The battle of the Iraqi people is the battle of all movements, peoples and nations fighting for their liberation from the imperialist world system led by the US . Therefore we have to firmly rally behind the Iraqi resistance. If we are able to support their struggle to smash the US attempt to
Max Elbaum said in an interview:
blockquoteSlapping labels on people or ideas one disagrees with, or
stressing every possible area of difference rather than unity -- these
are not behaviors that were left back in the 1970s. And a downside of
today's internet culture is the tendency in at least
Not just white supremacists, though. There were several news items a while
back in which U.S. Army Intelligence reported that there gang activities in
Iran now, the result of their rather promiscuous recruitment politics in the
U.S.
ML
On 10/24/06, Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I watch such discussions and debates among the American leftists
occasionally,
not always, and every time I pay any attention to them, I reach the conclusion
that you take yourselves more seriously than you should. The American left is
so
October 25, 2006 / New York TIMES
Venezuelan's Diatribe at U.N. May Have Backfired
By WARREN HOGE
UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 24 — Venezuela's populist leader, Hugo Chávez,
earned giggles and guffaws at the United Nations last month with his
mass appeal diatribe ridiculing President Bush as the devil.
Well, I'm all ears on this if you have a suggestion, but I doubt you'll hit
one something that hasn't been tried. After all, these are questions that
are as old as the two-party system.
And the plague-on-both-your-houses misses the point. For us the process of
trying to build a party unowned by
What is odd, American leftists bring this absurd perfectionism to
their understanding of *other* countries! And act as if they could
and should expect Iranians, Brazilians, Venezuelans, etc. and their
political leaders to agree with them 100%! But, no, Iranians,
Brazilians, Venezuelans, etc. do
On 10/25/06, Mark Lause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And the plague-on-both-your-houses misses the point. For us the process of
trying to build a party unowned by business has been fruitful, regardless of
the outcome of any particular election.
I'm sorry. I missed something. Which party is that?
* Seen on a sign at a fundamentalist church: Wal-Mart Isn't the Only
Saving Place.
* Why are there so many fundamentalist churches in my area? After all,
this is an area inhabited by large numbers of engineers and yuppies,
from the aerospace, oil, and entertainment industries? It's the only
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is odd, American leftists bring this absurd perfectionism to
their understanding of *other* countries! And act as if they could
and should expect Iranians, Brazilians, Venezuelans, etc. and their
political leaders to agree with them 100%!
On 10/24/06, Doyle Saylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't agree with you that debates here about any issue like
fascism is a waste of time. There are symptoms of mass movements in
formation where the debates begin to grow and enlarge and escape the
formal boundaries of the previous period.
The phrase moving left made me wonder whether any Democrat today would dare
to run
on a platform advocating some of Richard Nixon's achievements: EPA, OSHA, and
the
like.
On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 08:50:07AM -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
if a lot of people are moving to the left these days, I'd
Yoshie:
Suppose you don't like my opinion about Iran. So what? Even on Iran,
I'd think that points of agreement between us -- e.g., no war or
sanctions on Iran -- are more important than points of disagreement --
e.g., relative merits and demerits of populist and reformist factions
in Iran.
Michael Perelman wrote:
The phrase moving left made me wonder whether any Democrat today would dare
to run
on a platform advocating some of Richard Nixon's achievements: EPA, OSHA, and
the
like.
that com-symp? no way!
--
Jim Devine / I wanna be with you in paradise / And it seems so unfair
/
On 10/25/06, Mark Lause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I'm all ears on this if you have a suggestion, but I doubt you'll hit
one something that hasn't been tried. After all, these are questions that
are as old as the two-party system.
And the plague-on-both-your-houses misses the point. For
On 10/25/06, Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
American leftists can't live with what's imperfect but is still worth supporting.
who are you talking about? are you talking about me? or am I not an
American leftist? show me one example where I embraced
perfectionism, please.
what
Catholic Church Must Pay For Contraceptives
New York's highest court ruled that insurance coverage for employees
of social service agencies run by the Catholic Church must include
contraception. What do you think?
Richard Harris, Administrative Coordinator:
Telling women that I work for the
Doug,
Better
start arranging for that babysitter re the Great 'Pluralism' Discussion.
