPGP for identification of users to the WebUI, such a project would not, in itself, be sufficiently complex for a GSoC project. If you are interested in such an effort, it would need to be combined with other (preferably related) aspects of

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-19 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Barry, Are you starting to come around to the concept that I have been advocating for a long time? In particular, rather than owning the user information, core simply views it. I assume that you are reluctant to store foreign keys to external databases because you worry that consistency

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Whoa! Perhaps I don't understand oAuth. I thought that oAuth (and persona, kerberos, etc.) were protocols whereby one system (the provider) furnishes credentials for a second system (the client) to some third system (the consumer). By configuration, the consumer trusts that the provider has

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, some first thoughts on it: 1) It should be self-contained. Meaning: It should not depend on any mailman/mailman.client/postorius/hyperkitty packages. Agreed 2) Like the core, it should implement a Python-based

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: There is no reason why alternate channels [to a connection from localhost authorized by the OS] cannot be substituted as long as a means of identification (such as shared secrets

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Whoa! Perhaps I don't understand oAuth. I thought that oAuth (and persona, kerberos, etc.) were protocols whereby one system (the provider) furnishes credentials for a second system

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: There is no reason why alternate channels [to a connection from localhost

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:26 AM, Terri Oda te...@zone12.com wrote: On 13-04-18 8:03 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 1) It should be self-contained. Meaning: It should not depend on any mailman/mailman.client/postorius

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/4/18 Terri Oda te...@zone12.com: We're probably going to be running around with a bit of a hack job for the user database in the near future (either done by a student who needs it in a hurry or done by one of the core

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
components (HK and Postorius) are being driven by Django and you only make it more difficult to implement them when choose a different schema to model/present the data. On Apr 18, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/4/18 Richard Wackerbarth rich...@nfsnet.org

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Florian Fuchs flo.fu...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/4/18 Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net: Whoa! Perhaps I don't understand oAuth. I thought that oAuth (and persona, kerberos, etc.) were protocols whereby one system (the provider) furnishes credentials

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
/18 Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net: Yes, yes. Please re-invent the wheel once again. And while you are at it, you might just remove the dependancies on zope and storm, etc. I think that you are missing the point that, at this time, this is intended to provide the capabilities that MM

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Architecture for extra profile info

2013-04-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:25 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Since we consider the user manager to be a part of the MM complex, what have we gained by hiding the underlying credential from the web interface? Security. See the OAuth 2.0 spec

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 project discussion

2013-04-17 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
/avikpal IRC:- irc://freenode/avikp,isnick twitter:-https://twitter.com/avikpalme On 17 April 2013 01:02, Richard Wackerbarth r...@dataplex.net wrote: An interesting suggestion -- A couple of things to consider: How do you identify important messages? Will you deliver these messages

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 project discussion

2013-04-16 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
An interesting suggestion -- A couple of things to consider: How do you identify important messages? Will you deliver these messages twice -- first as important and then, later, as a part of the digest ? On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Avik Pal avikpal...@gmail.com wrote: also I would

Re: [Mailman-Developers] anti-spam filter

2013-04-15 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
FWIW, I tend to support Stephen's view with respect to usefulness and interface strategy. Wacky On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:22 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Patrick Ben Koetter writes: Perhaps the integration could create an interface itself that makes it easy to add other

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Hi from a student interested in a GSoC project

2013-04-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I encourage any GSoC candidates to actively discuss design issues on this list. Many aspects of MM3 remain only partially defined and still require design in addition to the coding that will follow. Although some might expect the mentors might spoon feed coding tasks, as a mentor, I would

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google summer of code 2013

2013-04-10 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
As has been suggested previously, at this point it is best that you simply start the discussion here on the mailing list. All of the mentors read the list and technical discussions should involve the entire community. On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Pratik Sarkar iampratiksar...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 - Introduction and Project Discussion

2013-04-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Although we would like for MM3 to run on Python 3, I don't think that all of our dependency libraries are ready for that yet. I am running MM under Python 2.7 Richard On Apr 8, 2013, at 3:13 AM, Udit Saxena saxena.u...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Udit

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 - Introduction and Project Discussion

2013-04-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Well, the Django ORM does run on python 3. So, even if it isn't the best, it is a possibility. Richard On Apr 8, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@list.org wrote: On Apr 08, 2013, at 07:02 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: Although we would like for MM3 to run on Python 3, I don't think

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 - Introduction and Project Discussion

2013-04-08 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Let me suggest that it would be useful to have the student develop something which could act as a plug-in module for any website. If we assume that there is an optional archiver such as hyperkitty, there should be a mechanism to seed the submission (in-reply-to, quoted text, etc.). But, if the

Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2013 : Authenticated REST-API in Postorius/Django

2013-03-28 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Welcome to our community, I'm happy to see that you are interested in the REST interfaces. In addition to TastyPie, I suggest that you also look at django-rest-framework. Please compare the two and let us know what you see as the advantages and disadvantages of each. Richard On Mar 28, 2013,

