On 13/08/2014 11:42, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but
deleting their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we
know who you are replying to.
That's what the "References:"-Header is there for.
The References header is for the benefi
Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> I've been using mail and news for over 20 years now, you definitely
> don't need to teach me anything.
Except common courtesy.
You may have been rude for over 20 years, but I don't have to put up with it
for a second longer.
> Good Bye,
Agreed.
*plonk*
--
Steven
-
> >> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is
> >> > an entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any
> >> > "packages" or "installers" to use it.
> >
> >> For people who have never used such a system it's probably
> >> difficult to see the advantages.
> >
> > Tha
> >> By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but
> >> deleting their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we
> >> know who you are replying to.
> >
> > That's what the "References:"-Header is there for.
>
> The References header is for the benefit of news and mail cl
On 2014-08-12 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> It is rude to deliberately refuse to give attributes
> >
> > While I find this true for first-level attribution, I feel far
> > less obligation to attribute additional levels (and the verbosity
> > they entail).
>
> I cannot disagree with that.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I cannot disagree with that. I consider that the first-level attribution
> MUST be given, second-level SHOULD be given, and third- and subsequent
> levels MAY be given, where MUST/SHOULD/MAY have their conventional
> meanings from RFC 2119
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:27:25 -0500, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2014-08-12 10:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It is rude to deliberately refuse to give attributes
>
> While I find this true for first-level attribution, I feel far less
> obligation to attribute additional levels (and the verbosity they
>
On 2014-08-12 10:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It is rude to deliberately refuse to give attributes
While I find this true for first-level attribution, I feel far less
obligation to attribute additional levels (and the verbosity they
entail). If the reader is really that interested in who said what
Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but
>> deleting their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we
>> know who you are replying to.
>
> That's what the "References:"-Header is there for.
The References header is for the benefit of news a
On 2014-08-11, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> [somebody, but we don't know who, wrote]...
>> By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but
>> deleting their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we
>> know who you are replying to.
>
> That's what the "References:"-Header is
On 2014-08-06, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
>> > entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
>> > "installers" to use it.
>
>> For people who have never used such a system it's probably difficult
>> to see t
On 11/08/2014 10:08, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but
deleting their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we
know who you are replying to.
That's what the "References:"-Header is there for.
Sincerely,
Wolfgang
The references
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM, alister
wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:08:43 +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>
>>> By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but deleting
>>> their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we know who you
>>> are replying to.
>>
>> That's wha
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:08:43 +0200, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> By the way, you keep replying to people, and quoting them, but deleting
>> their name. Please leave the attribution in place, so we know who you
>> are replying to.
>
> That's what the "References:"-Header is there for.
>
> Sincerely,
> >> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> >> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> >> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
> >> >
> >> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is
> >>
> > Linux was made by geeks who didn't have a clue of ergonomics for
> > screenworkers and didn't care to get one.
>
> I can only repeat what you said earlier:
>
> "You should get a clue in stead [sic] of just fantasizing up
> assumptions based on ignorance."
>
> I daresay that Linus Torvalds sp
beliav...@aol.com wrote:
> Fortran compiler vendors such as Intel, IBM, Oracle/SUN and open source
> projects such as gfortran are updating their compilers to the Fortran 2003
> and 2008 standards while also keeping the ability to compile all the old
> Fortran code. FORTRAN 77 programmers and prog
Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Linux was made by geeks who didn't have a clue of ergonomics for
> screenworkers and didn't care to get one.
I can only repeat what you said earlier:
"You should get a clue in stead [sic] of just fantasizing up assumptions
based on ignorance."
I daresay that Linus Torva
Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/6/2014 9:47 AM, beliav...@aol.com.dmarc.invalid wrote:
>
>> Fortran compiler vendors such as Intel, IBM, Oracle/SUN and open
>
> *Vendors* sell compilers for money, which they can then use to *pay*
> people to do unfun stuff that volunteers don't want and should not hav
On 8/6/2014 9:47 AM, beliav...@aol.com.dmarc.invalid wrote:
Fortran compiler vendors such as Intel, IBM, Oracle/SUN and open
*Vendors* sell compilers for money, which they can then use to *pay*
people to do unfun stuff that volunteers don't want and should not have
to do.
