has been included even earlier).
The compile only works if I define PARROT_IN_EXTENSION myself (on the compiler
command line)
So what should be going on? Or am I missing something completely obvious?
Nicholas Clark
e that removes them.
>
> Hope this helps,
Thanks, yes it did. It let me remove the hack to define PARROT_IN_EXTENSION
in ponie's Configure.pl
Nicholas Clark
;ve no idea what the extra book-keeping overhead of this would be, and
whether the savings would be big enough to pay for that overhead.
Nicholas Clark
rather old machines that act as X
servers can actually provide.
Maybe acrobat is also failing due to blowing some internal resource limits.
Nicholas Clark
on this reduces time spent on
Punie. (And as I've not had occasion to say it before, thanks for all the
time you're donating to Punie and the tools it creates)
Nicholas Clark
nt $a / -1'
Floating point exception (core dumped)
which I never knew.
Beware of assuming anything about signed integer arithmetic overflow - the
vendor compiler on 64 bit Irix produces the arithmetic results that you'd
expect from 2's complement, but subsequent comparisons with the result don't
always "work" (eg you end up down the "wrong" side of if statements) and
on Ahmdal mainframes (IIRC) MAX_INT + 1 is 0, not MIN_INT.
Nicholas Clark
nread() by pushing
back a temporary buffer - this is more "peek" by "ungetc" than peek by really
peeking.
> be the default encoding for all data read in from a stream where a
> layer's not added that explicitly states so? Ascii, binary?
EBCDIC?
Logically the default default is it's either compile time chosen
"ASCII or EBCDIC" or "binary".
Nicholas Clark
a sufficiently flexible abstraction for
address names. IPv4 and IPv6 both use addresses and port numbers. AF_LOCAL
just uses a string, which is a file system path. But I think that specifying
an op for just one address format is too narrow.
Nicholas Clark
unseekable file? What does tell return?
IIRC sfio returned the number of bytes read (or written) for an unseekable
file. Is that useful?
Presumably seek() on a buffered stream discards any written but not flushed
data.
Mmm. Flush opcode needed for buffered streams?
Nicholas Clark
if miniparrot is built
by layering Parrot IO onto C's stdio.
3STAT_ISDEV
Whether the file is a device such as a terminal or a disk.
Don't we need to get more flexible than this?
At least file/terminal/socket/character special/block special/fifo/symlink/door
Nicholas Clark
e marked as
"cacheable" and the JIT can see a cacheable function taking only constants,
and hence constant fold it)
Nicholas Clark
On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 02:53:29PM -0600, Joshua Isom wrote:
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 1:46 PM, Nicholas Clark wrote:
>
> >On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 11:27:05AM -0800, Allison Randal wrote:
> >
> >Should the network opcodes even be loaded as standard? C et al
> >aren&
s to fnctl or ioctl given. Specifically it would be
useful to have a way to set handles non-blocking (and have the entire IO
system cope with synchronous-but-non-blocking IO, even if async IO is more
powerful still)
Nicholas Clark
n") # throw exception on failure
Oooh. Useful.
>* C returns a string representing a socket address
>[Nicholas] "I don't think that this is appropriate. It's IPv4
> specific."
>
> A more general SocketAddr PMC seems to be needed here.
I think someone else said it too, but more a SocketAddr PMC hierarchy?
At least, a PMC class for each distinct way of describing addresses, that all
fulfil a SocketAddr role.
Nicholas Clark
than a call to C? If not,
> there's probably a simpler way to handle it.
>From memory, socket addresses show up as results from C,
C, C and C/C, and are also
used as arguments to C/C
Nicholas Clark
On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 07:11:59PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> =item *
>
> C retrieves information about a file on the filesystem. It takes a
> string filename or an integer argument of a UNIX file descriptor, and an
> integer flag for the type of information reques
On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 06:40:32PM -0800, Allison Randal wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2006, at 4:06, Nicholas Clark wrote:
>
> >On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 11:27:05AM -0800, Allison Randal wrote:
> >
> > =head2 Network I/O Opcodes
> >
> >
> >Functionality wise, th
#define AF_INET 2 /* internetwork: UDP, TCP, etc. */
#define AF_INET628 /* IPv6 */
What about
#define AF_UNIX 1 /* standardized name for AF_LOCAL */
? (of the rest, this is the most widely used)
Nicholas Clark
t us just write the first
implementation, and allow people to write platform specific optimisations
later?
