Keep this fight off the forum! Mail it directly to the person(s) you want
to address, if you think it appropriate.
Did they not teach you manners when you were young? Obviously not.
Most probably you will start shouting at me now. Send your insults to my
given eMail address, not to the forum.
:
01.08.2002 Thema: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. -
Flame start!
12:33
Bitte
for anything that
may be perceived as rude or an attitude problem.
Please see below,
JaMi
* * * * * * * * * *
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs
The winner of a useless personal argument is the one who first realizes it
is useless and who therefore walks away from it, leaving the other(s)
raving before an audience which no longer includes this winner (or at least
he gives little or no sign of still being present).
One who is most
: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!
Ian -
I have waited well over a week here now, thinking about whether or not I
should even respond to your little tirade.
I have walked away from responding to this some 20 or 30 times or more,
during that period.
is that Tony appears to have
try this one for stability
open new schematic
open ispecotr , right clik on the mid pane
- access violation reading 0x0004 every time. under win98 - protel
99se your system would die. DXP on 2000 : close the box and continue . I
have a memory sniffer and resource monitor open . it
the dependencies are?
-Original Message-
From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 7:07 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
try this one for stability
open new schematic
open ispecotr , right clik on the mid
BAM!! THAT DID IT!!!
Where is service pack 1!!
-Original Message-
From: vincent mail [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:04 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Tony Karavidas wrote:
It doesn't happen for me. I
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
As others have told you, there are reasons some programs misbehave when
they
are not the root cause
Has Rhys got a new mobile? I haven't been able to get in contact with
him
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 4:25 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
- Original Message
, July 31, 2002 11:25 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel
On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
As others have told you, there are reasons some
You make your point very clear, Ian. I am with you.
Concerning the bug list you manage:
Did you add the bug in gerber generation of renamed layers and the bug in
translating layer information to Specctra to the list, which I described
some weeks ago? I never received any comment to these mails.
A pragmatic approach :
When JaMi would reveal his adress, we could send him a new mouse
and close this suject. They are in the order of 20$.
Rene
Tony Karavidas wrote:
I can see it now, you're probably one of those guys that sits clearly on one
side of the hardware/software fence and
Well said... I definitely appreciate Ian's contribution to this forum.
Duane
-Original Message-
From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:51 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!
On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002
Ian wrote:
I will put it to the group. Who has played the more constructive role in
the forum over the past years. Who would you most like to shut-up?
You are an asset to this group Ian.
Brock
* Tracking #:
Matt Pobursky wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:38 -0700, JaMi Smith wrote:
Nothing crashes but Protel ! ! !
FWIW, nothing crashes on my system but Protel either. And I mean
NOTHING. My drivers are all up-to-date (even my Intellimouse drivers!).
My Win2K SP2 is patched up-to-date. My
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:20:07 -0400, Watnoski, Michael wrote:
Greetings all,
Another two cents:
Protel has been my biggest headache as far as crashes due to
upgrades of other programs. I would expect that if Protel needed specific
versions of .dlls to run, it should have written them and
Finger hovering over the JaMi block...
Ian
Hehe, well said Ian. I don't think I ever had to kill filter anyone on
a mailing list before :-) Here's hoping I never have to.
JaMi, please chill out a little, this isn't a playground. These
arguments have been fun to watch but are getting
Like a Mac?
:)
I dislike Macs for many other reasons, but they have app management down
much better than Bill G.
-Original Message-
From: Matt Pobursky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel
On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:12:18 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
I have only had 1 crash of Protel 99SE in the year or so I've been
running it under Win 2K. That day, I had been chopping parts out of a
bunch of libraries, and putting them into other libraries, and all
sorts of odd things that I don't do
:51
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!
On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject
On 04:09 PM 1/08/2002 -0500, Matt Pobursky said:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:20:07 -0400, Watnoski, Michael wrote:
Greetings all,
Another two cents:
Protel has been my biggest headache as far as crashes due to
upgrades of other programs. I would expect that if Protel needed specific
Matt,
I agree, that kind of thing should be immediately looked at by Protel
programmers. I think it's a little late to complain about anything with 99SE
and expect something to be done about it. However, if a known 99SE (or 98 or
whatever) bug has propagated into DXP, then we should scream to
Ian,
well said. People have tried to hint before that it has gone over the top.
Igor
-Original Message-
From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 6:51 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!
On 11:24 PM 31/07
Yep, or like any of the various *nix flavors.