Actually, I am be
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:38:22 PM UTC-4, Ben Finney wrote:
> Larry Martell writes:
>
>
>
> > No company that I work for is using python 3 - they just have too much
>
> > of an investment in a python 2 code base to switch.
>
>
>
> There are many large companies still using FORTRAN and CO
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
>> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
>> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
>> >
>> > Because on such operati
> I've worked with both. Quite honestly, I really wish that other
> operating systems had gone down this route. MS didn't possibly to make
> it harder to steal software,
>From the perspective of the computer-literate, proficient
screenworker, MS always got and gets everything completely wrong.
> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
> > entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
> > "installers" to use it.
> For people who have never used such a system it's probably difficult
> to see the advantages.
That's the whole point.
The
> > Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> > TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> > bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
> >
> > Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
> > entirely self
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Duncan Booth
wrote:
> So far they seem to have kept a pretty low profile; I suspect largely
> because until recently PTVS only worked with the pay versions of Visual
> Studio.
>
Not true. When it didn't work with the free express versions of VS, it
worked with th
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Duncan Booth wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, software development on Windows is something of a
>>> ghetto, compared to the wide range of free tools available for
>>> Linux.
>
> I remember writing this. But I don't remember when it was. Presum
Duncan Booth wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, software development on Windows is something of a
>> ghetto, compared to the wide range of free tools available for Linux.
I remember writing this. But I don't remember when it was. Presumably some
time in the last six months :-)
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Unfortunately, software development on Windows is something of a
> ghetto, compared to the wide range of free tools available for Linux.
> Outside of a few oases like Microsoft's own commercial development
> tools, it's hard to do development on Windows. Hard, but not
> i
RIck,
On 7/17/14, 2:15 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
Sadly, all of my calls to improve IDLE have been meet with
rebukes about me "whining". The "powers that be" would wise
to*UTILIZE* and*ENCOURAGE* my participation instead of
*IGNORING* valuable talent and*IMPEDING* the expansion of
this "private
Am 03.08.2014 02:04, schrieb Gregory Ewing:
MRAB wrote:
RISC OS didn't have a menu bar at the top of each window either; its
menus were all pop-up. You didn't have to keep flicking the mouse at
all!
The main reason for having a menu bar is discoverability. The
idea is that you can browse throug
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Gregory Ewing
wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> It's a little awkward when you have
>> an invoicing screen and you put something like "P&O Shipping" as your
>> customer name, and suddenly Alt-O takes you someplace different.
>
>
> An app that did that would be s
Roy Smith wrote:
These days, I'm running multiple 24 inch monitors. The single menu bar
paradigm starts to break down in an environment like that.
Yes, that's an issue. However, even on a large screen, most of
my windows are at least half a screen high, putting their tops
a considerable distan
MRAB wrote:
RISC OS didn't have a menu bar at the top of each window either; its
menus were all pop-up. You didn't have to keep flicking the mouse at
all!
The main reason for having a menu bar is discoverability. The
idea is that you can browse through the menus and get a feel
for what commands
Chris Angelico wrote:
It's a little awkward when you have
an invoicing screen and you put something like "P&O Shipping" as your
customer name, and suddenly Alt-O takes you someplace different.
An app that did that would be seriously broken, wouldn't it?
The & should only be interpreted that way
In article ,
Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > And don't mention the menu bar across the top, separated from the
> > window to which it belonged.
>
> That seems to be a matter of taste. There are some
> advantages to the menu-bar-at-top model. It's an easier
> target to hit, because you can just flick t
On 2014-08-02 01:00, Gregory Ewing wrote:
MRAB wrote:
[snip]
And don't mention the menu bar across the top, separated from the
window to which it belonged.
That seems to be a matter of taste. There are some advantages to the
menu-bar-at-top model. It's an easier target to hit, because you can
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Ewing
wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> The "easier target for the mouse" argument is valuable ONLY
>> when you use the mouse to access the menu bar. If you use the keyboard
>> (and take advantage of mnemonic letters), it's much more useful to
>> have the
Olaf Hering wrote:
How does "a package" differ? Its "a package" here and there.
