Many thanks for these interesting and helpful comments. My own
favourite from Shakespeare is "Much as the waves march towards the
pebbled shore" where the shooshing sound runs in a wonderful
counterpoint with the stresses of the pentameter.
What you have described also reminds me of polyrhythmic
Chers amateurs de Virgile,
Loin de moi l'idée de polémiquer stérilement à
propos de cette question de la diction des vers latins, qui, somme toute,
intéresse peu de gens sur terre.
Toutefois, je me permets d'ajouter un codicille "scientifique" dans
ma langue maternelle.
Il se trouve que la pronon
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:31:31 +0100
From: Robert Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dear M. Plantade,
Perhaps we should continue this debate privately, or over lunch in Paris,
if you live here. I do not accept any definition of philology that ex
>Perhaps we should continue this debate privately, or over lunch in Paris,
>if you live here.
Dear MM. Plantade and Dyer
By all means have your discussion over lunch in Paris, but please don't
withdraw your e-mail exchanges on this subject from mantovano. This is
fascinating! No doubt "cette ques
on 14/11/2001 6:45 pm, you wrote:
>> Perhaps we should continue this debate privately, or over lunch in Paris,
>> if you live here.
>
> Dear MM. Plantade and Dyer
>
> By all means have your discussion over lunch in Paris, but please don't
> withdraw your e-mail exchanges on this subject from man
I do agree with Simon - please don't withdraw to a café in Paris. As
someone who is not professionally involved in the Classics, but simply
(having a little Latin) wants to try and enjoy them as straightforward
reader it is fascinating to hear the complexities that might be
revealed as one becomes
half Of Patrick Roper
Sent: 12 November 2001 18:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: VIRGIL: pronunciation of Virgil
Many thanks for these interesting and helpful comments. My own
favourite from Shakespeare is "Much as the waves march towards the
pebbled shore" where the
; Mon,
19 Nov 2001 18:53:30 GMT
X-Authentication-Warning: wilsonwork.com: wilsonwk set sender to [EMAIL
PROTECTED] using -f
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:22:07 +
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Leofranc Holford-Strevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: VIRG
A brief word of thanks to Robert Dyer and Emmanuel Plantade for taking the
trouble to spell out in such careful detail their thoughts on the
pronunciation of Virgil's hexameters. I won't attempt to comment on either
post, for the question is altogether beyond me (and indeed even EP calls
himself a
<< message forwarded by listowner >>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:05:57 +0100
From: Robert Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Emmanuel Plantade's reply is extremely interesting, and I will enjoy trying
out
the new theory. I suspect that if it is correct it will end up by saying
something similar to, but perha
The Romans did not even write single words;
>they wrote in continuous breath-group units (separated by punctuation
>reflecting the importance of the pause) that Fraenkel and I both happen to
>call
>"cola".
A small correction: if 'Romans' refers to Roman writers in the Augustan Age
and before, the
<< message forwarded by listowner >>
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:29:39 +0100
From: Robert Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thank you, Philip. I regretted not mentioning inscriptions the moment after I
punched the send button. But I actually did not know about the Gallus and
contemporary papyri. I have look
<< message forwarded by listowner >>
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:49:57 +0100
From: Robert Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I am struck by another humbling piece of ignorance in a field I am meant to
know
about. Do we have any Latin papyri from the Piso/Philodemus library at
Herculaneum? Or is it all like P
Let me return to where I started this thread from. It is nearly 50
years since my last Latin lesson and I cannot say I enjoyed Virgil, or
his language, very much in those distant schooldays. However, my
interest has been rejuvenated and, 'having a little Latin' I am now
enjoying some quality time
Patrick Roper schrieb:
> Since my objective is to enjoy what Virgil wrote and try to reach up
> to his mind, is it better to carry on with what I know in terms of
> pronunciation, or try to change? And if I do carry on with what I
> know, will I be missing much? Can the essence of Virgil adequat
Hans Zimmerman said: "of course nobody is going to feedback the last
one (about pronunciation)."
Well first, Hans, I found your reply most interesting and useful and I
was intending to reply (that's what they all say!). Much of what you
write, though, I fully accept and would not, in any case, be
Patrick Roper schrieb:
> One of the problems, I imagine, is that the Latin that was still in
> spoken use until the late Middle Ages had changed substantially from
> Classical Latin
(first: thank you,)
the changes of pronunciation of c (from k to ts) might have been in early
Emperors time (Kai
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Hans Zimmermann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Patrick Roper schrieb:
>
>> One of the problems, I imagine, is that the Latin that was still in
>> spoken use until the late Middle Ages had changed substantially from
>> Classical Latin
>
>(first: thank you,)
>
>the chang
<< message forwarded by listowner, David Wilson-Okamura >>
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:16:36 +0100
From: Robert Dyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thank you for the reference to Professor Stroh's reading (with the Iliad at
the same site). I am listening to it as I type. It has made me conscious
that I would
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