The game's afoot!
michael
PS. But how could Jerry imply that 'SPACE' is not neutral?
- Original Message -
From:
Jerry Levy
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject:
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yoshie:
Suppose you don't like my opinion about Iran. So what? Even on Iran,
I'd think that points of agreement between us -- e.g., no war or
sanctions on Iran -- are more important than points of disagreement --
e.g., relative merits and
Yoshie:
I don't think I have behaved antagonistically toward you or anyone
else for that matter, on Iran or any other issue. IMHO, the direction
of personal insults, etc. was opposite. I don't have time for that.
Yoshie, there are two ways to be insulting. You can openly sarcastic as I
am.
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
Max Elbaum said in an interview:
blockquoteSlapping labels on people or ideas one disagrees with, or
stressing every possible area of difference rather than unity -- these
are not behaviors that were left back in the 1970s.
.
The first intimation.. that hasn't
Hungarian Revolt and 'totalitarianism'. posted by lenin
http://leninology.blogspot.com/
You know, of course, that the Hungarian revolutionaries demanded more
and better 'totalitarianism', not less? I speak here as if
'totalitarianism' was a synonym for any non-liberal social system,
which is
OAS Criticizes US Interference in Nicaragua's Election, But the New
York Times and the Washington Post Don't Think It's Newsworthy
Huffington Post
Last weekend, election monitors from the Organization of American
States criticized the Bush Administration's interference in
Nicaragua's upcoming
Hi sexy,
Was just thinking of you...
Going out for dinner now with Steve and Rob, if he finds his way here.
xxx
Subject: OAS Criticizes US Interference in Nicaragua's Election, But the New
York Times and the Washington Post Don't Think It's Newsworthy
OAS Criticizes US Interference in
In my city, the location of churches is mainly a result of zoning laws.
* Why are there so many fundamentalist churches in my area? After all,
this is an area inhabited by large numbers of engineers and yuppies,
from the aerospace, oil, and entertainment industries? It's the only
place
Yoshie wrote, The debate like that matters when there are a large number of
leftists and they are relatively well organized.
While the numbers vary with how you count them, I understand and agree with
this point. But one of the reasons we are not well organized is because we
place too little
that's probably it.
On 10/25/06, Walt Byars [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my city, the location of churches is mainly a result of zoning laws.
* Why are there so many fundamentalist churches in my area? After all,
this is an area inhabited by large numbers of engineers and yuppies,
from the
TV regulation will become telecom regulation
By Eli M. Noam
Published: October 24 2006
Financial Times
What will the regulation of television look like in the future? That
question is on the minds of policymakers and media companies around the
world. In the past, television was tightly controlled
On 10/25/06, Mark Lause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I don't honestly know how to read meaning into square one. What is
it? What is square five? Are these suggested as stages? How do we
define those stages?
one thing that would help deal with square 1 -- and Mark's questions
-- is to have
Fundamentalism is more upscale than its image, I think. It's quite
possible that engineers and oil execs are members of the congregations.
Doug
On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Jim Devine wrote:
that's probably it.
On 10/25/06, Walt Byars [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my city, the location of
by the way, is it true that few economists are religious or allow
religious faith to affect their economics? Has the Holy Cult of the
Invisible Hand supplanted organized religion?
On 10/25/06, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fundamentalism is more upscale than its image, I think. It's
Just Foreign Policy News
October 25, 2006
No War with Iran: Petition
More than 3200 people have signed the Just Foreign Policy/Peace Action
petition through Just Foreign Policy's website. Please sign/circulate
if you have yet to do so:
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/involved/iranpetition.html
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yoshie:
I don't think I have behaved antagonistically toward you or anyone
else for that matter, on Iran or any other issue. IMHO, the direction
of personal insults, etc. was opposite. I don't have time for that.
Yoshie, there are two ways
saw michael franti - beatnigs/disposable heroes/spearhead - film last
night at the local food coop here in jackson, ms...doc about trip he
took to iraq, israel, occupied territories...pretty good...
website:
http://www.iknowimnotalone.com/
Yoshie:
By Western leftists I mean leftists in the USA, the EU, and Japan.
