btw... as someone pointed here, I need to clarify something I said: I didn't
mentioned Eliot because I was talking about the plugins...
When we talk about the VM itself, the number of people who are capable of work
on it reduces from 10 to maybe 5 (Eliot and some others like Igor... but
certain
you're right... I will cut&paste and write something extra next days :)
On Apr 17, 2013, at 4:25 PM, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> Very interesting email, worth a post somewhere.
>
>
> 2013/4/17 Esteban Lorenzano
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 11:23 AM, kilon wrote:
>
> > Anyway, my only objec
True, you have a point.
2013/4/17 Igor Stasenko
> On 17 April 2013 13:34, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> > Of course we can still understand with an all in image style (leveraging
> > ObjCBridge and NB).
> >
> > But it will be hard to study how things are occuring internally when
> leaving
> > th
Very interesting email, worth a post somewhere.
2013/4/17 Esteban Lorenzano
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 11:23 AM, kilon wrote:
>
> > Anyway, my only objection is the fact that we will have twice the code to
> > maintain and more to worry about.
>
> let me explain this little thing a bit...
>
Esteban I was replying to PhillipeBeck post, I think that is what he meant,
to move things to smalltalk side instead of relying to external libraries.
Unless I misunderstood his post .
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On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:35 PM, kilon wrote:
>
> Porting everything to smalltalk is not a realistic or a very useful
> scenario. Whos is going to port Cocoa to Morphic
> come on lets see some hands raising :D
The idea never was to move everything. In fact is just the opposite. Morphic
is, from a
Can NB also disassamble code called ? I know that gdb can do this, and since
NB generates assembly code for
the FFI calls I was wondering if it can disassemble them too.
Assembly is definetly not as pretty as smalltalk but can be useful none the
less to look at internals.
Porting everything to
Igor Stasenko wrote
> Well, you always have a choice to write everything from scratch :)
These are not mutually exclusive. What we're doing now by harnessing
external libraries is prototyping - we're on the first step of "make it
work, make it right, make it fast" ( and maybe getting sone #3 for f
On 17 April 2013 13:34, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> Of course we can still understand with an all in image style (leveraging
> ObjCBridge and NB).
>
> But it will be hard to study how things are occuring internally when leaving
> the image. e.g. using components from the OSX Frameworks for things
Of course we can still understand with an all in image style (leveraging
ObjCBridge and NB).
But it will be hard to study how things are occuring internally when
leaving the image. e.g. using components from the OSX Frameworks for things
like text editors may be powerful but ultimately, this will
Well said, Esteban, well said.
This is a same idea and message which i wanted to deliver doing my
NativeBoost presentation at
2012's Smalltalks conference in Puerto Madryn.
So, we are pretty well aligned with our vision :)
On 17 April 2013 12:53, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Apr 17, 2013
On 17 April 2013 12:19, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:26 AM, "p...@highoctane.be"
> wrote:
>
> Regarding this, of the key points of Pharo is that most of the system is
> able to be looked at from a lot of angles in source code form.
>
>
> I do not understand this..
Hi,
On Apr 17, 2013, at 11:23 AM, kilon wrote:
> Anyway, my only objection is the fact that we will have twice the code to
> maintain and more to worry about.
let me explain this little thing a bit...
Do you think that code doesn't need to be maintained and taken care how it is
right now?
Hi Phil,
On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:26 AM, "p...@highoctane.be" wrote:
> Regarding this, of the key points of Pharo is that most of the system is able
> to be looked at from a lot of angles in source code form.
I do not understand this... why do you think that now you can do that and with
an all-i
On 17 April 2013 08:34, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is just the cairo library rendering in a quartz format. No native
> quartz access yet, so...
>
> 1) yes... is 100% compatible with Cairo (because it is Cairo :)
> 2) no GPU, no OpenGL, just optimized rendering (one of this days I will
On 17 April 2013 11:23, kilon wrote:
> Estaban correct me if I am wrong but AFAIK MACOS GUI is based on opengl and
> it is hardware accelerated. I hear the same applied for Linux GUIs too in
> large.
>
Not at all. It is same story as with Athens:
- GUI uses Cocoa framework. Sure you can use OpenG
Estaban correct me if I am wrong but AFAIK MACOS GUI is based on opengl and
it is hardware accelerated. I hear the same applied for Linux GUIs too in
large.
Anyway, my only objection is the fact that we will have twice the code to
maintain and more to worry about. As I said I am on macos , I am a
On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:27 AM, p...@highoctane.be wrote:
> Regarding this, of the key points of Pharo is that most of the system is able
> to be looked at from a lot of angles in source code form.
>
> Removing that ability is not going to be nice.
>
>
But what do you actually get from a graphi
Regarding this, of the key points of Pharo is that most of the system is
able to be looked at from a lot of angles in source code form.
Removing that ability is not going to be nice.
But this doesn't mean we can't go the other way around of course, allowing
it to embrace new technical possibiliti
Hi,
This is just the cairo library rendering in a quartz format. No native quartz
access yet, so...
1) yes... is 100% compatible with Cairo (because it is Cairo :)
2) no GPU, no OpenGL, just optimized rendering (one of this days I will write
the novel "how we render world canvas nowadays"... i
Hi
2013/4/17 Fernando Olivero
> NICE work Esteban!
>
> Does the AthensQuartzSurface, support all Athens related code? (paths,
> paints,etc..) I will be more than happy to move away from the software
> rendering of the current cairo backend.
>
Is Quartz work by GPU? is it use openGL?
>
> Ferna
NICE work Esteban!
Does the AthensQuartzSurface, support all Athens related code? (paths,
paints,etc..) I will be more than happy to move away from the software
rendering of the current cairo backend.
Fernando
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> not to say about effici
not to say about efficiency.
I've been doing some cpu cycle tests.
Rendering a 1600@1200 gradient to world canvas (repeat each 50ms): ~90% cpu
consumption
Same test, but sending it direct to window canvas using bridge: ~40% cpu
consumption
so... we are in the good path :)
Esteban
On Apr
On 16 April 2013 19:09, kilon wrote:
> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen
>
> ha
>
> ha
>
> and
>
> ha
>
> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross
> platform.
>
> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do
> a
On 16 April 2013 19:31, kilon wrote:
> Well to be fair any language that respects itself has an ObjC bridge , and
> its definetly a big deal if you want to embrace iOS too. So definetly the
> thumbs up from me. I am no way against this.
>
>
well, it is good to stand on the shoulder of giant, but a
Well to be fair any language that respects itself has an ObjC bridge , and
its definetly a big deal if you want to embrace iOS too. So definetly the
thumbs up from me. I am no way against this.
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why do you think this is the final step?
this is just the first one in a long run... and when we arrive to the goal,
pharo will be both: cross platform + [your preferred system here] first citizen
:)
god, forgive this men of little faith... :P
Esteban
On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:12 PM, Benjamin
w
We mainly say that each travel has to start with one step
Ben
On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, kilon wrote:
> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen
>
> ha
>
> ha
>
> and
>
> ha
>
> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross
> platform.
>
>
And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen
ha
ha
and
ha
I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross
platform.
Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do
any harm ;)
--
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http://for
On 16 April 2013 18:02, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> meanwhile, Esteban works on ObjC bridge ;)
>
>
> Go go go, Esteban!
We no need no Cairo on Macs, while we can use Quartz directly :)
--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
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