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:17:21PM -0700, chromatic wrote:
> On Thursday 06 April 2006 14:04, Bernhard Schmalhofer via RT wrote:
>
> > 'punie' seems to be the only maintained language implementation using
> > Perl* PMCs.
>
> What about Ponie?
Ponie isn't using them.
Nicholas Clark
with the temporary on the
stack it doesn't get garbage collected.
This is a hunch. But as far as I can make out there is no semantic difference
in the change you made to the C, so it should not have changed anything.
Nicholas Clark
xx/xxx.pl" at the top.
Maybe it's better to run it on a fresh checkout of the parrot source code,
rather than a built tree.
Nicholas Clark
r"
when asked what type it is, because the internal representation would be a
mere implementation detail. But I'd expect a type .Float to behave much like
a C float and coerce values fed to it, rather than metamorphose to their
type.
Was this built in morphing the cause of the problems Leo was describing in
trying to make a user defined class that is derived from Int?
Nicholas Clark
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 06:15:32PM +0200, Leopold Toetsch wrote:
>
> On Apr 7, 2006, at 19:38, Nicholas Clark wrote:
>
> >>-STRING *fill = CONST_STRING(interpreter, info->flags &
> >>FLAG_ZERO ? "0" : " ");
>
> >
>
; when encountering a
string literal with bytes outside the range 0-127.
If so, then I assume that the behaviour of your second example is wrong - it
should also be a malformed string.
If PGE is always outputting UTF-8 literals, what stops it from always
prefixing every literal "unicode:", even if it only uses Unicode characters
0 to 127?
Nicholas Clark
width from the other 2. (That's before you get to special cases
such as Greek sigma)
Presumably therefore Dan's view was that while constants to the assembler
might well be fed in as UTF-8, the generated bytecode should be using the
tersest fixed width it can. I can see sense in this.
Nicholas Clark
properly
> setup the PMCs during 'loadlib'.
>
> pmc2c.pl should be case agnostic for both group names *and* pmc file
> names.
Case agnostic at a Unicode level?
Nicholas Clark
--
I'm looking for a job: http://www.ccl4.org/~nick/CV.html
control history is added to a Changes file, which has
each commit message along with the perforce revision number. It makes it
very easy to search for these sorts of things. I assume that it's trivial
to automate the generation of such a file for subversion, if it's desired.
Nicholas Clark
--
I'm looking for a job: http://www.ccl4.org/~nick/CV.html
esn't mean that I wouldn't like an opcode to do it for
> me. :-)
Is Parrot assembler considered a more productive language to write in than C?
If yes, is it logical to write opcodes such as this one in Parrot assembler
itself?
Nicholas Clark
On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 10:41:44AM -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2006 at 08:03:47AM -0700, Audrey Tang wrote:
> > 2006/6/24, Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >Is Parrot assembler considered a more productive language to write in than
> >
ing it might be a little while before he gets a chance to read any of
his e-mail.
Nicholas Clark
r surprising
unwary source code. And something (Amdahl mainframes?) aren't 2's complement.
Nicholas Clark
n all use it.
config/auto/gcc.pm has logic to enable gcc warnings by gcc version.
At one time we had more warnings on that we do now.
Turning the alignment warnings on gets "interesting" (for a very noisy value
of interesting) on architectures less forgiving than x86, such as sparc.
Nicholas Clark
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 10:45:29PM -0700, jerry gay wrote:
> don't forget about negative-not-a-number, and the quiet (or signaling)
Ah yes. that oxymoron.
I've never yet seen the reasons for why it exists at all. Does anyone have
a URL?
Nicholas Clark
have Solaris here, so I can't try this
The alternative approach to figuring out what is happening is to write
a program with AIO, and see what it looks like under truss.
truss is your friend :-)
Hmm. But solaris doesn't ship with a compiler, does it?
Nicholas Clark
ils/typemap?
If so, will there be the "terse" column in the typemap file to associate
"i" with "T_IV" ?
To me it would seem sensible to define the mapping from perl to C types
and from C to perl types just once, and use it both for calling external
libraries, and for being called by external things
Nicholas Clark
On Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 12:37:15PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 04:13 PM 9/29/00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >Are you suggesting that the attributes use the same mapping system as
> >the XS (or son-of-XS (XS++)) typemaps in lib/ExtUtils/typemap?