The term is indeed too broad, for some leftists somewhere in the West
may be doing well unbeknownst to me. Given my own experience and
people I most often talk to on the Net, I'm most often thinking of
leftists in the
A La Survivor: Africa... Pitting The NIMBY crew from Malibu against
their counterparts in Nigeria. As the Kenyan native observing Survior:
Kenya quipped to a NYTimes reporter:
They should put me on this show. I could win this.
Villagers shut down Shell oil facilities in Nigeria
LAGOS, Nigeria
On 10/25/06, Mark Lause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yoshie wrote, The debate like that matters when there are a large number of
leftists and they are relatively well organized.
While the numbers vary with how you count them, I understand and agree with
this point. But one of the reasons we are
From: Jessica [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Oct 25, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: Announcing the Tour for a Just Foreign Policy in Iran and Iraq
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi all,
Please find the tour locations and line up below. Help us get the word
out by forwarding this announcement to your communities!
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yoshie:
By Western leftists I mean leftists in the USA, the EU, and Japan.
The term is indeed too broad, for some leftists somewhere in the West
may be doing well unbeknownst to me. Given my own experience and
people I most often talk to on
Airlines Have the Obesity Problem too.
Weight gain means lower gas mileage
CHICAGO (AP) _ Researchers say ever-expanding Americans can save some
money at the pumps if they lose some of the extra weight.
A study suggests that Americans are burning almost a (b) billion more
gallons of gasoline
So, if you drive 30K miles per year in a 30mpg car and gas is 3$ a
gallon, you spend $3,000. So, drop 100 lbs and save $40? Or,
how about car manufacturers increase MPG, as they would have had
to had the government not caved to them? Say, by a measly 1 mpg?
Then you would save nearly $100.
You can call them leftists in rich countries or leftists in the global
North if you like. To me, they all mean the same thing, except
Western leftists has a virtue of brevity.
--
Yoshie
That is just as bad. You are again resorting to an essentializing
technique. We are dealing with ideas,
huh? you didn't answer my questions, Yoshie.
On 10/25/06, Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/25/06, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/25/06, Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
American leftists can't live with what's imperfect but is still worth
supporting.
On 10/25/06, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
huh? you didn't answer my questions, Yoshie.
The way Western leftists talk about the rest of the world, those who
hear them (if anyone hears them) would probably think, hey, why not
let Washington invade any country it likes anyhow? There is
I'm a Western leftist (of an admittedly rather odd sort) and surely the
main, the only reason for being opposed to Western imperialist wars is that
they kill people, in their hundreds of thousands, for no good purpose
whatever. I would and have spoken in favour of the cause of not invading
some
I like Daniel's statement, but I can think of another, less important reason --
how
imperialism deforms imperial societies. Both victories and defeats have
negative
consequences.
On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:48:25PM +0100, Daniel Davies wrote:
I'm a Western leftist (of an admittedly rather odd
I wrote:
huh? you didn't answer my questions, Yoshie.
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
The way Western leftists talk about the rest of the world, those who
hear them (if anyone hears them) would probably think, hey, why not
let Washington invade any country it likes anyhow? There is nothing
there
On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Electing me as Governor of Texas - (which officially is the first
state in America to be a majority nonwhite) or President for that
matter, with Michael Perlman taking Greenspans job, Lou. P being
press secretary and everyone on Pen-L and
On 10/25/06, Daniel Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm a Western leftist (of an admittedly rather odd sort) and surely the
main, the only reason for being opposed to Western imperialist wars is that
they kill people, in their hundreds of thousands, for no good purpose
whatever.
After Iraq,
It is no different with George W. Bush.
Bush is a political fascist American brand or what Hillary
Clinton called the far right and the CPUSA describes as ultra right and/or
Christian right-wingers. Apparently the Christian in Christian right-wingers
denotes a specific religious
The way Western leftists talk about the rest of the world, those who
hear them (if anyone hears them) would probably think, hey, why not
let Washington invade any country it likes anyhow? There is nothing
there to defend.
--
Yoshie
This is a real slap in the face to somebody like myself who
Foreign Policy in Focus via Alternet - Oct 25, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/stories/43435/
How Microbrew Can Save the World
Small-scale, homebrew beer production plays a vital role in
sustainable development throughout the world.