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Starting prep for GSoC 2013

2013-01-10 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Terri, In reference to your questions below, I offer these comments: (a) I enjoyed mentoring last summer and would like to do so again. (b) We need to give this serious thought, particularly if we were to propose direct participation (rather than under the PSF umbrella). One of the weaknesses

Re: [Mailman-Developers] HyperKitty : VCS change

2013-01-09 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I would like to see all of the MM related development migrate. I have no plans to migrate the core off of Launchpad and bzr. Cheers, -Barry ___ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~sophron/postorius/create_users into lp:postorius

2012-10-25 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Isn't the visibility of the list members a per_list policy setting? In any case, we will need to have list administrators (who are not the superuser) be able to see the membership on their list. I think that Postorius will require a better model for roles. Richard On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:19

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Getting to Mailman 3.0 final

2012-09-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On 09/18/2012 06:26 AM, Terri Oda wrote: That said, I'm tentatively planning a personal postorious hackathon all day Saturday the 22nd. If anyone wants to join me, I'll be on #mailman on freenode! Sorry that I cannot participate this weekend. I have another activity that will keep me busy

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Adding keys in the configuration file

2012-09-13 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Why do you think that the configuration of HK should be a part of the MM core? Like the Postorius configuration UI, HK is supposed to be a separable part of the overall system which is possibly running on an entirely separate host machine. As such, its daemon would be configured and operated as

Re: [Mailman-Developers] 3.0.0b1 fails bootstrap.py on Mountain Lion

2012-09-07 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
6, 2012, at 8:23 PM, Richard Wackerbarth rich...@nfsnet.org wrote: Barry, I have 10.7 and, today, I had the same problem. Yesterday, I was able to set things up without any problems. I think that the difference is that z3c.recipe.tag has bumped the version number to 0.5

Re: [Mailman-Developers] 3.0.0b1 fails bootstrap.py on Mountain Lion

2012-09-07 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
the buildout of mailman. Richard Wacky Wackerbarth On Sep 6, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Sep 06, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I have 10.7 and, today, I had the same problem. Yesterday, I was able to set things up without any problems. I think

Re: [Mailman-Developers] 3.0.0b1 fails bootstrap.py on Mountain Lion

2012-09-06 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Barry, I have 10.7 and, today, I had the same problem. Yesterday, I was able to set things up without any problems. I think that the difference is that z3c.recipe.tag has bumped the version number to 0.5 but that the distribution is missing one of its files. By manually downloading the

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-18 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 17, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 13, 2012, at 07:34 PM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: But, that REST interface is only one implementation of the service interface. The REST particulars are not really a part of the service. I see what you're saying, and this 1000ft

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Exposing not advertised lists via nntp archiver

2012-07-17 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 17, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:26 AM, Alexander Sulfrian wrote: There are mailinglists with a pubic archive but that not be advertised by the server. 'Advertised' lists are kind of a funny middle ground between private and public. They are public

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Exposing not advertised lists via nntp archiver

2012-07-17 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:46 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 17, 2012, at 01:34 PM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: But there probably should be a per-list configuration option for gateway-ing a list to the news. There may well be lists for which I am willing to advertise the existence without

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-16 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 15, 2012, at 12:35 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: We should not be required to repeat this in the future. Therefore, we need to have a service level interface for ALL inter-service interactions, even if we do not require the RESTful implementation

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-14 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
. On Jul 14, 2012, at 12:00 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: I think that you have missed a level of abstraction. Why do we need it? AFAICS, at this point we have a bunch of services that need to be specified somehow. We *need* a RESTful interface for some functions

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-13 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Stephen, From this posting to which I am replying and other recent ones from Barry, etc. I conclude that it is highly likely that the three of us have somewhat similar conceptual models of an extensible MM system. However, because of the terms that we have chosen in our descriptions, we have

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-13 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 13, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:56 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: Now, hopefully, we can agree that it is necessary to have a user service. Further it is reasonable to attempt to have this service distinct from the post routing service. The question

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-13 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
. are details of a REST IMPLEMENTATION of the service interface in the same way that Python classes and methods would be used to define a python interface. Or C++ class headers, etc. Richard On Jul 13, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 13, 2012, at 05:43 PM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-12 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
In many respects I think that we are in agreement. If I understand you, we both envision a distributed database whereby any of the components might actually provide the data storage for some specific class of information. For example, without specifying where in the system it will reside,

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-12 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
. In my view, each component extends only as far as its parts interact with the same private data representation. On Jul 12, 2012, at 2:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: I don't pretend to know just what our users will want to add. But they should be allowed to write

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-12 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:53 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 11, 2012, at 09:27 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: First, we should define all of the data storage in terms of the REST access points to the data. (And not, as presently done, the other way around) Next, we should access all

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
relational database and allow each of the modules direct access to the database engine. Richard On Jul 11, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: Since by far the most complicated, and most used, logins will be made from the web interface, it is much more

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 11, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: What I am advocating is that the core message handler NOT be the keeper of ONLY PART of it. What I'm advocating (mildly, because somebody else is going to have to do the work) is that the core

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 11, 2012, at 1:55 AM, Terri Oda wrote: * We'd also like to do openid, which means we need to somehow associate an openid token with an email address. So right now, postorius needs email address, username (for direct authentication), and potentially a list of openid or other tokens.

