While electoral changes may not be as great as the west would like to
believe, some detail is emerging about changes to the structure of power in
Yugoslavia.
Sky News reports that the heads of a number of industries have been sacked,
and that all civil servants serving the federal parliament
- Original Message -
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Serbs have had access to CNN and other
Western media, the "independent" media funded by Western
philanthropists, etc. Maybe, many of them have too easily bought
into the Western media magic. So
Ken wrote:
The majority may not like Milosevic but they have given his party more
than a majority in recent elections. That is why you are seeing a
Western-generated uprising. Interesting that some leftists cheer the
burning of parliament buildings when the supposed aim is to impose
democracy.
En relación a [PEN-L:2803] Yugoslavia to fSU and Chile,
el 8 Oct 00, a las 13:29, Seth Sandronsky dijo:
Ken wrote:
The majority may not like Milosevic but they have given his party
more
than a majority in recent elections. That is why you are seeing a
Western-generated uprising.
Building Protests in Support of The Palestinians-
This forward is to the Action Alert page for the AAADC,, which is
beginning to list the demonstrations being built around the United
States. In addition, one should feel free to contact the mosques
in your community, to find out if other
I thought I detected a number of other, smaller problems, but these were
the biggies.
Comments?
Peter
It feels to me as if we've read two different books written by two authors
with the same name. I can't remember any concern with Marxist economics per
se, but more with the narrative how
Burford:
The changes in the leadership of economic institutions may suggest that in
class terms there was a revolt by a coalition of class forces, (certainly
fostered by the West) against a transitional form of oligarch capitalism
linked with the SPS.
Kostunica:
"Communism is falling. It is
None of this requires assuming the population were dupes or fantasists. In
fact, it assumes that their basic motivation is to reject Milsoevic who
tried to dupe and manipulate them. The West may have threatened and bomb
them, but in the end the population may have decided that was less of an
Yesterday (Fri., Oct. 6), we had a demonstration in Columbus, Ohio
against the Israeli massacre repression of Palestinians. The demo
was organized by a local group Coalition for Palestine, and about 200
people came. The anger and frustration of diasporic Palestinians
(against Israel,
www.tenc.net
[Emperor's Clothes]
"For Germans it was 'an obligation based on history.' to back the push for
democracy [said Fischer.]...
''Der Spiegel also reported that Fischer, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine
Albright and some G-8 foreign ministers brought the Yugoslav opposition
Hello Lou,
To me, the interesting point about the snippet from The Independent
regarding sanctions was that up until the coup, and even afterwards, up
until Kostunica was sworn in, the US was announcing that it would lift
sanctions immediately (as a way of encouraging people to support the
Nathan:
- Original Message -
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Serbs have had access to CNN and other
Western media, the "independent" media funded by Western
philanthropists, etc. Maybe, many of them have too easily bought
into the Western media
I thought that Sachs was one of them! What happened?
CHeers, Ken Hanly
You were misinformed...
Ever since I met him in 1980, Jeff has said that the World Bank was
designed for a world in which sovereign governments were
credit-constrained, that we don't live in such a world, and that the
G'day Brad,
Two responses come to mind. Firstly, how would you define 'nationalist
thug' such that the utterances and actions of US presidents don't qualify
them as just that,
Well, some of the actions of U.S. presidents *do* qualify.
and, secondly, are all nationalist words and actions much
At 10:20 08/10/00 -0400, you wrote:
Burford:
The changes in the leadership of economic institutions may suggest that in
class terms there was a revolt by a coalition of class forces, (certainly
fostered by the West) against a transitional form of oligarch capitalism
linked with the SPS.
Valuable report to contrast with the allegations that the Yugoslav media
were biased against the opposition.
Judging from the article published in the Independent on 6th October by
Timothy Garton-Ash, Kostunica himself may believed he was fiercely
independent.
In late 1998, we talked in
En relación a [PEN-L:2811] Forwarded from Greg Elich (Just give,
el 8 Oct 00, a las 10:30, Greg Elich dijo:
When I was in Yugoslavia, it was clear to me that the left had great
support. There were certainly plenty of supporters of the right as
well, but their strength did not appear to
- Original Message -
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You know, Nathan, I really wish that you were absolutely right and
many of us here were utterly wrong. How wonderful it would be then
to savor "one of the most massive popular resistances ever seen"!
At 09:05 AM 10/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
But to the extent that they [Tudjman and Milosevic] were essentially
collaborators, why any socialist would even think of defending Milosevic
given his mirroring of neofascist practice in neighboring Croatia -
whether just in practice or in direct
- Original Message -
From: Robert Naiman
To: Robert Naiman
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: [waggers] PLEASE ACT: Abolition of IMF/WB "user fees" on primary
health and education blocked by U.S. Treasury
Many of you are -- hopefully -- aware that one of
the most
Burford:
What is Kostunica likely to mean by "communism"?