By Chris O'Brien
Foreign Policy in Focus
The world's cup
On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Electing me as Governor of Texas - (which officially is the first state
in America to be a majority nonwhite) or President for that matter, with
Michael Perlman taking Greenspans job, Lou. P being press secretary and
everyone on Pen-L
Ok, Melvin other penners, who said this?
Many economists did not see financial economics as central to their discipline,
viewing it as special relatively unimportant in almost the same way as the
economics
of ketchup, studied in isolation, would be trivial.
On Wed, Oct 25, 2006 at 06:14:49PM
At 17:14 25/10/2006, Yoshie wrote:
The last time we talked about
anything constructive and
forward-looking here concerned the Mexican elections and the AMLO
campaign. Paul proposed that it might help the campaign for
PEN-l
economists to sketch out an alternative budget or something like
that.
On
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The way Western leftists talk about the rest of the world, those who
hear them (if anyone hears them) would probably think, hey, why not
let Washington invade any country it likes anyhow? There is nothing
there to defend.
--
Yoshie
This is a
I like Daniel's statement, but I can think of another,
less important reason -- how imperialism deforms imperial societies. Both
victories and defeats have negative consequences.
Comment
Bingo!
But even this statement runs the risk of being misunderstood,
given our status as the
Ok, Melvin other penners, who said
this?"Many economists did not see financial economics as central to
their discipline, viewing it as special relatively unimportant in almost the
same way as the economics of ketchup, studied in isolation, would be trivial."
Reply
I did not . . . but
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't go so far as Henry. But there appears to me to be a huge gap
between what a majority of Chinese think about the Chinese government
and what Western leftists tend to think about it
(clip)
. Nuances are lacking, to put it mildly.
--
This discussion now seems to be between Yoshie Lou. Time to take it off list?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
michaelperelman.wordpress.com
Louis Proyect wrote:
Any way you slice it, you don't get fascism
without the threat of proletarian revolution.
That might be going on somewhere else in the
USA, but surely not in NYC.
Without being too post-modern, would you be willing to entertain the
(remote) possibility that some people
Sabri wrote:
you take yourselves more seriously than you should
Right. The issues are serious though.
But you cut out nuances from the articles: e.g., Nevertheless, it
would be a serious mistake to exaggerate these tendencies. The Chinese
left as a recognizable force is still small, marginalized, and
dividedlike the working classes themselvesinto many groupings and
factions (at
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But you cut out nuances from the articles: e.g., Nevertheless, it
would be a serious mistake to exaggerate these tendencies. The Chinese
left as a recognizable force is still small, marginalized, and
divided—like the working classes
Julio:
Without being too post-modern, would you be willing to entertain the
(remote) possibility that some people are using the term fascism in
a different sense than yours?
Sure, I use the term in a different way from classical Marxism myself
from time to time. Like the fascist NY Yankees or
We believe, and argue in this book, that this
celebration of China is a serious mistake, one that reflects a misunderstanding
not only of the Chinese experience but also of the dynamics and contradictions
of capitalism as an international system. In fact, an examination of the effects
of
On 10/25/06, Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This discussion now seems to be between Yoshie Lou. Time to take it off list?
I hope not. It has been a reasonably informative discussion so far.
Louis' original objection to Yoshie's use of the term Western
lefties seems like
It would help us to examine a functioning government outside the West
the way we often do a government inside the West: analyzing the nature
of its hegemony (which Gramsci contrasts with domination), how it wins
consent of a majority of the governed, culturally, politically, and
economically. We
Julio Huato wrote:
Without being too post-modern, would you be willing to entertain the
(remote) possibility that some people are using the term fascism in
a different sense than yours?
If I may respond, even though you're not supposed to respond to
rhetorical questions and Julio was asking
Since Yoshie, Michael L, and Julio have raised the question, see
Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives - December 2003: The
Alternative Federal Budget.
December 2003: The Alternative Federal Budget
AFB shows how a better budget would lead to a better world
December 1, 2003 | National
On 10/25/06, Julio Huato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Louis Proyect wrote:
Any way you slice it, you don't get fascism
without the threat of proletarian revolution.
That might be going on somewhere else in the
USA, but surely not in NYC.
