Doug:
Here's a problem. As long as people's wages are rising
by n%, it's hard to make them upset that profits are
rising 1.5n%. American incomes have been polarizing for
over 25 years. Why has it never become a serious political
issue?
I believe the main problem, that is, your main problem
At 7:25 PM -0400 10/21/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Devine, James wrote:
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA took effect,
but are they higher relative to labor productivity?
That's not the issue.
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
--
Yoshie
*
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA took effect,
but are they higher relative to labor productivity?
That's not the issue.
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
--
Yoshie
-
all else equal, it wages fall relative to
Devine, James wrote:
[clip]
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
--
Yoshie
-
all else equal, if wages fall relative to labor productivity, the rate of
surplus-value rises. Or in econ-speak, unit labor costs fall.
Jim
The impact of
Carrol writes:
The impact of the race to the bottom on u.s. conditions is
economic
only indirectly, and for that reason economic statistics can
not really
identify that impact. That is in part because what affects labor
resistance is the _belief_ in runaway jobs. If the workers in a
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Good luck explaining the concept.
productivity isn't very hard: you can talk about the effectiveness of labor.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Doug:
Good luck
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Good luck explaining the concept.
=
Why Wojtek, I didn't know you lurked on pen-l.
:-
Ian
Eubulides wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Good luck explaining the concept.
=
Why Wojtek, I didn't know you lurked on pen-l.
Here's a problem.
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Doug:
Good luck explaining the concept.
productivity isn't very hard: you can talk about the effectiveness of labor.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 5:59 PM -0400 10/22/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Good luck explaining the concept.
=
Why Wojtek, I didn't know you lurked on pen-l.
Here's a problem. As long as people's wages are rising by
On Wednesday, October 22, 2003 at 18:27:21 (-0400) Yoshie Furuhashi writes:
At 5:59 PM -0400 10/22/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
We should make wages relative to labor productivity an issue, though.
Good luck explaining the concept.
=
Why Wojtek, I didn't know you
I didn't get the time to read the whole dialogue about Doug's contribution, so I may
be repeating what someone else said:
But are progressives against rich-country farm subsidies?
I for one am against subsidies to rich-country farmers.
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA
- Original Message -
From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I didn't get the time to read the whole dialogue about Doug's
contribution, so I may be repeating what someone else said:
But are progressives against rich-country farm subsidies?
I for one am against subsidies to rich-country
Devine, James wrote:
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA took effect,
but are they higher relative to labor productivity?
That's not the issue. I was refuting the common notion that there's a
generalized race to the bottom. There isn't.
Doug
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Devine, James wrote:
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA took effect,
but are they higher relative to labor
other views on this Levy work if anyone already read it.
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Devine, James wrote:
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA
Eubulides wrote:
It makes for great agitprop and when was the last time you heard of
outsourcing or setting up plant-equipment in another country [any country
to any country] to *raise* unit labor costs and *raise* real wages as a
historical norm?
Oh I see, it doesn't matter if it's true, only if
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Eubulides wrote:
It makes for great agitprop and when was the last time you heard of
outsourcing or setting up plant-equipment
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Doug Henwood wrote:
|
| Sorry. But: 1) average U.S. wage levels are still rising, and 2)
| outsourcing in IT is raising Indian wage levels, sometimes
| substantially. On the latter point, listen to my interview with
| Ursula Huws from my Oct 2 radio
ravi wrote:
2. has average wage increased across the board in india? if so, how do
the figures look for real wages for non IT workers? all i have is
anecdotal information and its bad: at the bank where she had what used
to be a 'for life' job, they have started layoffs. in the meantime, she
is
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue 10/21/2003 4:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Devine, James wrote:
Wages in the United States are higher than when NAFTA took effect,
but are they higher
[New York Times]
October 22, 2003
China's Boom Adds to Global Warming Problem
By KEITH BRADSHER
ZHANJIANG, China China's rapid economic growth is producing a surge in
emissions of greenhouse gases that threatens international efforts to curb
global warming, as Chinese power plants burn ever more
All this would be bad enough if the government weren't doing its best
to make matters even worse, by recklessly encouraging farmers to
produce even more unneeded food. Absurdly, while one hand of the
federal government is campaigning against the epidemic of obesity,
the other hand is actually
Hart-Landsberg wrote:
The discussion of Cancun is interesting but I would like to propose a
change in emphasis. Generally speaking the Cancun meeting came to a
halt because the developed capitalist countries were not willing to
engage agriculture as they had previously promised. Rather
- Original Message -
From: Martin Hart-Landsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The discussion of Cancun is interesting but...
snip
...the question I would like to pose concerns how best to deal with
this situation. Should our conversations about the WTO remain focused
on agriculture
In his reply to Doug Henwood's article in the Nation, Peter Bohmer makes
points that are thought provoking. Confined to my bedroom due to a bad flu,
I will share with you some of my misery in the form of lengthy comments on
Peter's remarks. Forgive me. I won't happen again anytime soon.