> >If so, will there be
ASCII
Then reader can fall back to parsing in the ASCII if the binary isn't
edible.
Nicholas Clark
as it goes
along, rather than bytecode being a reverse engineering of package symbol
tables.
Nicholas Clark
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 12:27:03PM -0500, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 05:32:48PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> > Were you thinking that p6 bytecode has 2 functions
> >
> > 1: putting a perl virtual machine into suspended animation (or cloning i
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 02:38:01PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 06:42 PM 10/3/00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >But I seem to remember someone who should know (Tom Christiansen?) at
> >YAPC::Europe being confident that bytecode would never be faster.
>
> Really? I t
ou can do is something like (void *, ...).
(Perl_Interpreter *, ...)
surely?
[Having seen the pTHX_ appear all over perl5]
Nicholas Clark
e very doable.
To allow the lexer to influence the tokeniser, what characters are we
going to use in (? ) for smoke and mirrors extensions? (?s) and (?m) are
already taken.
[Seriously, I was under the impression that the perl tokenizer was
influenced by the state of the lexer]
Nicholas Clark
. Hence if perl6 contains a generic parser powerful enough to
parse perl (if this can be done), to me this would suggest that it would
allow a lot of other people to use it to rapidly implement parsers for just
about anything else.
Nicholas Clark
r)
and MOVing them to the PC, or loading the PC from a branch table in memory.
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 12:05:22PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 05:02 PM 10/25/00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 11:45:54AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
> > > I vaguly can see a TIL that uses machine code linkage (real machine code
> > > ju
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 05:21 PM 10/25/00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >"fixup sections" sound horribly like something I've read in association
> >with a.out or ELF shared libraries. (I forget which)
>
> Both, th
means fixup unshared bytecode
> at load time (or page fault time, or whatever). :-)
I thought so far we'd only had "use more".
I like "use less" and what it offers us:
use English; can be replaced with use less "line noise"; :-)
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 06:23:20PM +0100, Tom Hughes wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Specific example where you can't:
> > on ARM, the branch instructions (B and BL) are PC relative, but on
ld mean things like
$a=$b wouldn't actually copy anything (wasting time and (shared) memory
pages) until either $a or $b got changed.
[I have this feeling that there's a bit of this already in sv.c, but I'm
not sure how much]
Nicholas Clark
token is needed. How about `\C' for chunk? Or is this
> already taken?
\C Match a single C char (octet) even under utf8.
however, with UTF we now have thousands more glyphs to use as
escapes in regexp :-)
[aargh. I'm off topic for this list]
> Hmm, what about string comparisions? `eq' and friends should simply
> conmtinue to work as usual on the string contents. Do we need some
> kind of meta-eq to be able to compare the attribs also?
I think that that becomes a method call on one of the scalars.
Nicholas Clark
with the code for this.
>
> Agreed.
How does the regexp replacement engine cope with this? By implementing
all replacements as substr() type ops?
[or behaving as if it implements... whilst cheating and doing it direct for
scalars it understands?]
Or don't we need to work this out at this time?
Nicholas Clark
its value
Are those end members in a continuum? or are hybrids of the 2 impossible?
Am I barking up the wrong tree completely?
Nicholas Clark
cess. I'm uncomfortable leaving such decisions
> to such a small number of people. How about nominating/electing a
If PDDs start as "Proposed" without needing any approval does this remove
the problem of a small group having a stranglehold?
Nicholas Clark
mpting to make pp_add in
perl5 do this sort of thing, so I may be missing a better way of doing it]
> But that probably doesn't help much. Let me throw together something more
> detailed and we'll see where we go from there.
Hopefully it will cover the above case too.
Nicholas Clark
ist Scientist and the
Church of the Latter Day Saints in your list of organisations.
Do we need a sub list perl6-conspiracy-theories so that we can keep the
main lists free for other discussions?
Nicholas Clark
nks that
perl5 Configure found (for our information on user platforms)
(void flags, volatile, const, headers absent, functions absent)
]
Nicholas Clark
ing useful for someone to maintain on the meta-design
list. (Is maintaining such a document an "apprentice" job? (see perl6-meta))
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:15:07PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> What I'm thinking is that we'll have a scoped destruct stack that gets
> pointers to variables that explicitly need destruction, and as we exit
> levels of scope we call the destructors of those variables that need it.
