At 19:03 11/04/00 -0700, you wrote:
Chris, the article you quoted sounded like a gloss on the work of William
Greider (a liberal journalist who writes for the U.S.-based NATION
magazine). For example, see his April 10th article in the archive of the
NATION at: http://www.TheNation.com/
Jim
"Good review"? I, for one, will not trust your friend again on anything!
My friend (whose opinion I trust on just about everything) had this to say
about the book:
Yes, I've actually read the whole book. It's okay in some ways, but his
geographical determinism tends to undercut his
Jim Devine wrote:
I believe that his hatred of populism goes beyond his explicit use
of categories. Doug has a lot of good quotes from old Rudi which
indicate where his loyalties lie.
My two favorites, which I'm doing from memory, but they're very close:
"The best thing [about the SE Asian
Chris Burford [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/11/00 07:12PM
At 15:14 11/04/00 -0400, you wrote:
What's behind the debt crisis
By Wadi'h Halabi
The fundamental cause
What is behind this phenomenon? The answer may be surprising to some. In
the last analysis, the problem is that there is "too much"
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and
Dear Friends:
A web site is now up and running with information, images and analysis
of
the "Water
War" in Cochabamba, Bolivia.
Massive popular struggle have just ousted the Bechtel affiliate that had
bought the water system, in a privatization program pushed by the World
Bank and corruply
At 09:34 AM 4/12/00 -0500, you wrote:
The trick is to reverse cause and effect, and by attacking the effects
(which exist purely in the superstructure of rarified scholastic dispute)
we can soothe feelings wounded by our inability to oppose effectively the
victories of racism and imperialism
Carrol Cox wrote:
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
material defeats the movements of the
"Ricardo Duchesne" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 10:23AM
Simply saying that one can, as Diamond does, draw a rough line accross
the African continent to distinguish "white" Africa from "black" Africa
proper. Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Libyans and others in the
Northern areas are
Yes, the radical, communist term for "Eurocentrism" is "White Supremacy"
CB
Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 10:34AM
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:26:58 -0400
From: "Charles Brown" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:18012] Re: guns, germs, steel
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is better to
"Ricardo Duchesne" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 12:42PM
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is better to
leave this subject untouched.
___
CB: Paranoia , in the sense of irrational and unfounded fear, is not an accurate way
to describe the US on
Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy, such that one
part of their work is anti-racist, but
And when they accuse anti-racist authors *whom* *they* *have* *not*
*read* of racism, they look *really* *stupid*...
Brad DeLong
Actually, nobody has charged Jared Diamond with racism, only geographical
determinism. For that matter the review that Chris Kromm forwarded made the
explicit point
Thanks for reminding us of another progressive 'capitalist'
decision!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
MONDAY, APRIL 10
Contact: Jason Mark, Global Exchange, 415-255-7296 x 230 or Deborah James
510.290.0573
In a Stunning Concession to Protesters Just Days Before the Launch of a
National
Brad De Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 12:33PM
Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy,
I agree; anti-eurocentrism carries the danger of post-modernism. I would
add, however, not every critique of eurocentricism should inevitably
lead to post-modernism. Samir Amin has an excellent book called
_Eurocentricism_; Samir is not a post-modernist; he is a marxist; or
GAyatri Spivak,
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:49:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Ketterer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Fwd: Said Lecture: April 18
Mine,
in case you have time next week, this looks
interesting...
Jim
Note: forwarded message attached.
"eurocentrism" needs
to be retired from our vocabulary, since it acts only to deflect
attention from the ills it pretends to name.
Carrol
Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism
is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it)
seesm
Term 'eurocentrism' is problematic although conception that eurocentrism
is colonizer's model of world (as jim blaut, no postmodernist, calls it)
seesm generally agreeable. Term can, however, flatten complexity of
european culture and history that includes peripheral regions, social
classes,
Nice hit-and-run job. Don't suppose you'd actually take the time to defend
your comment?
CK
- Original Message -
From: Ricardo Duchesne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 10:31 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:18004] Good review of "guns, germs, steel"
"Good
I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I
have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly.