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
, and likely require that they be unique. Because of thread locking considerations, this may not be so easy to accomplish. On Jul 11, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote: Hi there, Am 11.07.12 15:34, schrieb Richard Wackerbarth: On Jul 11, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:29 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: No! Although you are making available (some/most/all) of the data values, you are not making available the ability to make arbitrary SQL-type queries to view the data. AFAIK the plan is to do that via

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:05 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Thanks for starting this discussion. Since the thread's already long, I'm just going to answer randomly with my own thoughts. And thanks for your reply. I just spotted something in it that makes me feel that rather than fundamental

[Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-10 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
I am encountering a problem with login on Postorius. There is no mechanism to keep the MM user database synchronized to the one which django creates. If you use BrowserID to log in, or if you are otherwise in the django user database, this is currently causing a access error for any user that

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Login / User Identification Issues in MM3

2012-07-10 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
where it requires it, obtain password confirmation from that source. Richard On Jul 10, 2012, at 9:14 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: I am encountering a problem with login on Postorius. There is no mechanism to keep the MM user database synchronized to the one

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1020683] Feature Request: Make regular_*_lists and *_these_nonmembers recursive (and aware of each other).

2012-07-05 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Robert, Although I recognize your goal, it isn't as easy as simply providing transitive membership. First, I presume that you are willing to restrict yourself to the case where lists listA, listB, and listC are served by the same instance of MM. On the distribution side, that restriction

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1020683] Feature Request: Make regular_*_lists and *_these_nonmembers recursive (and aware of each other).

2012-07-05 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On Jul 5, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Robert Arlt Jr. wrote: I can as well. In my view of the issue I believe that allowing everyone on listB to submit is the better option as I can easily make a list composed of those allowed to send unmoderated to listB, call it listB2 and add listB2 to listB then

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 - Using fqdn in the exposed URLs

2012-06-12 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
rather expecting the key to be a property of the object itself. That way, additional values can be associated with the object without changing the underlying database schema. Richard On Jun 12, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jun 12, 2012, at 08:01 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: Core

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

2012-06-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Jessy, Yes, there are plans (and activity) related to the presentation of list archives within the django framework. In fact, Aamir, one of our GSoC interns, is working on that very subject as his project for the summer. In keeping with the django philosophy of combining many special purpose

[Mailman-Developers] MM3 - Using fqdn in the exposed URLs

2012-06-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Are we making a design mistake? The current design of the Postorius and Hyperkitty web interfaces to the mailing list and its archives uses the fully qualified list submission email address as a component of the URLs presented to the public. Is this really a good idea? Just think of the

Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 - Using fqdn in the exposed URLs

2012-06-11 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
: On Jun 11, 2012, at 05:43 AM, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: I think that we should rethink this decision and follow a slug approach to the identification of the mailing lists in URLs. Those who choose to do so can use the fqdn as their slug. But others would be able to readily change

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3.0 fresh install - problems from python interpreter

2012-06-07 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
Jessy, I'm sure that any additions to the documentation will be welcomed. Good end-user documentation always seems to be something that gets shorted by the developers intimately related to the implementation aspect of the code. And, even when they make the effort, I'm not sure that they are

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Bug 1006345] Anonymous subscription via confirmation email

2012-05-30 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 30, 2012, at 11:06 AM, Robert Niederreiter wrote: actually, in postorius you need to be authenticated in order to subscribe to a list anonymous refers to the authentication in postorius in this case it would be nice to just have subscription form available to the public, sending

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-22 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 21, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Richard Wackerbarth writes: I believe that it may be your intention to have kept postorius hidden. But I don't think that the actual implementation has accomplished that. Please see ~mailman-coders/postorius/trunk : /src/postorius

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
On May 19, 2012, at 9:26 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: While I really don't want to get into yet another religious VCS discussion on yet another unrelated list wink, Bazaar has one killer feature IMO that neither hg nor git has. (There are many things I prefer in bzr over hg and git, but this is

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
If I am not mistaken, both git and bzr are capable of generating and displaying the same graphical structure. As for the merging of branches, git is perfectly capable of merging a branch as a single merge point in the graph (use the -no-ff option). And, I am sure that you could cause bzr to

Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Merge] lp:~wacky/postorius/csrf into lp:postorius

2012-05-21 Thread Richard Wackerbarth
and thus have something that an end-user can readily customize for their own use. Richard On May 21, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote: Hi, Am 20.05.12 16:22, schrieb Richard Wackerbarth: However, I am concerned that your implementation exposes /postorius/ in the URLs and in the template

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