Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy

Charles Brown wrote: Does the concept of socially necessary labor time avoid the lump of labor fallacy ? No. Only NAIRU and Say's Law are infallible. The Sandwichman __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy

What about the Pope? Gene Coyle tom walker wrote: Charles Brown wrote: Does the concept of socially necessary labor time avoid the lump of labor fallacy ? No. Only NAIRU and Say's Law are infallible. The Sandwichman

[PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy

Does the concept of socially necessary labor time avoid the lump of labor fallacy ? Charles

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy

Eugene Coyle wrote: What about the Pope? Is the Pope a neoclassical economist? If not, I'm afraid we'll have to repeal his infallibility status. Actually there is a simpler test of whether one has committed the lump-of-labor fallacy. Ask yourself if a given argument is consistent with the

[PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

* From: tom walker Charles Brown wrote: So the the lump of labor fallacy is a fallacy ? Not exactly. The claim that proponents of shorter working time *necessarily* commit the lump-of-labor fallacy is a fallacy. In fact, that claim is itself an instance of the lump-of-labor fallacy,

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

Charles Brown wrote: Lets see , shorter work week with no cut in pay... Here's where I need to point out that I'm a renegade on the no cut in pay slogan. The effect of this seemingly ideal formula is to push the drive for shorter working time into a rhetorical dead end. In the first place this

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

The one exception to my opposition to the no cut in pay rule would be at the minimum wage. The total income from minimum wage at standard hours shouldn't be allowed to be cut. I would suggest you could take this one step further and argue that the dollar amount of the wage increase necessary to

[PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

Yes and yes. Belonging to a union should also be included if there's any intention of interferring with the divine law of supply and demand (as revealed to the employer). The Sandwichman ^^ So the the lump of labor fallacy is a fallacy ? Charles

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

Charles Brown wrote: So the the lump of labor fallacy is a fallacy ? Not exactly. The claim that proponents of shorter working time *necessarily* commit the lump-of-labor fallacy is a fallacy. In fact, that claim is itself an instance of the lump-of-labor fallacy, which if you care to go into

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

Charles Brown wrote: So the the lump of labor fallacy is a fallacy ? Due to my ideological blinkers, I had a hard time getting my mind around Tom's emphasis on the LOL fallacy, so maybe it would help if I used an analogy to explain my understanding. I hope that Tom will correct me if I'm

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of labor fallacy fallacy

Jim Devine wrote: The idea of the LOLF is similar to the idea that critics of capitalism are tools of the USSR (replace USSR with al Qaeda today) or that Marxists believe that relative prices are determined directly by relative labor-values. Establishmentarian types bring out this kind

[PEN-L] Lump of Labor fallacy; May Day

Tom, I know it has taken me years to understand it, but does celebrating May Day sort of imply indulging in the lump of labor fallacy ? Same with Marx in his chapter supporting the struggle for a shorter work day ? Charles Also regarding the dissemination of scientific legends (see Mozart

Re: [PEN-L] Lump of Labor fallacy; May Day

Charles Brown wrote: I know it has taken me years to understand it, but does celebrating May Day sort of imply indulging in the lump of labor fallacy ? Same with Marx in his chapter supporting the struggle for a shorter work day ? Yes and yes. Belonging to a union should also be included

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

So what's your explanation for the greater preference (as the bourgeois economists say) for leisure in Europe? Their explanation seems rather tortured and bogus, but I'd like to see a better one. Doug As promised, I try to offer my personal explanation after introducing the matter a little bit. It

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

isn't the difference betwen European and Amurrican tastes for leisure really just a result of the greater success of labor and social-democratic movements in the latter? On 5/13/05, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Massimo Portolani wrote: Alesina is italian, as I am, and over here some

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

Jim Devine wrote: isn't the difference betwen European and Amurrican tastes for leisure really just a result of the greater success of labor and social-democratic movements in the latter? In some sense, yes, but I remember interviewing someone from the UAW when I was first doing my radio show who

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

Jim Devine wrote: isn't the difference betwen European and Amurrican tastes for leisure really just a result of the greater success of labor and social-democratic movements in the latter? In a nutshell, that's what Alesina et al. are saying. Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

John De Graaf, the film maker and force behind the movement to Take Back Your Time (conference in early August in Seattle) has a great bit in a speech he gives about working time. Recalling the Lawrence strike, with its slogan of Bread and Roses he contrasts that with Bread and Butter of today's

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

michael perelman wrote: Department of Economics 6106 Rockefeller Hall Doug: That's a nice touch, isn't it? Years ago, an economist friend of mine who now teaches at Princeton and has a column in the New York TIMES expressed dismay that the US was headed by Ford

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] michael perelman wrote: Department of Economics 6106 Rockefeller Hall That's a nice touch, isn't it? It would be a nicer touch if it were 666 Rockefeller Hall. BTW, the main library at Brown Univ. is the John D. Rockefeller Library. When it

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

Alesina is italian, as I am, and over here some of us think that he has become more american than americans. Anybody who has real experience with workers in Europe and USA knows quite well that what they appear to claim is not true. I would strongly advise most of these people who write these

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

Massimo Portolani wrote: Alesina is italian, as I am, and over here some of us think that he has become more american than americans. Anybody who has real experience with workers in Europe and USA knows quite well that what they appear to claim is not true. I would strongly advise most of these

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

Excuse me but it's quite late over here and I have to wake up early tomorrow. I will read the paper in details and I'll be glad to provide my point of view asap Good night Massimo Portolani On 14/mag/05, at 00:07, Doug Henwood wrote: Massimo Portolani wrote: Alesina is italian, as I am, and over

Re: [PEN-L] lump of labor?

The lump of labor appears on page 22 of this article, end of the second paragraph: The unions' stated policies were based on the assumption that the total amount of work to be performed was somehow fixed, and therefore sharing it amongst more individuals would increase employment. The authors'