[PEN-L:7433] Re: Extremely important article in China's Peoples's Daily (fwd)

A Hong Kong Chinese language newspaper, Singtao Daily, filed the following report in Chinese which I translate: Chinese military strategic experts feel that the NATO bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade revealed a US and NATO testing of a larger scheme against China. China needs to be prop

[PEN-L:7431] "Strobe" Talbott

I've been trying to find out a little about the early years of "Strobe Talbott" in Dayton, Ohio. From what I can gather so far, he was a rich kid by Dayton standards. He then went, to yes Doug, Yale and the rest is more or less on record. For you Canadians who are reading this, Talbott is the g

[PEN-L:7435] Re: Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

On Friday, May 28, 1999 at 18:33:01 (-0400) Doug Henwood writes: >J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote: > >> First let me say that I think your review of >>Harvey is perfectly reasonable. I have published >>a bunch of stuff on dynamics within complicated >>ecological-economic and spatial hierarchie

[PEN-L:7436] Re: e: Liquidated damages for slavery

The wrongs have been many. Native Americans, Africans made chattle, underpaid workers . Not all have suffered alike, but the majority have been short changed for the benefit of the few. Concentrating on the wrongs done to specific groups tends to set group against group in making their clai

[PEN-L:7429] Re: Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote: > First let me say that I think your review of >Harvey is perfectly reasonable. I have published >a bunch of stuff on dynamics within complicated >ecological-economic and spatial hierarchies >(see button on my website for recent pubs for >those who are curious

[PEN-L:7434] Re: Re: Re: Liquidated damages for slavery

I don't believe in racial guilt. And I don't believe that any social group has a monopoly on virtue. My ancestors were poor scotish crofters. If they received any benefit from slavery, it was not apparent in their income. The point is that all past modes of production were based on exploitation

[PEN-L:7432] Re: Louise Arbour

Louise Arbour has close connections to the ruling liberal party, and is widely touted a forecoming appointee to the supreme court of canada. Original Message Follows From: Tom Lehman Any of the Canadians on Pen-L want to enlighten us about Louise Arbour. There is an interesting Canadia

[PEN-L:7430] Re: Re: Rebuilding + Repopulating Cities in America

Dean Rusk's son (of all people) has a book out on this. Also, Urban Habitat in San Francisco has some publications on it, and a political initiative to pull multicultural groups together on it. (415) 561-. Also, a Minnesota legislator, Myron Orfield has written about this, and is activel

[PEN-L:7420] Pickle workers put things in perspective

Slave-like conditions Impoverished farmworkers in North Carolina face conditions among the most oppressive in the United States. A statement by a grower near New Bern, quoted at FLOC¹s website, puts the slave-like conditions in perspective: "The North won the War on paper but we confederates actu

[PEN-L:7422] Re: Zeitgeist

Craven, Jim wrote: >What does it say about the Zeitgeist when we see over and over on national >TV in primetime, the Monster.Com add showing young children saying "I want a >brown nose", "I want to be under appreciated", "I want to be forced into >early retirement", "I want to be a yes man or yes

[PEN-L:7419] Re:...MICHEL CHOSSUDOVSKY

>-Original Message- >From: Harald Beyer-Arnesen <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> < >In a critical footnote to >the essay Reflections on NATO and Kosovo" (http://www.lbbs.org/shalomnp.htm) >Stephen R. Shalom (who both is strongly opposed to the NATO military >intervention, and against giving supp

[PEN-L:7418] Chinese policy change ?

-- Forwarded message -- Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:01:13 -0500 From: Erwin Marquit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Extremely important article in China's Peoples's Daily Erwin Marquit School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Minnesota 116 Church Street SE, M

[PEN-L:7461] Apparent Movement on Diplomatic Front

Stratfor Commentary 990528 2054gmt Apparent Movement on Diplomatic Front In surprising news out of Belgrade, Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic has reportedly accepted the basic principles of the G-8 proposal for peace in Kosovo and has agreed to

[PEN-L:7456] LOSING THE MORAL WAR - San Jose Mercury editorial

The San Jose Mercury News Friday, May 28, 1999 Editorial LOSING THE MORAL WAR President Clinton should be ashamed of the attacks on civilians Admittedly, the line separating the justifiable from the inexcusable in NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia is not clear

[PEN-L:7460] What is the real reason for NATO's bombing campaign?