Peter
on this in general. I'd look at each
case separately and avoid a general rule like Peter's.
With regards to the G-22 proposals and actions in Cancun, their
challenging the G-7 is exciting, especially in terms of their opposing the
attempt by the G7 to get the MAI in the back door. On the other hand and as
implied
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization? Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life? Try to
restrain the forces of capitalist
On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 10:21:11 (-0400) Doug Henwood writes:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization? Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life?
as Bill says, consult the
Doug asked if we would want to see a socialist government restrain
the forces of capitalist and/or technological development. Bill said,
ask the people, not us. Correct.
I would add that we can distinguish between capitalist and technological
development.
Of course, any kind of change -- even
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life?
as Bill
On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 11:59:46 (-0400) Doug Henwood writes:
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor,
rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing
Focus on food, education, health, housing first. When that is dealt
with, proceed at a very deliberate pace, with ample time for review and
evaluation, with an ecologically responsible industrialization policy.
Prepare to be invaded for terrorizing the capitalists.
Joanna
Doug Henwood wrote:
Yes, I left the ask the people stuff off my post, because people in
the third world have a skewed image of what industralization and
modernity imply. What they're exposed to in the media is the magic
outcome of that process...without understanding what that process
implies. So, health, education,
.
With regards to the G-22 proposals and actions in Cancun, their
challenging the G-7 is exciting, especially in terms of their
opposing the
attempt by the G7 to get the MAI in the back door. On the other hand
and as
implied by the previous paragraph, we should strongly oppose
subsidies
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by DOUG HENWOOD
[posted online on October 10, 2003]
snip
Which raises a question: What is progressive about using public
resources to support farming on cold, snowy, mountainous land? Isn't
the benefit of trade exactly to
- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by DOUG HENWOOD
[posted online on October 10, 2003]
snip
Which raises a question: What is progressive about using public
resources to support farming
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even largely dependent upon
imported food or imported inputs (e.g., fuels, fertilizers,
pesticides, etc.) for food production and distribution is vulnerable
to foreign
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even largely dependent upon
imported food or imported inputs (e.g., fuels, fertilizers,
pesticides, etc.) for food production and distribution is vulnerable
to foreign
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even
At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases
At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social
I discussed this in my first book, Farming for profit in a hungry world.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 10:42:32PM -0400, Michael Hoover wrote:
At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government
The discussion of Cancun is interesting but I would like to propose a
change in emphasis. Generally speaking the Cancun meeting came to a
halt because the developed capitalist countries were not willing to
engage agriculture as they had previously promised. Rather, they
demanded that third
At 3:09 PM -0400 10/11/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
But are progressives against rich-country farm subsidies?
* New York Times Magazine October 12, 2003
THE WAY WE LIVE NOW
The (Agri)Cultural Contradictions of Obesity
By MICHAEL POLLAN
Sometimes even complicated social problems turn out to be
, cooperatives and policies
that favor them.
With regards to the G-22 proposals and actions in Cancun, their
challenging the G-7 is exciting, especially in terms of their opposing
the attempt by the G7 to get the MAI in the back door. On the other hand
and as implied by the previous paragraph, we should
Policy made on the road to perdition
Larry Elliott
Monday October 13, 2003
The Guardian
There was a wonderful moment at the recent Cancun meeting where the
government wheeled out ministers from Britain's former colonies at a press
conference.
The hope was that Barbados, Ghana and Malawi would
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by DOUG HENWOOD
[posted online on October 10, 2003]
The mid-September failure of the World Trade Organization's
ministerial conference in Canc¨n was widely cheered on the left. A
Global Exchange (GX) press release
I will not answer this article on PEN-L in order to keep the peace, but I
have plans to answer it on Swans, an online publication. When it appears, I
will announce the url.