> (They can
(or anything else for that
matter), just that I'd feel we'll have a more portable design if we
don't constrain our choices now]
Nicholas Clark
27;t pick up squirrels. The pointed end bites]
Not that that's important. But fflush(NULL) is, and we still seem to run
into that one on one current platform
But I agree with what you're saying.
Nicholas Clark
essing that Dan is planning to take advantage of addition and
multiplication being commutative.
sv1->add[UNKNOWN](sv2)
swaps to
sv2->add[NUM](sv1)
(It's "obvious" in the usual way - not obvious until you see it. I've been
prodding in pp_add in perl5, so I've been thinking about these sort of
things)
Nicholas Clark
st reference, and turn any
other references to it to dust (or undef))
SMITE is hard work if you're not omniscient, as you have to go round
searching for everyone who might refer to it, or fake it by holding
a back reference to everyone who references you.
Nicholas Clark
its lessons?
Probably more useful than backwards-forwards polite, well reasoned but
ultimately theoretical arguments.
[Was it medieval scientists who preferred reasoning to experiments?]
Nicholas Clark
7;t make it faster, just claws back the
slowdown other parts of my provisional changes have made]
hangon, there was a point that was supposed to back up. Accuracy is needed,
but I fear that a single general scheme to deliver this will slow down the
common cases.
Nicholas Clark
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 06:05:30PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
> Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 02:20:44PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
> > > If we assume that ints and nums are perl builtins, and that some people
> > &g
ess $c has overloaded =
this is probably a language issue, and waiting on the language spec
Nicholas Clark
e
substitution part of regex could easily be re-expressed as a series
of substr operations.
This doesn't answer the real challenge which is matching.
Nicholas Clark
ake
longer because we're doing it less efficiently.
Just a passing thought. Extrapolated up from 1 RISC CPU I know quite well.
Nicholas Clark
arsers than I do. (I know nothing, so I try to keep quiet)
Nicholas Clark
LL (or "string") or something token but different from all
real numbers if the scalar isn't a number, which will prompt numeric
conversion to the best sort of number as need-be. (so "3.1 + 5i" would do
the right thing. presumably complex floating point)
And (like perl5) if you alter a numeric scalar as a string, it
becomes just a string
[so {(3.1 + 5i) . ''} is a string]
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:00:47AM -0600, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> struct {
> IV whatitis;
more a perl5 question - why IV not int?
int might be smaller and "more natural" (your words)
eg why does looks_like_number return IV not int? and various other bits
of the perl API u
th TomC and Ilya would agree
on something - that this is not desirable behaviour
(TomC because it's not backwards compatible, Ilya because you can alter
a scalar's value as a side effect of accessing it, so what a scalar
appears to contain becomes a function of its access history, not simply
and solely what you assigned to it)
Nicholas Clark
e may not
be 1 top to the tree (at least for builtin numbers). Which may also hold
for strings.
> We old'ns need people that don't know "it can't be done" to tell us
> how to do it - but we reserve the right to say "we tried that it didn't
> work" too.
^ because
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 05:36:05PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> >> where it is possible to get "smart" when one arg is a "special case" of
> >> the other.
> >
> >>
ight take quite a lot of perl5
messy guts hacking to make perl5's compiler good enough to bootstrap a
clean perl6 compiler to compile the perl systems to a binary.
Nicholas Clark
ngs possible.
We seem to be arguing about the best method for making it *im*possible
to use anything but the initially-chosen-implementation language to
implement perl. This feels like a bad thing.
Nicholas Clark
the compiler
couldn't do native 32 bits.
Nicholas Clark
'I/O complete' marker so async I/O
> will work out properly.
Nicholas Clark
e
> >portable part of perl6 will have now idea how far it can go
> >with native numbers.
>
> Yes, they will. Each chip family, at least. I'm thinking we'll have a
> generic CHECK_OVERFLOW macro that's redefined on a per-CPU basis and
> handled by whoever's doing the port for that system, with some generic
Were you (both) meaning integer, floating point, or both sorts of overflow
detection here?
Nicholas Clark
ndlers other than default or ignore assigned to it.