NOTE: NATO spokespeople now claim to be bombing Kosovo to put a stop to ethnic cleansing by Serbia. Put aside for a moment the issue of whether the bombing has had this effect or whether it in fact _speeded up_ the expulsion of the Kosovars. The following chronology released by AFP today shows t

[PEN-L:7416] Re: Liquidated damages for slavery

Is this the same Max who told me to lighten up for telling a joke about him ? He can dish it out, but can he take it ? Charles Brown >>> Max Sawicky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 05/28/99 01:00AM >>> >>> Max wrote: >I want to be compensated by the descendants of Pharoah. >Think of the compound in

[PEN-L:7421] Footnote to J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Louis Proyect wrote: "I appreciate his excellent efforts through LBO at pressuring the US government and business interests into fair play." It will be several days or more before I can quite wrap my mind around this whole new spat between Doug and Lou and post on the crucial issues it opens --

[PEN-L:7415] Alert: No gold sales for ESAF!

ALERT: GOLD SALES FOR DEBT CANCELLATION - NOT FOR THE IMF'S "ESAF"! The U.S. Treasury Department plans to ask Congress very soon for authorization to sell part of the IMF’s stock of gold. Treasury and the IMF say that the proceeds would be used for debt relief, but in fact most of the money woul

[PEN-L:7410] Re: Rebuilding + Repopulating Cities in America (was Harvey...)

> I have no idea what the resolution looks like, but at present rebuilding > and repopulating urban areas and stopping (and better yet, reversing) > suburban sprawls in the United States would, I think, be good for both > cities and rural ecosystems. > Yoshie consequences of unrestricted suburban

[PEN-L:7409] Re: Re: Liquidated damages for slavery

The point is the living descendants' lives are impacted by history. Today's inequality is caused by the wrongs and inequalities of the past. Each generation's equality does not arise anew upon each generation. Calling the idea of such compensation ludicrous is an unsupported conclusory remark.

[PEN-L:7407] Re: Modest proposal to end the war

Wojtek, this is already happening in Ohio. The largest group of registered voters are the Independents. Followed by the Republicans. At this point things don't look good for the Democrats. This in a state that was trending Democrat before Clinton and the neo-democrat policy cabal. One thing t

[PEN-L:7408] Re: Re: Capitalist Trade

Seth, I'm holding You don't think the French fur traders were not out to accumulate capital and did not "commodify and labor"? They were and they did. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Seth Sandronsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date:

[PEN-L:7405] Harvey, Leibniz & Marx

This is in response to some of Louis's replies to me yesterday. When I mentioned the possibility that elements of capitalism may have existed even in the ancient empires, and been a possible source of the class structures and resulting ecological damage associated with that initial separ

[PEN-L:7428] Re: Re: 9,000 PURPLE HEARTS - THAT'S AN ORDER

Weren't they wandering off to a bar? Jim Devine wrote: > Also, the giving of Purple > Hearts to the three soldiers who were captured by Serbian troops near the > border of Macedonian at the beginning of the current Holy Human Rights > Crusade has been criticized because not one of them was wound

[PEN-L:7411] Re: Rebuilding + Repopulating Cities in America

On Friday, May 28, 1999 at 15:22:51 (-0400) Michael Hoover writes: >... >consequences of unrestricted suburban growth include among other things,... Very interesting stuff. What would you recommend for reading on these topics? Bill

[PEN-L:7403] SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT

Please feel free to reprint and redistribute. Sunday Journal, Washington DC, May 30, 1999 SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT Robert Naiman Memorial Day finds us at war again, with Yugoslavia and Iraq. The death toll from NATO bombing climbs, as NATO bombs hospitals and embassies by predictable

[PEN-L:7427] Re: Re: Re: RE: Harvey, Leibniz & Marx

I wrote: >>If I remember correctly, Levins and Lewontin's discussion in THE DIALECTICAL BIOLOGIST does not employ the concept of contradictions to understand non-human nature. So we might say that there are _no_ contradictions (structurally-based conflicts) within non-human nature, a pretty large

