Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

I'm interested in the answers you get to the first and last of your questions but the middle one I can do. The under used POWDER Recommendation allows you to make statements about resources based on URI patterns (with due semantic integrity [1]) - which may or may not be useful to you. See http

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Ruben, 2 things I'm aware of and have implemented: - URI templates: Linked Data API vocabulary https://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/API_Vocabulary Graphity reuses api:uriTemplate and api:itemTemplate to match request URIs against ontology classes. The actual template syntax is reused fr

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Ruben, I haven’t used it (or really read the spec) but you might be interested in taking a look at the Linked Data Platform 1,2], which provides some patterns for expressing create/update/delete hypermedia controls in RDF. I’d be interested to hear what your specific use case is. //Ed [1]

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Ruben, greetings. On 2013 Nov 20, at 11:23, Ruben Verborgh wrote: > Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent hypermedia > controls in RDF? You _might_ find it interesting to read about HyTime (the Wikipedia page has reasonable starting links

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Phil, Thanks for the pointer. POWDER is definitely interesting and relevant, but I’m a bit hesitant to apply regexing. In general, I’m quite a fan of opaque URLs; that is, let the server maintain full control. While HTML GET forms are a level-breaker in that regard, I like the strictness abo

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Martynas, > - URI templates: Linked Data API vocabulary > https://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/API_Vocabulary Cool, I do like that. Have you thought about extending to RFC6570? Do you know about usage of this vocabulary? The one thing that I like less is the notion of endpoints. Whi

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Ed, CC: Mark Baker, I've actually been part of the LDP group; I fully agreed with Mark's concern on the lack of hypermedia controls [1]. LDP is based on a set of agreements, not on a set of dynamic affordances. Would have loved to see a proposal such as this one [2] make it, but it was then cla

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Norman, Interesting pointer, thanks, I'm amazed to see this existed for so long! > "HyTime defines a set of hypertext-oriented element types that [let] document > authors to build hypertext and multimedia presentations in a standardized > way." The issue is probably to integrate this on the

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Ahh, I see you are (at least) two steps ahead of me. Thanks for sending along those references to previous conversation. I’m still curious about your use case :-) //Ed On Nov 20, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: > Hi Ed, > CC: Mark Baker, > > I've actually been part of the LDP group;

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Ed, Forgot to answer this part: > I’d be interested to hear what your specific use case is. In my research [1], I'm looking at giving machines the same affordances as people. Many things on today's Web cannot be done by machines due to a lack of affordances. While RDF allows to interpret da

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Ruben, You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]? On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:23:08 +, Ruben Verborgh wrote: > Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent > hypermedia controls in RDF? > > Basically, I'm looking for any of the following: > - represen

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: Hi Ruben, You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]? On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 11:23:08 +, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Do we have other approaches besides RDF Forms [1] to represent hypermedia controls in RDF? Basically, I'm look

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:06 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > > Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available > > as standalone JSON-LD file: > > > > http://purl.org/hydra/core > > Note, there's a content negotiation pr

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Markus, > You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]? Ah, there you are! Welcome ;-) >> - representing hyperlinks in RDF (in addition to subject/object URLs) > hydra:Resource along with hydra:Link covers that: http://bit.ly/1b9IK32 And it does it the way I like: resou

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

>> Server: cloudflare-nginx > All fine at my end though so everything should work. Not sure if it's of any help, but CloudFlare doesn't do content negotiation; i.e., as soon as one representation is cached, it always serves that one, regardless of any Accept headers sent by subsequent clients. (An

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > Hi Ruben, > > You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]? Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit from; stripping out i

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:22 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 2:00 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > > On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > >> But I am looking for Turtle, hence: > >> > >> curl -ILH "Accept: text/turtle"http://purl.org/hydra/core > >> > >> :-)

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: Awesome! Welcome on board:-) [1]https://github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues/5 SeeAlso: http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/https/github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues -- Linked Data URI for Hydra Issues on Github. -- Regard

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

+public-hydra since there are a couple of things which we should look at there as well On Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: > >> - representing hyperlinks in RDF (in addition to subject/object > >> URLs) > > > > hydra:Resource along with hydra:Link covers that: > > http:

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 4:18 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: Anyway, do you have a URL for a Turtle doc? No, as I said, at the moment I don't serve a Turtle version. Of course you can use a translator to turn the JSON-LD into Turtle (but you know that).. here's a link http://bit.ly/hydra-core-ttl just in

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: [1]http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ > >[2]http://www.w3.org/community/hydra/ > >Markus, > >Is there a JSON-LD or Turtle version of this vocabulary? Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available as standalone JSON-LD f

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Kingsley, On Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:16 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 6:14 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > > Hi Ruben, > > > > You probably already expected me asking this :-) Why not Hydra [1]? [...] > > > > [1] http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ > > [2] http://www.w3.org/co

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

+public-hydra On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:11 PM, Mark Baker wrote: > Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF > Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit from; > stripping out information that isn't required (or isn't an > optimization) for

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 2:00 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Server: cloudflare-nginx Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT Content-Type: application/ld+json All fine at my end though so

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: >HTTP/1.1 200 OK >Server: cloudflare-nginx >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT >Content-Type: application/ld+json All fine at my end though so everything should work. Or did I miss something? Please note that there's no turtle serialization availabl

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:37 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > > Awesome! Welcome on board:-) > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues/5 > > SeeAlso: > http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/id/entity/https/github.com/HydraC >

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:34 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 12:46 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > >> >HTTP/1.1 200 OK > >> >Server: cloudflare-nginx > >> >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:04:33 GMT > >> >Content-Type: application/ld+json > > All fine at my end though so everything should wo

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/21/13 7:33 AM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: Sure.. it's included at the end of the spec [1 above] and also available as standalone JSON-LD file: http://purl.org/hydra/core Note, there's a content negotiation problem here, as shown by: curl -ILH "Accept: text/turtle" http://purl.org/hydra

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:43 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/21/13 4:18 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > >> Anyway, do you have a URL for a Turtle doc? > > No, as I said, at the moment I don't serve a Turtle version. Of > course you > > can use a translator to turn the JSON-LD into Turtle (

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Markus, in the Linked Data context, what is the difference between "identifier" and "hyperlink"? Last time I checked, URIs were opaque and there was no such distinction. Martynas On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > +public-hydra since there are a couple of things which we

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

> in the Linked Data context, what is the difference between > "identifier" and "hyperlink"? Last time I checked, URIs were opaque > and there was no such distinction. A link has at least two parts: a source and a destination (and probably others, such as a type or direction). An identifier can b

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hey Ruben, regarding RFC6570, I'm not planning to adopt it, since the specification is better suited for building URIs, not matching them (1.4 Limitations): "In general, regular expression languages are better suited for variable matching" I'm using JAX-RS syntax since it can be used for matching

RE: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Martynas, On Friday, November 22, 2013 3:12 PM, Martynas Jusevičius wrote: > Markus, > > in the Linked Data context, what is the difference between > "identifier" and "hyperlink"? Last time I checked, URIs were opaque > and there was no such distinction. These things quickly turn into philoso

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

A browser for example doesn't render the string http://example.com/343-224122 as a clickable link unless you mark it up as one using the tag. Yep, the A element is the thing that _affords_ clicking. it is the A element which is the affordance. Affordances don't just supply addresses, they supp

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Mike, so if RDF representation includes a triple such as a foaf:Image . is that an affordance? Because that gives me enough information to render it as http://example.com/x"/>. By the way, nothing stops me from having either. It will probably be clickable, but

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

sigh... copying to the list this time. On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM, mike amundsen wrote: > yep. In past writing/speaking I've drawn a line from James Gibson through > Donald Norman and up to Roy Fielding[1] > > > [1] http://amundsen.com/blog/archives/1109 > > mamund > +1.859.757.1449 > skype

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/22/13 3:10 PM, mike amundsen wrote: sigh... copying to the list this time. On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:10 PM, mike amundsen > wrote: yep. In past writing/speaking I've drawn a line from James Gibson through Donald Norman and up to Roy Fielding[1] [1]

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Markus Lanthaler wrote: > +public-hydra > > On Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:11 PM, Mark Baker wrote: >> Cool. Very similar to RDF Forms in important ways, though I think RDF >> Forms internalizes some useful features that Hydra could benefit from; >> stripping out