Without being too post-modern, would you be willing to
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This has nothing to do with the matter at hand,
which is the supposed popularity of the Chinese
government. You can say the same thing about the
White Rose students who resisted Hitler: small,
marginalized, and divided. But that does not
Does not mean he was unpopular either - he did win 30% of votes in the
1932 presidential elections. if Hitler can command such a huge mass of
support, is it so hard to believe the Chinese and Iranian governments
may be slightly more popular?
-raghu.
Well, sure. But the White Rose movement took
On 10/25/06, raghu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/25/06, Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This discussion now seems to be between Yoshie Lou. Time to take it off
list?
I hope not. It has been a reasonably informative discussion so far.
Louis' original objection to Yoshie's use of
oh hell. the context is a quote explaining that an economist is in
principle interested in the relationship between the price of tomatoes and
the price of ketchup, but a financial economist is the guy who tells you
that a gallon of ketchup sells for the same price as eight pints and thinks
he's
I'm still interested too.
dd
-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of raghu
Sent: 26 October 2006 00:45
To: PEN-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
Subject: Re: Response to Stan Goff
On 10/25/06, Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This discussion now seems to be
Greetings Economists,
On Oct 25, 2006, at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
everyone on Pen-L and other assorted leftist list occupying Cabinet
positions and positions throughout government
Mr. President I want to work in NIST on assistive technology, and
computers. I don't wanna be a
On 10/25/06, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By saying that Bush's approach is
fascist, one is saying that he's like Mussolini
He's 'like' Mussolini.
In other words, calling Bush's approach fascist is a lot like those
guys who interpret all events in terms of the 1917 Russian
On 10/25/06, Leigh Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/25/06, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The term conjures up images of epicene tenured professors in places
like Boston or New York City signing petitions circulated by Joanne
Landy and clucking their tongues at the latest article
This is Iran in a typical Western leftist's imagination:
In the recent period we have witnessed a massive growth in the
struggle of workers and youth in Iran. As the economic problems have
mounted, 90% of the population have been pushed below the poverty line
(including, over 16,000 doctors)
Very good. Samuelson's nephew and a hero of all on the list.
Summers, Lawrence H. 1985. On Economics and Finance. The Journal of Finance,
40:
3. Papers and Proceedings of the Forty-Third Annual Meeting American Finance
Association, Dallas, Texas, December 28-30, 1984, pp. 633-35.
On Thu, Oct
It seems to me that all visitors on visas are required
both to be fingerprinted and get eye scans as well. I
saw the machines at O'hare when I recently transited
the US from the Philippines. They did not require me
to be fingerprinted and scanned but I was just
changing planes but I was required
Yoshie wrote:
This is Iran in a typical Western leftist's imagination:
In the recent period we have witnessed a massive growth in the
struggle of workers and youth in Iran. As the economic problems have
mounted, 90% of the population have been pushed below the poverty line
(including, over
I still think that if fascists
were in power, we wouldnt be having an open discussion of it.
ML
On Oct 25, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
their favorite
picture of 90% of the Iranian population being under the poverty line
I'm Western, and a leftist, and I suppose that makes me a Western
leftist, but I never thought 90% of Iranians are under some poverty
line (which pov
Mark Lause wrote:
I still think that if fascists were in power, we wouldn’t be having an
open discussion of it.
ML
Leigh
http://leighm.net/
NOTICE: George W. Bush has issued Executive Orders allowing the National
Security Agency to read this message and all other e-mail you
Greetings Economists,
On Oct 25, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Doug Henwood wrote:
Many, maybe most leftists in the West
(and those in Iran who haven't been killed) think it's a repressive
theocracy that needs a good shaking up.
Doyle;
Well, I'm not sure it matters to put it in terms of repressive
On 10/25/06, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 25, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
their favorite
picture of 90% of the Iranian population being under the poverty line
I'm Western, and a leftist, and I suppose that makes me a Western
leftist, but I never thought 90% of
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
But most Western leftists are not only not interested in them but
they positively hate seeing anything that contradicts their favorite
picture of 90% of the Iranian population being under the poverty line
or things of that nature.
.
Indeed... and they speak of the
the original human population would all have become
vampires with nobody left to feed on.
Yahoo! News
SPACE.com
Vampires a Mathematical Impossibility, Scientist Says
Sara Goudarzi
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.comWed Oct 25, 5:15 PM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20061025/sc_space
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