[PEN-L:7426] Re: Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

>Louis Proyect wrote: >>As I said, this is no longer about O'Connor. It is about you and me.<< Doug answers: >Which is deeply boring to the spectators, no doubt, and which is why it should end.< A basic rule for this list (and for any other) is that everyone should always assume that there's som

[PEN-L:7425] Re: Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Charles writes: >So, if we were a jury deciding whether the Mayas were an example of indignenous Americans who were bad ecologists. we would have to say we don't have enough evidence to find them guilty, no ? < To my mind, the key question is not whether or not one or another group of indigenous

[PEN-L:7424] from SLATE

from Scott Shuger's column in SLATE, May 28, 1999, copyright Microsoft: >A front-page LAT [LA TIMES] story reports that of the 26 new comedies and dramas in the fall line-ups of the four largest broadcast networks--CBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox--not one features a minority in a leading role. And there a

[PEN-L:7423] Re: 9,000 PURPLE HEARTS - THAT'S AN ORDER

At 01:45 PM 5/28/99 -0400, you wrote: >9,000 PURPLE HEARTS - THAT'S AN ORDER > > But we are not fighting a war, according to Bill > Clinton, we are just "degrading" Slobbo's war > machine. OK. > > Then why in good God's name are we

[PEN-L:7459] Indictment of Milosevic a Cover for the Real Story -International Action Center

From: "iacenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 Subject: CLINTON SENDING 90,000 GROUND TROOPS TO YUGOSLAVIA Emergency Mobilization to Stop the War 39 West 14th St., #206 New York, NY 10011 (212) 633-6646 fax: (212) 633-2889 http://www.iacenter.org email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CLINT

[PEN-L:7402] 9,000 PURPLE HEARTS - THAT'S AN ORDER

9,000 PURPLE HEARTS - THAT'S AN ORDER By STEVE DUNLEAVY LEE GRAVES this week got some good news for his business, but not very good news for soldiers. "On Wednesday, we got the official order to

[PEN-L:7401] Re: chilling out

Michael, I am sorry O'Connor has left. I agree that we should avoid flaming one another. I understand your concern as listowner about keeping things within certain bounds, and I think you've done a good job at it. BTW, I shall be having a much lower profile on all these lists over the

[PEN-L:7400] Re: Panic

Doug, I don't know. Could be. They've certainly had worse leaders. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Doug Henwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 12:03 PM Subject: [PEN-L:7394] Panic >J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wro

[PEN-L:7398] Milosevic indictment a pretext for invasion

>From World Socialist Web Site WSWS : News & Analysis : Europe : The Balkan Crisis Milosevic indictment provides pretext for invasion By the editorial board 28 May 1999 The indictment of Slobodan Milosevic by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) is a politica

[PEN-L:7417] FW: Makah Whaling (fwd)

-Original Message- From: David Gene Lewis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Makah Whaling (fwd) Please distribute, thank you. In Spirit David -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 08:26:31 -0700 From

[PEN-L:7396] Re: Re: alternatives to Nato; Rubenstein

I think it would be better if such a force were unarmed rather than armed, better if it were lightly and defensively armed than heavily and offensively armed. The point of such a force should be to protect civilians and prevent violence, period. Not to impose political changes from the outside,

[PEN-L:7414] Re: Re: Re: alternatives to Nato; Rubenstein

Thanks for the interesting summary of Rubenstein. I shouldn't pass judgments until looking at the source, but the point about tradeoffs in bombing targets strikes me as disingenuous. The US was bombing heavily guarded Rumanian oilfields (I am told) under dubious circumstances (the expectation th

[PEN-L:7413] Re: Harvey

At 04:47 AM 28/05/99 -0400, Louis wrote: >That and the >charge that American Indians drove bison off cliffs, picked up by David >Harvey, I think they did, actually; it is an efficent hunting technique. My grandparents homesteaded such a spot. I agree the accusation of wanton waste is a projectio