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Kingsley, > Are words such as "enables" , "facilitates" etc.. so bad that we can no > longer make statements like: > > enables name to address indirection in HTML via URIs? Basically, that it > enables exploitation URI serve dually as a document name and a content access > address i.e., a

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/25/13 8:22 AM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Hi Kingsley, Are words such as "enables" , "facilitates" etc.. so bad that we can no longer make statements like: enables name to address indirection in HTML via URIs? Basically, that it enables exploitation URI serve dually as a document name and

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Kingsley, >> In my talks, I say that enabling is stronger than affording. > Do you have a link to the talk in question? Well, it's something I always mention verbally, so "enabling" will not be on the slides. Nevertheless, here's a presentation on it for a wide audience: http://www.slidesha

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/25/13 2:33 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Hi Kingsley, In my talks, I say that enabling is stronger than affording. Do you have a link to the talk in question? Well, it's something I always mention verbally, so "enabling" will not be on the slides. Nevertheless, here's a presentation on it

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

use we ran out of virtual mail boxes ? Yikes. --Gannon ---- On Mon, 11/25/13, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Subject: Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF To: "Kingsley Idehen" Cc: "public-lod Data" Date: Monday, November 25, 2013, 1:33 PM Hi Kingsley, >> In m

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Kingsley > Note, "Affordance" doesn't show up in any of the standard dictionaries I have > access to. That said, it does have a Wiktionary entry [1], but that > particular definition doesn't actually make a case for it being immutable or > devoid of an alternative :-) Norman's "The Design o

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Gannon, > Are you thinking in terms of IPv4 or IPv6 ? I'm sorry but I lost you here… how can I IPv4/6 relate to this? Best, Ruben

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordance mamund +1.859.757.1449 skype: mca.amundsen http://amundsen.com/blog/ http://twitter.com/mamund https://github.com/mamund http://www.linkedin.com/in/mamund On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: > Hi Kingsley > > > Note, "Affordance" doesn'

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

itecture are in operation. Maybe TBL needs a 6th Star. On Mon, 11/25/13, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Subject: Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF To: "Gannon Dick" Cc: "public-lod Data" Date: Monday, November 25, 2013, 4:05 PM

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/25/13 5:03 PM, Ruben Verborgh wrote: Hi Kingsley Note, "Affordance" doesn't show up in any of the standard dictionaries I have access to. That said, it does have a Wiktionary entry [1], but that particular definition doesn't actually make a case for it being immutable or devoid of an al

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

I still believe that one can talk about REST concepts accurately and fluently without the word "Affordance" . and who said it could not? why are you saying this kind of stuff here? if you don't want to use this word, don't. are you trying to tell me i cannot use it? mamund +1.859.757.1449 skyp

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/25/13 6:47 PM, mike amundsen wrote: I still believe that one can talk about REST concepts accurately and fluently without the word "Affordance" . and who said it could not? why are you saying this kind of stuff here? As you can see from the recent exchange between Ruben and I, this isn'

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Mike, You wrote > Yes, > > a foaf:Image . > > is an affordance. Then, by extension, RDF classes are affordances, and vocabularies are specifications of them. So this gives me the impression that Linked Data applications can solve the affordance issue using the standard

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Martynas: No "by extension" needed here. Affordance is a quality of a thing that allows action. RDF alone (w/o an added ontology) affords "data interchange." And yes, RDF _classes_ afford things, too. For example, when implementing the FOAF ontology a whole host of "Friend of a Friend" affordanc

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

On 11/26/13 9:48 AM, mike amundsen wrote: Martynas: No "by extension" needed here. Affordance is a quality of a thing that allows action. RDF alone (w/o an added ontology) affords "data interchange." RDF on its own does offer a little more than data interchange. It enables structured data

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

see, even more affordances. ;) mamund +1.859.757.1449 skype: mca.amundsen http://amundsen.com/blog/ http://twitter.com/mamund https://github.com/mamund http://www.linkedin.com/in/mamund On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > On 11/26/13 9:48 AM, mike amundsen wrote: > > Ma

Re: representing hypermedia controls in RDF

Hi Gannon, [Sorry for the delay, your mail accidentally skipped my inbox!] > My question can be rephrased thus: Does the theoretical size of the target > audience for a distributed affordance matter ? The audience size doesn't matter, as each user has personal preferences. The idea is that th