Just use the correct tools to inspect "a package", like
'rpm -qliv $package' to see what "a package" is all about.
Splitting the package up creates a problem, which you
then need to invent a special tool to solve. S
Chris Angelico wrote:
The "easier target for the mouse" argument is valuable ONLY
when you use the mouse to access the menu bar. If you use the keyboard
(and take advantage of mnemonic letters), it's much more useful to
have the menu bar attached to its window.
Seems to me that if you use the k
On Sat, Aug 02, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> MacOSX doesn't currently have an automatic dependency
> manager, but if it did, things would still be a lot neater
> and tidier than they are in Linux or Windows, where what
> is conceptually a single object (a package) gets split up
> and its parts scattered
On 7/16/2014 7:27 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
I just tried an experiment in my own project. Ned Batchelder, in his
Pragmatic Unicode presentation, http://nedbatchelder.com/text/unipain.html,
suggests that you always have some unicode characters in your data, just to
ensure that they are handled corr
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Gregory Ewing
wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> in MacOS, even if I had a directory window open, I had to navigate to the
>> directory in the Save dialog.
>
> Yes, that was annoying. It wasn't a problem to begin with,
> because the original Mac was strictly single-tasking --
MRAB wrote:
I'd heard people say how user-friendly Apple Macs were, but when I got
to use one I was somewhat disappointed.
Well, they were compared to MS-DOS and the like, which was
all that was within reach of the general public when the
first Mac appeared. RISCOS came along somewhat later.
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Gregory Ewing
wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> The installer has basically three choices.
>> 1) Install libnettle inside the application directory
>> 2) Install libnettle to some system library directory
>> 3) Don't install libnettle, and demand that someone els
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:22 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 08/01/2014 08:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> The installer has basically three choices.
>> 1) Install libnettle inside the application directory
>> 2) Install libnettle to some system library directory
>> 3) Don't install libnettle, and d
Chris Angelico wrote:
The installer has basically three choices.
1) Install libnettle inside the application directory
2) Install libnettle to some system library directory
3) Don't install libnettle, and demand that someone else (perhaps the
user, or the system package manager) install it.
Opti
On 2014-08-01 18:16, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
Am 01.08.2014 13:10, schrieb Wolfgang Keller:
Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
"installers" to use it.
For people who have never used such a s
On 08/01/2014 08:39 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> The installer has basically three choices.
> 1) Install libnettle inside the application directory
> 2) Install libnettle to some system library directory
> 3) Don't install libnettle, and demand that someone else (perhaps the
> user, or the system pa
Am 01.08.2014 13:10, schrieb Wolfgang Keller:
Because on such operating systems, each and every application is an
entirely self-contained package that doesn't need any "packages" or
"installers" to use it.
For people who have never used such a system it's probably difficult to see
the advantage
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Nicholas Cole wrote:
> Actually, that's not right. RiscOS had and OS X has (I'm sure the
> others do as well) a concept that is similar to a shared library. But
> the joy of an application bundle is that installing an application
> does not scatter its own files
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>> Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
>> TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
>> bottomless cesspit of "package management" and
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
> Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
> TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
> bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
>
> Because on such operating systems, each
> Windows and OS X users, sadly, miss out on the power of an integrated
> package manager.
Thankfully, all actually user-friendly operating systems (MacOS,
TOS, RiscOS, probably AmigaOS, MacOS X) spare(d) their users the
bottomless cesspit of "package management" and/or "installers".
Because on
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 4:16:45 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> In unix and linux, there never was a separate text mode for files. When
> you open a file, you open a file -- and stuff bytes in it. There is no
> commonly accepted text file encoding. UTF-8 comes close to being a
> standard,
On Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:53:02 AM UTC+8, C.D. Reimer wrote:
> On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> > I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found
>
> > the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to
>
> > be bare- bones but usable fo
Chris Angelico wrote:
Other people had, for instance, a C:\BELFRY (best place to have BATs,
you know), or other such names. What's your favorite
directory/repository name for a concretion of ... random stuff?
