Re: A suggestion for a new closure trait.

2006-08-30 Thread Jonathan Lang
Joe Gottman wrote: Since a FIRST block gets called at loop initialization time, it seems to me that it would be useful to have a block closure trait, RESUME, that gets called at the beginning of every loop iteration except the first. Thus, at the beginning of each loop iteration either FIRST or

Re: Implicit current-index variable, scoped inside for-loops

2006-08-30 Thread Carl Mäsak
Damian (), Ruud (), Damian (), Carl (): But it can hardly be blamed for clarity. That's a little unfair. can hardly be blamed - can easily be praised g Apologies to Carl if I misinterpreted. I read it as: can hardly be blamed for (having) clarity ;-) No, yours is the correct

Re: A suggestion for a new closure trait.

2006-08-30 Thread Sage La Torra
On 8/30/06, Jonathan Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Gottman wrote: Since a FIRST block gets called at loop initialization time, it seems to me that it would be useful to have a block closure trait, RESUME, that gets called at the beginning of every loop iteration except the first. Thus,

Re: return Types: what are the enforcement details?

2006-08-30 Thread Yuval Kogman
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 19:49:38 -0500, Mark Stosberg wrote: I'm interested in helping to write some tests for return types, but I'd like some clarifications about them first. Are they just declarations that help Perl optimize stuff, or they actually contracts? 'of' is the contractual form,

Re: Why does writing PMCs suck?

2006-08-30 Thread chromatic
On Tuesday 29 August 2006 19:51, Matt Diephouse wrote: It's been said that writing PMCs sucks. This is your chance to tell the world why. Because for things to get better, we have to know what sucks. I'll get things started: 1) pmc2c.pl is very fragile - when it gets input it doesn't

Re: Implicit current-index variable, scoped inside for-loops

2006-08-30 Thread Dr.Ruud
Damian Conway schreef: [for @array - $index, $value {...}] No. There's no such magic. I simply screwed up. I should have written: for @array.kv - $index, $value {...} :-( Ah, much clearer now. g -- Affijn, Ruud Gewoon is een tijger.

Re: multi subs with identical signatures: should be a warning ?

2006-08-30 Thread Markus Laire
Since nobody else has answered yet, I'll try to say something. I'll post this also to perl6-language so that those who know better can comment on this. On 8/28/06, Mark Stosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, what's the recommended reference for learning how dispatching to the right 'multi'

Contextual::Return (was Re: could 'given' blocks have a return value?)

2006-08-30 Thread Trey Harris
In a message dated Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Mark Stosberg writes: my $rm = sub { given $rm_param { when Code { $rm_param(self) } when Hash { %rm_paramrun_mode } default{ self.query.param($rm_param) } }}(); This is eerily like Contextual::Return, which made me wonder if

Re: PMC Methods, Inheritance, and User-visible Classes

2006-08-30 Thread Watson Ladd
Matt Diephouse wrote: Joshua Juran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Matt Diephouse wrote: I would like to add some sort methods as well: quicksort(), mergesort(), etc. But as methods, there is potential for these to end up in a user-visible space. Say for example,

derived class generators and introspection

2006-08-30 Thread Darren Duncan
All, This email is part of a brain dump from my thoughts over the last week while I was away from a computer. If anything doesn't make sense, I will clarify or expand it in the following days. I believe that Perl 6 already has basically all of the necessary parts built-in for implementing

Re: derived class generators and introspection

2006-08-30 Thread Nigel Hamilton
HI Darren, Generally I really like the idea of fixing the relational/OO mismatch problem by swallowing the relational model whole. :-) But I wonder if we are ready to say goodbye to the tyranny of disk seek? How will your proposed system use the disk? And if it does use the disk what

Re: could 'given' blocks have a return value?

2006-08-30 Thread Mark Stosberg
Agent Zhang wrote: According to S04, given {} is at statement level, so you can't use it directly as an expression. But Perl 6 always allow you to say my $foo = do given {...} As well as my $foo = do if foo {...} else {...} I confirmed this both work now with pugs! I think the

Re: Stubborn coworkers

2006-08-30 Thread Steffen Schwigon
Jeff Stampes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My bigger concern with the Perl6 syntax is that they expect humans to write it. This is a similar problem that Forth and Lisp had. You see how widely used those are now... It will always be difficult to compare Perl X against any other language. Perl5

Re: PMC Methods, Inheritance, and User-visible Classes

2006-08-30 Thread chromatic
On Wednesday 30 August 2006 04:12, Watson Ladd wrote: Seriously, what's so bad about adding functionality into a language? I once saw an overfilled waterbed that was almost as tall as I am. I would have called it PHP, but it didn't explode and throw cold water all over the house. -- c

