value vs. price
by Ian Murray
07 February 2002 22:28 UTC
>Ian: You're right, there is no new thing under the Sun of Marx.
>
>
>
> CB: This recurrent theme that the ideas that Marx and Engels developed about
>150 years ago MUST be
obsolete or old an
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:34 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:22536] value vs. price
> value vs. price
> by Ian Murray
> 07 February 2002 01:47 UTC
>
>
>
> ===
value vs. price
by Ian Murray
07 February 2002 01:47 UTC
=
You're right, there is no new thing under the Sun of Marx.
CB: This recurrent theme that the ideas that Marx and Engels developed about 150 years
ago MUST be obsolete or old and funky by n
on 2/7/02 06:30 AM, Charles Brown at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> value vs price
> by Devine, James
> 05 February 2002 19:46 UTC
>
>
>> On exploitation, my take is that he noticed that in FACT,
>> throughout history, exploited and oppressed classes struggle
>&g
Charles:> Revolutions are like plate tectonic shifts in geology. They
> occur rarely , but their potential and tension are constant
> even through the normal times of small earthquakes ( That's
> dialectics)
Jim D.:yes, but your geology is wrong: tectonic shifts happen all the time, while
it'
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:22467] value vs. price
value vs. price
by Ian Murray
05 February 2002 17:09 UTC
=
Charles wrote:
> > On exploitation, my take is that he noticed that in FACT,
> > throughout history, exploited and oppressed classes struggle
> > against their exploitation and oppression. Opposition to
> > exploitation is a human natural ethical project ; the "is" of
> > history and the "oug
value vs price
by Devine, James
05 February 2002 19:46 UTC
> On exploitation, my take is that he noticed that in FACT,
> throughout history, exploited and oppressed classes struggle
> against their exploitation and oppression. Opposition to
> exploitation is a human nat
value vs. price
by Ian Murray
05 February 2002 17:09 UTC
=
Ok but surely we can understand Capital systemically without value
conepts? I was introduced to systems theory before I read KM and it
was easy to see the consonances but value theory didn't do a
fr
value vs. price
by Waistline2
05 February 2002 16:09 UTC
Charles: West was on television for about three hours a few weeks back. I watched
some. He declared there that he identified with the Council Communist movement, which
I believe has one propoent or so on this list.
West's religi
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
you can't understand what Marx is talking about in CAPITAL if you
don't
understand his jargon and more importantly, his way of approaching
the
question, which is summarized by his phrase "the law of value."
This lack of
unde
I wrote: >>the use of value concepts allows the understanding of the
capitalist system as a totality. Lacking this understanding -- and more
importantly, the ability to act on this understanding -- is one aspect
of the "anarchy of production," a necessary component of the existence
of crises.<<
>
Charles writes:
> CB: My take on Marx normative issues is that he asserts many
> injunctions ( such as "Workers of the world , unite", "the
> thing is to change the world") , so he has an ethical
> component to his theory. Ethics is what one does, and so
> Marx's emphasis on the unity of theor
>>I don't see Marxian (labor) values as normative, except as
representing "bourgeois right" (sale at value is treated as "equal
exchange" in CAPITAL).<<
>How is the concept of exploitation, which seems to be the heart of
the LTV, not normative? <
As Cornel West's analysis of Marx's take on moral
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 6:56 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:22384] RE: Re: value vs. price
[Ian gave me permission to send this one-to-one communication to
the pen-l
list as a
In a message dated 2/5/2002 8:59:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As Cornel West's analysis of Marx's take on morality suggests, Marx
applied the standards of "bourgeois right" (trading at price = value) to
show that capitalist violates _its own standards_. Marx clearly had
[Ian gave me permission to send this one-to-one communication to the pen-l
list as a whole.]
I wrote:>>the real-world fallacy of composition (or division) is
crucial: in this context, it says that the microeconomic processes
governed by prices do not correspond to the macroeconomic processes
desc
I wrote: >>One way of summarizing this whole issue is as follows:
>>(1) the distinction between value and price roughly corresponds to
the orthodox distinction between "social opportunity cost" and
opportunity cost to an individual. Both of these are quantitative.<<
Ian writes: >How do we get fr
miyachi [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]writes:
>Sir Devine, James<
I am not a British lord, but a commoner (a better class of human being,
BTW).
>your definition on price and value is incorrect. price is false
appearance of a category of value product. <
I wasn't defining price or value. I was makin
on 2/2/02 08:50 AM, Devine, James at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [was: RE: [PEN-L:22192] Re: RE: Re: re: re: Historical Materialism]
>
> Ian asks:
>> If one can do the quantitative side of Marx without the value
>> theory and achieve the same results as those who use the value
>> theory, which si
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
One way of summarizing this whole issue is as follows:
(1) the distinction between value and price roughly corresponds to
the
orthodox distinction between "social opportunity cost" and
opportunity cost
to an individual. Both
[was: RE: [PEN-L:22192] Re: RE: Re: re: re: Historical Materialism]
Ian asks:
> If one can do the quantitative side of Marx without the value
> theory and achieve the same results as those who use the value
> theory, which side is being redundant with regards to that aspect
> of Marx's corpus?
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