[PEN-L:7412] Re: Re: RE: Harvey, Leibniz & Marx

At 08:54 AM 27/05/99 -0700, Jim D. wrote: >If I >remember correctly, Levins and Lewontin's discussion in THE DIALECTICAL >BIOLOGIST does not employ the concept of contradictions to understand >non-human nature. So we might say that there are _no_ contradictions >(structurally-based conflicts) wit

[PEN-L:7395] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Lou, First let me say that I think your review of Harvey is perfectly reasonable. I have published a bunch of stuff on dynamics within complicated ecological-economic and spatial hierarchies (see button on my website for recent pubs for those who are curious) and I agree that gettting off

[PEN-L:7394] Panic

J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote: >the moderate Milan Panic regime That's the guy who founded ICN Pharmaceuticals, right? The friend of Jerry Brown who had a troubled relation with U.S. securities law? What was he like as a head of state? Doug

[PEN-L:7392] Re: (Fwd) Guardian editorial: DISPLACED PEOPLE... HARASSED, BUT NO

Paul, Two points: 1) Apparently there is very hard evidence that for large numbers of those in the refugee camps there was a standard sequence of events: a) village or town shelled, b) door to door visits by Serbian troops or police or masked paramilitaries ordering the people to leav

[PEN-L:7406] Re: Capitalist Trade

French long lots are "feudal" and square-grids are "capitalistic"? Give me a break. The French long lots simply guarantee that everybody has access to the main transportation route, which was rivers in French North America. The idea is that people would be trading. Pretty capitali

[PEN-L:7391] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Louis Proyect wrote: >As I said, this is no longer about O'Connor. It is about you and me. Which is deeply boring to the spectators, no doubt, and which is why it should end. Doug

[PEN-L:7388] Modest proposal to end the war

While my respect for electoral politics approaches zero, methinks the process can be useful as a form of anti-war demonstration - a bit more effective than the street variety. The idea is simple - do not wait until 2000, start voting your disapproval with the Fifth-Column, Cruise-Missile Democrat

[PEN-L:7387] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

So, if we were a jury deciding whether the Mayas were an example of indignenous Americans who were bad ecologists. we would have to say we don't have enough evidence to find them guilty, no ? Charles Brown >>> "J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 05/28/99 11:10AM >>> Lou, I thin

[PEN-L:7389] J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Doug: >Is it apolitical to express shock and disapproval for your arrogant >dismissal of Jim O'Connor? Maybe so, maybe it's just bourgeois personalism >or some such failing. If it is, I plead guilty. But, as Bob Fitch says, >socialism should be social. Maybe there's something I don't get here. Ji

[PEN-L:7404] Zeitgeist

What does it say about the Zeitgeist when we see over and over on national TV in primetime, the Monster.Com add showing young children saying "I want a brown nose", "I want to be under appreciated", "I want to be forced into early retirement", "I want to be a yes man or yes woman" etc. Does this r

[PEN-L:7384] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Lou, I think that at this point cautious observers would have to conclude that we don't know for sure what happened to the Mayans. We are not even sure about how quickly the collapse happened, was it sudden or over a longer time period, and if the latter, how long? By now there is a very la

[PEN-L:7385] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Louis Proyect wrote: >>Breathtaking. >> >>Doug > >More apolitical sniping from Doug. Is it apolitical to express shock and disapproval for your arrogant dismissal of Jim O'Connor? Maybe so, maybe it's just bourgeois personalism or some such failing. If it is, I plead guilty. But, as Bob Fitch sa

[PEN-L:7383] Bring back the USSR

Jack Lessenberry is a liberal columnist for the Detroit Metrotimes, a weekly. CB Bring back the USSR! Jack Lessenberry was recently named a finalist in the Association of Alternative Ne

[PEN-L:7399] chilling out

Barkley suggested that I chill out. Jim O'Connor just left the list. I consider his departure a loss for all of us. I still maintain that we should abstain from personally attacking one another. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chico, CA 9

[PEN-L:7382] J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

>Breathtaking. > >Doug More apolitical sniping from Doug. It would probably be asking too much for him to investigate for himself who is closer to the truth on Mayan agriculture, Hughes--who I discovered is a regular CNS columnist, a scary thought--or Sharer. It is much easier to debase the conve