The same thing that Bill Clinton, the CIA and the NY Times mean.
Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Burford wrote:
Valuable report to contrast with the allegations that the Yugoslav media
were biased against the opposition.
Judging from the article published in the Independent on 6th October by
Timothy Garton-Ash, Kostunica himself may believed he was fiercely
independent.
It is too bad
[Jack Smith was managing editor of the Guardian newspaper in the United
States during the 1960s and 70s.]
COUP IN YUGOSLAVIA
By Jack A. Smith
President Clinton characterized last weeks right-wing coup in
Yugoslavia against the government of President Slobodan Milosovic as a
great triumph for
Greg Elich wrote:
When I was in Yugoslavia, it was clear to me that the left had great
support.
what is the "left" in Serbia? That word has a different meaning in
different contexts. does it mean support for Milosevic? or support for
socialism and internationalism?
Kostunica:
"Communism is falling. It is just a matter of a few hours."
not only did communism not prevail in Serbia (as Chris B. notes), but it
seems to me that K is highly optimistic. (Of course, it's probably simply
excessive rhetoric in the heat of the moment, with no real meaning, but
Nathan writes: The only "I told you so" I could aim would not be at you
or other critical defenders of Milosevic but at those who argued the Kosovo
war fatally undermined opposition to Milosevic.
I don't think anyone said "fatally." at the time of the US/NATO war against
Serbia, they
Jim Devine:
what is the "left" in Serbia? That word has a different meaning in
different contexts. does it mean support for Milosevic? or support for
socialism and internationalism?
I believe that Greg is referring to the kinds of people who organized a
tour for him, Michael Parenti and other
Jim Devine:
If by "communism," K means the state rule by a
monopolistic political party that uses "welfare state" programs to cement
its leadership and and state-owned property to feather its leaders' and
their friends' nests (sort of like the Mexican PRI in his heyday), I don't
think the
The old joke that leftists has predicted 20 of the last 2 recessions has
probably gone stale -- from pure accuracy. However it is even truer that
they have predicted 200 of the last 2 crashes.
Eugene Coyle wrote:
Ireland and the Irish Question:
A Collection of Writings by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels,
International Publishers, 1972.
Easy to skim and choose as you need.
Regards,
Charles Andrews
Book site is at http://www.laborrepublic.org
NY Times, Oct. 8, 2000
THE SANCTIONS
Easing of Some Restrictions by West Could Happen Soon
By JOSEPH KAHN
WASHINGTON, Oct. 7 Disastrous civil wars, onerous sanctions and corrupt
misrule turned Yugoslavia from the most open and developed nation in the
old Communist orbit into the sick man of
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff written more than
five years old, or because he overlooks Marx? And shouldn't it be "continuous"?
-Original Message-
From: Peter Dorman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 10/8/00 1:06:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
'm afraid the Yugoslav model of market socialism federalism, *in
the course of devolution*, themselves laid the material and
ideological grounds for the dissolution of Yugoslavia, as much as the
IMF's
G'day Gene,
I'm not subscribed from work - so would you mind passing on this attempt at
a response to your question?
You ask:
What are the recent developments that have contributed to the currency
meltdown in New Zealand and Australia?
They are two commodity-dependent states selling into
Rob Schaap wrote:
Well, everyone has a pet explanation. The appallingly glamorous David Hale
made a big splash when he smugly informed us we were a recalcitrantly 'old
economy'. No-one quite new what that meant, but they sold the Ozzie down a
whole cent over the next two days. That was
Mat asked why this is surprising. Well, besides Marx, David Wells,
celebrated in the Harvard University David A. Wells prize, wrote an almost
identical description in the 19th century. Many others followed in his wake.
Peter Dorman wrote:
"...the young Schumpeter, writing before World War
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Belgrade, 6.10.2000.
In the night of 5th and 6th October, an organized attack of rightist forces
was carried out on the headquarters of New Communist Party of Yugoslavia
(NKPJ) and it's youth organisation the League of Yugoslavian Communist
Youth (SKOJ).
On that
Make that Marx, Adam Smith, and Alfred Marshall, for starters...
Peter
"Forstater, Mathew" wrote:
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff written more than
five years old, or because he overlooks Marx? And shouldn't it be "continuous"?
-Original Message-
Hi Rob:
All fair enough. Just doing my bit to make sure we don't all end up taking
some effectively racist position, that's all. The KLA was a fundamentally
tainted piece of work, but we have to be careful not to jump to conclusions
about Kosovars and KLA soldiers in particular or Albanians
I'm sorry to see Milosevich go.
In God's name, why? Don't *ever* be sorry to see nationalist thugs
go. Were you sorry to see Tudjman go? Were you sorry to see Mobutu
go? Were you sorry to see Galtieri go?