The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my
opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critical
criticism.
Naming calling lets off frustration, but silencing an "opponent" is
a pretty hollow victory. And advances the cause not at all.
And then, there are those who delight in disrupting left discourse,
with shouting denunciations of ill defined crimes, that the perpetrator
couldn't possible
Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
1. A belief that the world's population can be meaningfully divided into
groups, based on something called race.
2. A belief that based on that division, and an implicit system of
values, some of those groups are superior
There are two questions here. One: Is the Asiatic Mode of Production a valid
scientific view or not.
Two: Does the concept spring from something called Eurocentrism.
The first question is important. The second is irrelevant.
Frank's effort is doomed by his inadequate grasp of history. While I
Look, what your best friend is supposed to have said is not even a
"review", but a silly emotional reaction about agency, or whatever he
thinks that term means. And yes, in response to your personal
e-mail, waking up to another snow fall
in mid-April leaves me with little patience for a
Spivak should just settle down and stop feeling guilty about her big
western salary; I mean, at least she uses some of it for her two per year trips
to India in her struggle against eurocentrism.
I agree; anti-eurocentrism carries the danger of post-modernism. I would
add, however, not
Rod Hay wrote:
I think, I agree with everything that Carrol says. It is a point that I
have tried to make several times, although much less elegantly.
The responses that I have seen so far seem to miss the point (in my
opinion) of Carrol's post and of Marx and Engels' critique of critical
Rod Hay wrote:
Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
1. A belief that the world's population can be meaningfully divided into
groups, based on something called race.
2. A belief that based on that division, and an implicit system of
values, some of those
The critique of eurocentrism has been around a lot longer and independently
of postmodern anything. Only those who only heard of "eurocentrism" in the
last ten years or who only know of it through pomo would emphasize a link
between pomo and the critique of eurocentrism. Much pomo itself is
New York Times, April 12, 2000
U.S. Labor on Offensive Against China Trade Deal
By DAVID STOUT
WASHINGTON, April 12 -- Worried that doing business with China will crowd
American workers out of the global economy, thousands of union men and
women flocked to Capitol Hill today to condemn the
Not so new. The separate but equal noise has been around for some time. Read
some of the late nineteenth century imperialist literature of writers like
Rider Haggard.
Rod
Doug Henwood wrote:
Rod Hay wrote:
Lou: I think that there are two senses in which the word racism is used.
1. A
racism and race exploitation are part of capitalism. any serious
anti-capitalist struggle must deal with racism and race exploitation (and
any serious anti-racist struggle must deal with capitalism). the
anti-eurocentric project is a serious part of work to identify the
ideological support
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
Spivak should just settle down and stop feeling guilty about her big
western salary; I mean, at least she uses some of it for her two per
year trips to India in her struggle against eurocentrism.
And wrote some classic books on neocolonialism. And
Dear Mike, Lou, Michael, and Doug:
Could you please post this? Many thanks!
Tom
===
Dear Friends:
A web site is now up and running with information, images and analysis of
the "Water War" in Cochabamba, Bolivia.
Massive popular struggle have just ousted the Bechtel affiliate that
Thank you Lou for your article about Crane World.
It happens that Pablo Trapero is a good friend of mine, a very creative 26
years old man. It has been admirable too the tenacity of Pablo in filming
this his first long film that I know from the very beginning. There is
something of the italian
this is quite irrelevant to the point. a lot of liberals who call
themselves marxists are writing in the magazines that benefit from the
system, and filling their pockets. most of them have secure positions in
universities. they get western salaries. this is NOT the ONLY problem of
Spivak...this
Carrol Cox wrote:
that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
material defeats the movements of the '60s Karl and Frederick
described this sort of maneuver rather well in *The German
Ideology*. If
Ted Winslow [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/10/00 07:11PM
Charles Brown wrote:
__
CB: Does this contradict what I said ? Humans have a higher degree of tool
development than animals before the "master/slave" relationship develops.