[PEN-L:7397] Pretty Villages, Pretty Flame

_Pretty Villages, Pretty Flame_ is a film by Srdjan Dragojevich. Cast: Dragan Bjelogrlic, Nikola Kojo, Nikola Pejakovich. This is a low budget Serbian film about the Bosnian civil war that was criticized for being Serb propaganda and a "fascist" film. It is a strong anti-war film that is deeply

[PEN-L:7381] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Louis Proyect wrote: >I now >understand the real reason O'Connor rejected my articles on the American >Indian that Buhle had submitted to him. I was casting pearls before swine. Breathtaking. Doug

[PEN-L:7393] RE: cut it out!

I admire the work and contributions of both Lou and Doug. Sometimes I see stuff on pen-l that gets me going, but then again I remember this person is writing on pen-l and caring enough to write on this medium rather than on some net full of academic philistines who care or know nothing about the k

[PEN-L:7390] cut it out!

Louis and Doug are two of my favorite people. I wish that they would turn their intelligence to other things than sniping at each other. Thank god, that others have not rushed in to take sides. This all began with an accidental posting. Drop it now. Jim O'Conner, David Harvey and other leftis

[PEN-L:7380] Re: Arbourg , unfortuantely

Paul is that her maiden name, her married name or her stage name? Does she have any votes? Where does her money come from? A certain ethnic group? Your email pal, Tom L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This is getting rediculous. Everytine I try to send a message it > seems to go adaft, away,

[PEN-L:7379] Action Against Iraq Escalating

Friday, May 28, 1999 MIDEAST Overshadowed by Kosovo War, Action Against Iraq Escalating By JOHN DANISZEWSKI, Times Staff Writer AIRO--While

[PEN-L:7378] Class-action Lawsuit filed to protect Thousands of SUNY Employee Jobs (fwd)

***NEWS BULLETIN*** CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT FILED IN FEDERAL COURT TO PROTECT THOUSANDS OF SUNY EMPLOYEE JOBS FROM STATE "CONTRACTING-OUT" (TERMINATION!) A class-action lawsuit on behalf of thousands of professional employees in the State University of New York (SUNY) and the future o

[PEN-L:7377] [Fwd: [BRC-NEWS] An Open Letter to Dr. Mary Frances Berry]

[Moderator: More info on the situation: ] What: Open Letter to Dr. Mary Frances Berry From: The African American Programmers at KPFA Radio May 21, 1999 Dear Dr. Berry, We, the African American programmers at KPFA radio have been active participants in the ong

[PEN-L:7376] J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Doug: >I'm the first to admit I don't know the literature, and you probably don't >either. As a matter of fact, I do know the literature on indigenous peoples much more than J. Donald Hughes, based on the evidence. Anybody who has a glancing familarity with Maya scholarship knows that the charge

[PEN-L:7375] Cox Report

10/16-18/94 - SecDef Perry and Senators Inouye, Nunn, Stevens, and Warner goes to China for three days of meetings with top government officials and the PLA. Perry pushed for greater transparency in China's defense spending and military strategy. Perry also suggested that if China would agree to h

[PEN-L:7374] India/Pakistan War

Friday May 28 1999 Pakistan shoots down jet fighter AGENCIES in New Delhi and Islamabad Pakistan said it had shot down two Indian jet fighters over Kashmir yesterday. India admitted one had been hit, but

[PEN-L:7289] (Fwd) 2135 ECONOMY: Chaudhry pledges to cut Fiji's food bills

Some interesting things are happening in Fiji with the election of a Labour Government. They have reinstated several hundred employees sacked from the privatised Nadi International Airport, and are facing down rumblings that threaten to repeat the military coup that overthrew the last Labour G

[PEN-L:7371] Re: J. Donald Hughes on Mayan collapse

Louis Proyect wrote: >[Just as I suspected, J. Donald Hughes's CNS article "The Classic Maya >Collapse" was based on dated scholarship. Actually, Hughes's article turns >out to be impressions of his vacation in Mexico, not much more substantial >than my "London Calling" post. More recent scholars