My project directories typically contain a directory
called "Attic" for putting stuff
On 20 July 2014 11:53, C.D. Reimer wrote:
>
> On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found the
>> standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to be bare-
>> bones but usable for testing short snippets. If
On 7/19/2014 7:03 PM, TP wrote:
I would say that since PyCharm (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/)
now has a free Community Edition it is an even more notable IDE as the
above two programs cost $.
PyCharm look really nice as an IDE. Thanks for the heads up.
Chris Reimer
--
https://mail.pyth
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote:
> For Python users, the IDEs from
> Wingware and Activestate are notable:
>
> https://wingware.com/
> http://komodoide.com/
>
I would say that since PyCharm (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found
the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to
be bare- bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall
correctly, it is missing any sort of command
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> If I recall correctly, it [Python under cmd.exe] is
> missing any sort of command history or line editing other than backspace,
Not quite, but it has some extreme oddities. I'd have to call them
features because I can't imagine them to be
On 7/19/2014 5:41 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
The main thing is that versioning should be automatic now - it's
almost free, and the benefits are huge because even trivial scripts
end up evolving.
I keep my modest Python scripts in a Dropbox directory and run a weekly
Python script to zip up the Dr
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:31:10 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/19/2014 3:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> So why does Python ship with IDLE?
>
> On Windows the Idle shell is needed for sensible interactive use.
One might say that *some* IDE is needed, but Idle itself isn't
compulsory :-)
It
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Tim Delaney
wrote:
> On 20 July 2014 09:19, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> That said, though, there are some projects so modest they don't
>> require dedicated repositories. I have a repo called "shed" - it's a
>> collection of random tools that I've put together, n
On 20 July 2014 09:19, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Tim Delaney
> wrote:
> > IMO there is no project so modest that it doesn't require version
> control.
> > Especially since version control is as simple as:
> >
> > cd project
> > hg init
> > hg add
> > hg commit
>
>
On 7/19/2014 6:50 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
[A missed point from my last reply...]
Terry Reedy said:
I believe there is a proposal to be able to clear the
shell window. We just need to add "Clear and restart
shell".
# In order to prevent confusion with the typical "edit-#
# undo
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Tim Delaney
wrote:
> IMO there is no project so modest that it doesn't require version control.
> Especially since version control is as simple as:
>
> cd project
> hg init
> hg add
> hg commit
That said, though, there are some projects so modest they don't
requir
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> To solve this dilemma in *MY* command shell, i use the
> "ALT+UP_ARROW" to delete everything from the "last command
> prompt" to the "end of the text buffer". I think IDLE needs
> both functionality!
Okay, now I understand Rick's attitude. So
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 4:00 AM, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> However, a *bare* HOME_KEY press is placing the insertion
>>> cursor *BEHIND* the prompt of the current line. In a shell
>>> environment, you never want to be *BEHIND* the command
>>> p
[A missed point from my last reply...]
Terry Reedy said:
> I believe there is a proposal to be able to clear the
> shell window. We just need to add "Clear and restart
> shell".
A command that allows a user to clear the *ENTIRE* "shell
IO" and *ALSO* resets the global and local symbol tables
*WI
On 20 July 2014 04:08, C.D. Reimer wrote:
> On 7/19/2014 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available
>> for Python, including:
>>
>
> I prefer to use Notepad++ (Windows) and TextWrangler (Mac). Text editors
> with code highlighting
[A missed point from my last reply...]
Terry Reedy said:
> I believe there is a proposal to be able to clear the
> shell window. We just need to add "Clear and restart
> shell".
A command that allows clearing the *entire* shell display
and also resets the global and local symbol tables,
*WITHOUT
On 7/19/2014 3:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
So why does Python ship with IDLE?
On Windows the Idle shell is needed for sensible interactive use. For
simply editing a Python file, running it, and fixing it, the Idle editor
seems *about* as good as anything.