There's just no reason to expect Windows and other applications to
respect your library or config files when placed in common areas. (Do I
sound paranoid? ;-) I prefer to think of it as cautious...) Of course,
leaving other's library files alone is
Tony,
Sorry for the delayed response - just now catching up.
See below -
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Just because some software
Bugs.
Tony,
Sorry for the delayed response - just now catching up.
See below -
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Just because
See comments added below...
- Original Message -
From: Fabian Hartery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Joel,
I will jump in to the fire on this one to say that 99SE
Please See my comments below:
As to this comment... I haven't a problem with listing the software that I
originally installed on my PC. However to question the trustworthiness of
my
statement, this I find a bit insulting. To say the very least!
Prog's as follows: (in order of installation)
For instance, I was happily running Office 97 under NT when the computer
guys decided to give me an upgrade to Office 2000. Whether this event was
related or not with other upgrades, shortly thereafter I got a failure to
Speaking of upgrades breaking things, I once had a machine that would
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For instance, I was happily running Office 97 under NT when the computer
guys decided to give me an upgrade to Office 2000. Whether this event was
related or not with other upgrades, shortly thereafter I got a failure to
Speaking of upgrades breaking things, I
, what's a problem here?
Igor
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 26 July 2002 9:11 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Gisbert,
Please se my response intermixed with your comment -
JaMi
: Sunday, July 28, 2002 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Jami,
don't take it personally. This is a discussion forum and not a winner-gets-to-live
arena. We have several Dell machines with
identical HW and identical SW. The only difference are the M$ and Protel licence
numbers
And Microsoft did fix the bug in the Intellimouse drivers
before JaMi got
his
machine from Dell! The fix drive just did not ship with the
Dell machines.
Updating the Intellimouse driver to the latest driver has fixed this
bug
on
every machine I know to have exhibited it. I
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Rob,
Almost exactly 6 months ago, on Jan 23, you said almost the exact same
thing
in a reply to a post in this forum by Joel Hammer with the Subject
It just kills me that so many people are telling you (Jami) similar things
without being in Protel's camp and you still refuse to believe it's POSSIBLE
the blame lies elsewhere...
No one on this list says Protel is free of bugs. We ALL KNOW Protel has
bugs, like most all apps. We just don't
Joel,
I will jump in to the fire on this one to say that 99SE is completely stable
on my machine. On the P-CAD subject, I hate it's ridiculous library
management regime that requires a pristene netlist before design work can go
to the circuit board level. The number of short cuts that must be
I probably did not respond because I got busy doing work and deleted the message
without reading it as I do with the majority of messages on this list.
Having worked for a major PC Manufacturer it in no way surprised me that Dell
would ship an older driver. The driver they ship is what they
until recently
wasn't quite right.
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:11 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Gisbert,
Please se my response intermixed with your comment
Right on Steve!!! :)
I could go for a beer about now!
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:35 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Wow - 52 mails in this thread (53 now!) I must say I've
On 11:11 PM 24/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Thank you Brian
JaMi
Brian is not talking about the same thing - this always seems to get
confused. Brain is talking about Protel's on-going issue with auto-pan. I
think we all call that broken bug time- about on a par with Excel's scrolling.
I recommend the pragmatic approach.
From Linux experiments I meanswhile have :
1 spare Serial mouse
1 spare PS/2 mouse
1 spare USB Mouse
1 spare Graphic card
1 spare SCSI card
It takes less nerves than your approach and solves
the problem faster - perhaps.
Rene
JaMi Smith wrote:
[ mouse
, Thank you Brian,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On 11:11 PM 24/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Thank you Brian
JaMi
Brian
-3631
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
In a message dated 7/23/2002 11:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I also don't
clip
The real issue is that statements like:
No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly
what I'm using
for a mouse.
I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000.
gloss over the problem. The operative phrase is (Not for me at
least), and
that is a primary
: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:29 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Ivan,
Writing dates as MM/DD/YY is the same as writing time as
HH:SS:MM. It does not seem logical. There should be linear
ascendence
On 04:32 PM 23/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
I got tired of you complaining about it when you first joined the forum
(and began slagging the software and those of us with different points of
view) and showed you that
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:28, Tony Karavidas wrote:
OK everybody, this emoticon ;) generally means 'kidding', 'teasing',
'joshing', 'joking', 'pulling your leg', etc. It takes the seriousness OFF
the preceding text.
I think Ivan was 'pulling your leg'
However, with 240V you probably have more
-Original Message-
From: Katinka Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 24 July 2002 08:36
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
[cut]
Besides I thought it was current that killed and ours is half
yours ;o) (I
know that a given voltage will cause
JaMi,
aren't you mixing up some things in this discussion?