Hunters and gatherers have much higher tool development
Ted Winslow:
An important psychological factor in each case is "compensation" in the form
of disguised satisfaction of motives that would generate intolerable anxiety
if expressed and pursued consciously. The unconscious motivation is
murderous, sadistic hate. In each of the cases above, this
Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 06:24PM
Ted Winslow:
An important psychological factor in each case is "compensation" in the form
of disguised satisfaction of motives that would generate intolerable anxiety
if expressed and pursued consciously. The unconscious motivation is
Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
Rod
--
Rod Hay
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The History of Economic Thought Archive
At 10:13 12/04/00 -0400,
[Chris]
Quite. A typical capitalist crisis of "overproduction". That is,
overproduction relative to the limited purchasing power of the market, and
in particular the impoverished masses of the world.
_
Charles B: But what of the FROP and inability to valorize
Rod Hay wrote:
Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
Could you give a more specific example?
Doug
Louis asks:
Wouldn't Prozac help?
It might. According to the theory, it certainly "helped" the minds that
invented it. And from the perspective of the persons treated, it's
obviously much better than a lobotomy.
Ted
--
Ted WinslowE-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 09:34 12/04/00 -0500, Carrol wrote:
The ongoing critique in scholastic circles of "euro-centrism"
more and more appears as a member of that large family of
ideological persuasions generally called "post-modernism,"
defined here as a purely academic compensation for the
material defeats
Charles Brown asks:
CB: Or vigorous dancing or sports and wine ?
Yes. Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities.
Ted
--
Ted WinslowE-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 13:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: MichaelP [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: INFO:Bolivia menu: Bechtel spin plus earlier piece
(Thanks JanetE)
Bechtel's response (below) reads as if they have not really pulled out
of
the privatization contract, but rather "are in urgent discussions
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:47:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunder Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Brenner debate? (fwd)
~~
Doug Henwood wrote:
Rod Hay wrote:
Mat. How do you identify eurocentrism? In my experience, in most cases,
all it indicates is that the person throwing the epithet, doesn't like
what is being said but can't articulate a rational argument against it.
Could you give a more specific
In a message dated 4/12/00 7:50:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities.
As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a
JKSCHW wrote:
Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities.
As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a uncomfortably close
perspectives--if you are close enough to see it. you are
The critique of eurocentrism has been around a lot longer and
independently
ofpostmodern anything. Only those who only heard of "eurocentrism" in
the
last ten years or who only know of it through pomo would emphasize a link
between pomo and the critique of eurocentrism. Much pomo itself is
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: Idealist DiversionfromAnti-r
Greetings Economists,
Ted Winslow goes on at length about understanding the psychology of things to whit, then JKS replies briefly (in his briefs no doubt),
JKS,
As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a
racism and race exploitation are part of capitalism. any serious
anti-capitalist struggle must deal with racism and race exploitation (and
any serious anti-racist struggle must deal with capitalism). the
anti-eurocentric project is a serious part of work to identify the
ideological support
G'day Ted and Justin,
Well, I've seen quite a few football mobs in my time, and, whilst a large
skinhead or 'bovver-boy' contingent was ever present, the violent mob
mentality was (a) not inevitable (it only took hold sometimes, albeit
predictably so if traditional rivals were avisiting - eg
classes, marginalized and stigmatized peoples. Simplistic inversion
positing europe as 'evil' and turning colonialist model on its head
remains eurocentric since focus remains on Europe (and lets third
world elites off hook). Michael Hoover
historically speaking, there were
G'day Mine,
as Marx said in the Communist Manifesto, working classes should
"settle accounts with their own bourgeoisie first". Evidence is Soviet
and Chinese communism, and other anti-imperialist struggles around
the globe.
That's old evidence, Mine. How'd you reckon a working class
[Among the steady procession of amazing articles produced by the American
Socialist in the 1950s is this two-parter dealing with the oppression of
the American Indian from October, 1956. I would love to been able to ask
either Harry Braverman or Bert Cochran what factored into their thinking
when
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