Proposed patch

2006-08-30 Thread Mark J. Reed
Currently compilation fails on OS X with gcc/g++, because -bundle as the first argument gets interpreted as a request to run the undle version of the compiler. It works fine as a later argument, so there's no need to break compatibility with the Apple compiler: Index:

Re: Proposed patch

2006-08-30 Thread Will Coleda
What version of OSX and gcc are you using? I haven't seen this problem on 10.4.7 PPC with gcc 4.0.1. Did it just break recently?? Not that I see any problem applying this patch, regardless. On Aug 30, 2006, at 4:55 PM, Mark J. Reed wrote: Currently compilation fails on OS X with gcc/g++,

Re: Proposed patch

2006-08-30 Thread Mark J. Reed
Whups, sorry, I meant to say OS X 10.3, with its gcc (3.3). I agree that it seems to build fine on Tiger. On 8/30/06, Will Coleda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What version of OSX and gcc are you using? I haven't seen this problem on 10.4.7 PPC with gcc 4.0.1. Did it just break recently?? Not

Help getting pugs working?

2006-08-30 Thread Jeff Stampes
I told my coworkers I'd get pugs up and running for us, so we could start getting some hands on experience. I managed this on my home system in the past, but am completely stymied now. We're running Red Hat Enterprise 4, and I'm stuck at square one, trying to get GHC running. You need ghc

Re: Help getting pugs working?

2006-08-30 Thread Steffen Schwigon
Jeff Stampes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We're running Red Hat Enterprise 4, and I'm stuck at square one, trying to get GHC running. You need ghc working to compile ghc, or you need to bootstrap it. Did you already try one of the binaries from http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_641.html

Re: Help getting pugs working?

2006-08-30 Thread Jeff Stampes
Thanks to Steffen and others who sent me some help and words of encouragement...I believe I have it working now :)

Re: Contextual::Return (was Re: could 'given' blocks have a return value?)

2006-08-30 Thread Damian Conway
Trey Harris asked: This is eerily like Contextual::Return, which made me wonder if it's even required in Perl 6. Obviously we can do return do given want { when :($) { ... } ... }; But return do given want flows so badly, I desperately want some sugar

Re: derived class generators and introspection

2006-08-30 Thread Darren Duncan
On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Nigel Hamilton wrote: HI Darren, Generally I really like the idea of fixing the relational/OO mismatch problem by swallowing the relational model whole. :-) But I wonder if we are ready to say goodbye to the tyranny of disk seek? How will your proposed

RE: Stubborn coworkers

2006-08-30 Thread Ryan, Martin G
My bigger concern with the Perl6 syntax is that they expect humans to write it. This is a similar problem that Forth and Lisp had. You see how widely used those are now... ... How would you respond? I would expose and challenge the presumptions in the statement. My bigger concern... Do

Re: Stubborn coworkers

2006-08-30 Thread Jeff Stampes
Thank you Martin, and everyone else. We've had several other conversations, and I believe this boils down to just a natural pessimist. She wants to see perl continue to be a widely adopted successful language, and while she is willing to do whatever work it takes to learn, she doesn't have

Re: PMC Methods, Inheritance, and User-visible Classes

2006-08-30 Thread Luke Palmer
On 8/30/06, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 30 August 2006 04:12, Watson Ladd wrote: Seriously, what's so bad about adding functionality into a language? I once saw an overfilled waterbed that was almost as tall as I am. I would have called it PHP, but it didn't explode and

Re: PMC Methods, Inheritance, and User-visible Classes

2006-08-30 Thread Mark J. Reed
On 8/30/06, Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with PHP is not that it has too much functionality, but that it is organized extremely poorly. Amen. PHP is the poster child for namespace pollution. And PHP5 actually has the tools to stop the madness; it's just a question of

Re: PMC Methods, Inheritance, and User-visible Classes

2006-08-30 Thread peter baylies
On 8/31/06, Mark J. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/30/06, Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with PHP is not that it has too much functionality, but that it is organized extremely poorly. Amen. PHP is the poster child for namespace pollution. And PHP5 actually has the

Re: derived class generators and introspection

2006-08-30 Thread Darren Duncan
At 5:31 AM +0100 8/31/06, Nigel Hamilton wrote: Rather, the proposal is focusing on what users of these data structures would / could see. The idea is that relational structures have the same ease of use and flexability that things like hashes or arrays or sequences or sets do now. They can of