Would that be an acceptable perl5 compromise?
[follow up to p5p please]
Nicholas Clark
eir new equivalent) as buffers for the IO system rather than
plain pointers and lengths, then I'd consider it sensible to consider this
design goal met if async i/o subsystem has a dependency on the scalar buffer
subsystem (or at least one part of it, as SVs in turn might make requirements
on memory allocation APIs). That's still not the whole perl runtime though.
Nicholas Clark
going to do this for the general case)
(java does do it, but as it's all going through Java's windowing library,
the implementation know where the windowing system calls are going to be)
Upshot is that threading can be written if need be, so that's one less
(admittedly now obscure) platform that isn't excluded by threading.
Nicholas Clark
been suggested, with the speed up hack for the common case.
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 05:19:16PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
> Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mused:
> > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 04:03:49PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
> > > BTW, should the vtable include all the mutator operators too, ie
> > > ++, +=
the inside of another integer
scalar looks like, and that 2 + 3 doesn't overflow.
Hmm. += isn't another opcode
it's a special case of a = b + c where the PMCs for a and b are the same
thing. And I see no real reason why it can't be part of the + entry.
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:24:27PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 06:12 PM 2/7/2001 +0000, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >But I don't like the thought of going in and out of a lot of generic
> >routines for
> >
> >$a = 3;
> >$a += 2;
> >
> >when t
like the idea of making the bootstrap process more of a
"microperl followed by configure probing written as a perl script" rather than
"complex shell scripts followed by miniperl and a few Makefile.PLs", which is
one of the possibilities having perl5 around would offer.
Nicholas Clark
he system-specific crap wouldn't show up in
> the generated C files, so they'd actually be *easier* to handle.
Cool. I'd been failing to understand that the intent was to make human
readable C files (as opposed to obfuscation for cpp)
Nicholas Clark
ssent to everything I have ever said or
> will ever say. ;-)
I don't think "will ever say" holds. And I think I'd phrase it as
"ongoing silence". But apart from that, it seems to be a working
assumption for design proposals.
Nicholas Clark
7;t in danger yet.
However, Larry has already commented on the danger of running out of LOTR
quotes:
http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2000-02/msg00369.html
Nicholas Clark
s us anything in terms of speed. If that turns out to be wrong,
> I'm all for changing it.
At the risk of contagious MACRO-itis might it be an idea to define clear
macros to get this information out? That way it is possible to change the
underlying representation from something packed to unpacked whenever it
seems appropriate without breaking anything that plays by the rules.
Nicholas Clark
me
points it becomes necessary to have an unsigned type for "the largest
integer" which in this case would be 72 bits.
[and on a machine with nothing larger than 32 will be 32]
The type that used to be known as "unsigned long"
[before "unsigned long long" appeared on some machines and made life confusing]
Nicholas Clark
signed integers overflow. It's undefined by ANSI, so it's legal.
(Thanks Helmut for persevering until we tracked this one down)
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 01:55:57PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 06:49 PM 3/8/2001 +0000, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> >On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 11:43:31AM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > > I was thinking maybe (length/4)*31-bit 2s complement to make portable
> > > overflow
bove work on 64 bit Irix?
The overflow in c = a + b is undefined behaviour in C. Irix gave the
bit value that was expected, but didn't execute subsequence > conditions
in the way that would be expected by an assembly programmer.
[However, I like the elegant sign bit testing logic you give.]
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:28:48PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> At 08:43 PM 3/8/2001 +0000, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> I think most processors that do 32x32 multiply provide a way to get the
> 64-bit result. Whether *we* can is another matter, of course, but if
> platform folks wan
the original UTF8
and a (cached copy) normalized form
but at this point I'll shut up as I expect I'm ignorant of an RFC on how this
works without hitting either of the above problems.
Nicholas Clark
8 bit xterm.
Let alone some crufty 7 bit serial login.
I think it would be a bad thing to effectively mandate that to use certain
features you had to use a Unicode aware editing system
Nicholas Clark
nkers.
Presumably there are internal functions that aren't part of the public
API, but because they are used in more than 1 source file do need external
linkage.
Or were your "linkers are dead-stupid" words meaning that we can't tell
linkers to partially link libperl.a and then declare a whole bunch of
symbols that now can't be used for any purpose external to libperl.a
Nicholas Clark
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