At 03:09 PM 10/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by
I am not familiar with the intricacies of ag. protectionism. I don't know
how much the Korean government supports agriculture, but without state
support much of California could not compete in agriculture. California
has massive water subsidies, which are much more important than the better
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2020/fl202000.htm
To this day, no one has come up with a set of rules for
originality. There aren't any. [Les Paul]
A recent dispatch from Cancun on reason.com by WTO supporter, Ronald Bailey,
highlights an important point of disagreement inside the social justice
movement. At the same time, the passage helps explain how capitalist
ideologues purposefully obscure the word property - one reason why dissent
Blow to world economy as trade talks collapse
Larry Elliott, Charlotte Denny and David Munk in Cancun
Monday September 15, 2003
The Guardian
The fragile global economy received a damaging blow last night when trade
talks in Cancun collapsed after a walkout by African countries protesting
How much do you think that the muck up in Iraq gave the G 21 courage to
stand up?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
there had the
guts to do that though.
Sabri
Zaman/English edition: http://www.zaman.com
Turkey to Mediate WTO Dispute over Agricultural Subsidies
Cancun, Mexico, September 14, 2003 - At the World Trade Organization
conference in Cancun, Mexico, differences remain between the USA
.'
These are the words of Lee Kyung-Hae, of the Korean Farmers' League, in
March 2003, on hunger strike at the gates of the WTO headquarters in
Geneva, Switzerland as the Committee on Agriculture was drawing up its
agenda this spring.
Yesterday in Cancun after hanging a sign that read 'WTO kills farmers
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2019/stories/20030926007412400.htm
A case for derailing Cancun
JAYATI GHOSH
The Cancun meeting of the WTO takes place at a time when the legitimacy of the
institution is under
question more than ever before.
To this day, no one
Wobblie folksinger Utah Phillips' daughter Morrigan is in Cancun for
the WTO protests. Here's her report of today.
Dan Scanlan
-
I am writing the summary of day two on the morning of day three
because I was out quite late. Yesterday was a rougher
http://www.radiocancun.org/
To this day, no one has come up with a set of rules for
originality. There aren't any. [Les Paul]
in
the Mexican beach resort of Cancun this weekend and could spark a repeat
of the riots that brought similar talks in the American city of Seattle to
a chaotic close.
The talks look to be head ing for crisis following a ferocious attack on
poor countries by the European Commission in which
http://www.tradeobservatory.org/library/uploadedfiles/Preparations_for_the_Fifth_Session_of_the_M_2.pdf
WTO
Countdown to Cancun
SUKUMAR MURALIDHARAN
The WTO Ministerial Conference at Cancun could mark the demise of
multilateralism if the United States persists with its approach of picking
trade partners on the basis of their political quiescence.
THE economist Jagdish Bhagwati, who has perhaps
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=39934
Examining The Political Case For An Investment Agreement At The WTO
Pradeep S Mehta
As the D-Day for the Cancun Ministerial approaches, trade policy
bureaucrats are very busy in formulating their respective negotiating
positions
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:44:15 +0500
From: Tahir Hasnain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Analysis of Draft Cancun Text and its Process
Third World Network
22 July 2003
www.twnside.org.sg
Dear friends and colleagues
ANALYSIS OF DRAFT CANCUN TEXT AND ITS PROCESS
The first draft
JOB(03)/150 18 July 2003
Preparations for the Fifth Session of the Ministerial Conference
Draft Cancún Ministerial Text
The attached Draft Ministerial Text is being circulated by the Chairman
of the General Council on his own responsibility, in close cooperation with
the Director-General. It
Can-do at Cancun is actually can't
Duncan Green
Monday June 23, 2003
The Guardian
The world's trade bureaucrats seem gripped by acute historical amnesia as
they prepare for September's global trade summit in Cancun, Mexico.
Both short and long term memory have been affected. Just 18 months ago
http://www.flonnet.com
Volume 20 - Issue 13, June 21 - July 04, 2003
WORLD AFFAIRS
A round of uncertainty
WALDEN BELLO
As the next ministerial of the WTO approaches, schisms have begun to
surface between contending parties. The Cancun meet is shaping up to be
another Seattle.
ONLY a little over
.
Coming: the Battle of Cancun
In short, the immediate future promises a very fluid situation. In this regard, the
Fifth
Ministerial of the WTO in Cancun, Mexico, in September 2003, is shaping up as a
confrontation between the old order and its challengers on the Left. Because of its
decision
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