See my comments below.
I also eventually found this forum, which has been of some help. The
problem
here is that in general everybody refuses to realize or acknowledge that
this (as with many other things) is a bug, notwithstanding the
Hi,
The symtoms currently exhibited on this forum is commonly known as PDRS
(Pre-DXP Release Syndrom).It effects people in different ways especially
relating to the mains voltage, current and frequency of their home
appliances.
PLEASE Protel release DXP NOW for the sanity of this and other
ago I had the Microsoft wheel mouse problem. I upgraded the
Intellimouse drivers and everything was fine. Jami, have you tried that?
Steve.
-Original Message-
From: Andy Gulliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 24 July 2002 09:21
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
As far as the Zoom issue. It was obviously a design decision.
As such with user
interface decisions, some people will like it, and some
won't. If the majority
find the decision useable and can adapt to it in a
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
The real issue is that statements like:
No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly
what I'm using
for a mouse.
I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000.
gloss over the problem. The
Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:58 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
The real issue is that statements
PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
I'm tired of talking to you about this. I understand it's
] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Here is my take on the situation:
If, every mouse video card combination I have used to date
auto-scrolls manipulates any other software's windows fine
without bugs clunking, WHY should there be a special case for Protel
where bugs should be acceptable when you
Don't you think this sentence could be true: IT IS MICROSOFT'S MOUSE DRIVER
FAULT AND IT IS THEIR(MS) RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX THE BUG
And Microsoft did fix the bug in the Intellimouse drivers before JaMi got his
machine from Dell! The fix drive just did not ship with the Dell machines.
) 624-3631
- Original Message -
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Just guessing, but maybe this mouse morass is Delphi's fault? It may be
true
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Don't you think this sentence could be true: IT IS MICROSOFT'S MOUSE DRIVER
FAULT AND IT IS THEIR(MS) RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX
Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Look, can someone just give me the source for the PCB software, I'll properly fix
the stupid mouse issue. For any
]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
I'm tired of talking to you about this. I understand it's a problem for
you
and it's terrible that's it causing you so much grief. But as easily as
you
say IT IS PROTEL'S
Thank you Brian
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Here is my take on the situation:
If, every mouse video card combination
OK Ian, I will elaborate . . .
On 07:22 PM 22/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Speaking of Protel Bugs . . .
What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP?
1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there
since Protel 98 has not been fixed.
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:37 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
OK Ian, I will elaborate . . .
On 07:22 PM 22/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Speaking
?
TC
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 11:53 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Speaking of Protel Bugs . . .
What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed
: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
* Tracking #: FEA6A5084AAA1B4FBBCEA608A0CD8D2459FF9143
I guess this means we should write the time as minutes/seconds/hours then
;-)
Dave Buckley
-Original Message-
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 23 July 2002 15:24
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
rant on
I also don't
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Is this what happens when you write software applications down under
when
everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot
answer your technical questions about the software?
el snippo
rant on
I also
:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
In a message dated 7/23/2002 11:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the
world. I
frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY
, July 23, 2002 8:47 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Is this what happens when you write software applications down under
when
everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
In a message dated 7/23/2002 11:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I also don't like the way dates are written in other
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
snip
Protel 99 SE is at a minimum very instable with Microsoft Mouse Drivers,
especially with Microsoft Intellimosue software and a wheel
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
I got tired of you complaining about it when you first joined the forum
(and began slagging the software and those of us with different points of
view) and showed you that you can have it any way you like. I don't use
my
Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Is this what happens when you write software applications down
under
when
everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed
and cannot
answer
On yeah, here's another bug that has to do with the wheel mouse, but it has
NOTHING to do with Protel.
When I view a PDF file online, acrobat is conveniently loaded within IE6's
window. If I scroll through the document after I know more than a few pages
are loaded, I get a dialog information box
AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Is this what happens when you write software applications down under
when
everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot
answer your technical questions about the software?
Maybe the down under has
On 12:00 PM 23/07/2002 +0930, Terry Creer said:
Actually, now that beta testing is completed (well, according to the press
release yesterday it is), does that mean that the beta testers can actually
let the cat out of the bag?
TC
No.
Agree with Toni. I like it, too.
Igor
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 12:48 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
On 07:22 PM 22/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Speaking of Protel Bugs . . .
What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP?
1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there
since Protel 98 has not been fixed.
What problem?
2. ) I am also betting
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