Brad DeLong
==
Then we shouldn't be sorry to see the nationalist thugs at
A few years ago, Paul Romer was on the cover of, I think it was "Forbes, Jr.",
apparently a special Forbes Mag for college kids. The picture was accompanied by
something like "Future Nobel Prize?" As part of the article, there were a few
paragraphs each on Keynes, Schumpeter, Marshall, and I
I should have noted that the text of the "boxes" on each of the famed economists
accompanying the article were by Romer, not the author of the article.
I wrote:
A few years ago, Paul Romer was on the cover of, I think it was "Forbes, Jr.",
apparently a special Forbes Mag for college kids. The
En relación a [PEN-L:2836] NY Times LA Times: "It's Economy ,
el 8 Oct 00, a las 16:47, Yoshie Furuhashi dijo:
... Milosevic, but for
the Serbian working class rural masses Western geopolitics, could
have been a Kwasniewski:
* New York Times, October 8, 2000
Polish Leader Is the
I said:
If by "communism," [Kostunica] means the state rule by a monopolistic
political party that uses "welfare state" programs to cement its
leadership and and state-owned property to feather its leaders' and their
friends' nests (sort of like the Mexican PRI in [its] heyday), I don't
On 6th October I wrote
Yesterday the events in Belgrade were no doubt far from totally
spontaneous, even though it may take ten years to learn all the
connections, including those to foreign funders. The seizure of the
television station is most unlikely to have been just a spontanous
Jim D. wrote:
It employes CIA analysts who seem remarkably successful at figuring
out who is hostile to capitalist prerogatives. Milosevic was seen
as interfering with the process at work in Eastern Europe, so he
had to be eradicated.
However, it's a mistake to fall for Mao's fallacy, i.e.,
Mat wrote:
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff written more
than
five years old, or because he overlooks Marx? And shouldn't it be
"continuous"?
Peter quotes Krugman:
"...the young Schumpeter, writing before World War I, was the first
major economist to recognize
Jim Devine:
I'm sorry, but this use of the words "dialectical understanding" reminds me
of a (poor) novel about the Spanish Civil War, in which a CP type uses the
term "dialectics" to mean a double cross.
Isn't that "Farewell to a Trotskyite"? I believe this was discussed in Alan
Wald's
Change is usually the result of a dialectical combination of internal and
external factors.
Chris Burford
Watch out for that dialectics stuff. It was what led to the Moscow trials
and the murder of Andres Nin.
Louis Proyect
Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Krugman's remarks on technological change are remarkable, in both their
ignorance and elitism. Why do folks on this list take this guy so
seriously?
michael yates
Jim Devine wrote:
Mat wrote:
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff written more
than
five years old,
In a message dated 10/8/00 12:08:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I tend towards the beautiful soul position, but at least I admit it.
Once upon at time,w hen there was a movement inw hich they were important,
Marxists had to worry about "dirty hands." Brecht wrote "The
On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Louis Proyect wrote:
Cheering the downfall of Milosevic is tantamount to cheering for Nato and
the IMF.
The hell it is. The MiloMafia made a killing off of hastily-privatized
state enterprises, dabbled in vicious wars in other countries, and went
through a big song and
Nor in the effort to oppose ones own imperialism should leftists
fail to address the problem that fascism may emerge with a left face
as well as a right face. In the turmoil of post socialist societies
in eastern Europe that is a particular danger. For example I regard
the quietness of
Mat wrote:
Klassic because, unlike most mainstreamers, he has read stuff
written more than
five years old, or because he overlooks Marx? And shouldn't it be
"continuous"?
Peter quotes Krugman:
"...the young Schumpeter, writing before World War I, was the first
major economist to recognize
Pen-l:
Bad and getting worse in the occupied territories and Arab East Jerusalem.
Seth
From: MER - NewsFlash [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "MER" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Cousin of Sen Lieberman Kidnapped in WB - Jewish Settler Attacks
Against Palestinians Escalating Fast
Greetings Economists,
I thought I would put up some references to embodiment in regard to
examining the role of affect in computing. I am referring to a comment that
Jim Devine made awhile back,
Jim,
I don't think that disembodiment (as far as I understand this concept) is
the full story,
First prize I think still goes to Stiglitz and Shapiro's "Equilibrium
Unemployment as a Worker Discipline Device" in the American Economic Review
where the term "reserve army" was used, with no mention of Marx in the article
or bibliography.
as they say, there's nothing new under the sun, so
Brad wrote,
No. For Paul Krugman "major economist" means someone who built a
useful model--like Ricardo. Marx's attempts at economic model
building as we see it were not successful--hence Samuelson's judgment
of Marx as a minor post-Ricardian.
For Paul Krugman, Marx is a sociologist...
At 20:22 08/10/00 -0400, you wrote:
Change is usually the result of a dialectical combination of internal and
external factors.
Chris Burford
Watch out for that dialectics stuff. It was what led to the Moscow trials
and the murder of Andres Nin.
Louis Proyect
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