It's not because Python require
On 7/19/2014 12:28 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available
for Python, including:
I prefer to use Notepad++ (Windows) and TextWrangler (Mac). Text editors
with code highlighting can get the job done as well, especially if the
project i
On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> However, a *bare* HOME_KEY press is placing the insertion
>> cursor *BEHIND* the prompt of the current line. In a shell
>> environment, you never want to be *BEHIND* the command
>> prompt.
>
> I don't know about the old versions, but in 3.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> On versions 2.7.2 and 3.2.2 CONTROL+LEFT_ARROW is landing
> *properly* in front of the prompt, so apparently that bug was
> fixed since last i checked, my apologies for being ignorant
> of the situation, but you should understand that i had gi
On Friday, July 18, 2014 8:21:36 PM UTC-5, Terry Reedy wrote:
> What ancient version, or oddball system are you using? For
> me, Win 7, both 2.7.8 and 3.4.1 "CONTROL+LEFT_ARROW" and
> the cursor is before the 'a' of [>>> abc]. The HOME key
> goes to the same place first, and they before >>> on the
Earlier, I mentioned a considerable number of IDEs which are available
for Python, including:
PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE, Geany, IEP,
Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans, Emacs, KDevelop, and
BlackAdder.
https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvir
On 7/18/2014 11:50 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 18/07/2014 09:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
Yes Chris, i also think that the IDLE shell is "spectacular"
when i'm using it, especially when i press
"CONTROL+LEFT_ARROW" and the insertion cursor lands *
On 7/17/2014 11:37 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:15:15 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
For myself, though, I completely do not use the editor half of [IDLE]; but
it's spectacularly useful (with limitations) as my primary interactive
interpreter.
Yes Chris, i also think t
On 7/17/2014 10:39 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
IDLE (or Idle; Terry
seems to spell it the latter way, I'm not sure what's the official
recommendation now),
You found me out ;-). FORTRAN is now Fortran, and I hate typing IDLE,
and that spelling somehow strikes me as pretentious, so I decided to
On 7/17/2014 8:26 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 18/07/2014 01:13, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 7/17/2014 2:15 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
a partial disinformation rant again Idle
that repeats things said before, more than once.
Still more facts ;-). About three (four?) years ago, you posted a
similar rant.
On 7/18/14 5:37 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 1:20:10 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE,
Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans,
Emacs, KDevelop, BlackAdder, ...
And tell me Steven, how many of those "qu
On Friday, July 18, 2014 1:20:10 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> PyDev, Eric, Komodo, PyCharm, WingIDE, SPE, Ninja-IDE,
> Geany, IEP, Spyder, Boa Constructor, PyScripter, NetBeans,
> Emacs, KDevelop, BlackAdder, ...
And tell me Steven, how many of those "quality" IDEs that
you listed actually *
On 2014-07-18 19:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:12:23 AM UTC-5, Fabien wrote:
For non-informatic students [...] I don't think that's true. Less
general languages like Matlab appear much easier to me: unified
doc,
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 20:13:44 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/17/2014 2:15 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: a partial disinformation rant
> again Idle that repeats things said before, more than once.
[...]
Thanks for the detailed explanation Terry, and especially thanks for the
good work you have done o
On 18/07/2014 19:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
Sadly, all of my calls to improve IDLE have been meet with rebukes about
me "whining".
Why don't you go volunteer to fix a few IDLE bugs, instead of just
demanding that others do it?
http://bu
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:15:59 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:12:23 AM UTC-5, Fabien wrote:
>> For non-informatic students [...] I don't think that's true. Less
>> general languages like Matlab appear much easier to me: unified doc,
>> unified IDE, unified debugger
>
> I'
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:36:43 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:48:38 AM UTC-5, alex23 wrote:
>> PHP regularly breaks compatibility between _minor_ version releases:
>> [...] more so with major releases: [...] yet I never see anywhere near
>> as much angst and agony as Pyth
On 18/07/2014 16:46, MRAB wrote:
On 2014-07-18 04:37, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:15:15 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
For myself, though, I completely do not use the editor half of
[IDLE]; but
it's spectacularly useful (with limitations) as my primary interactive
interpre
On 18/07/2014 09:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
Yes Chris, i also think that the IDLE shell is "spectacular"
when i'm using it, especially when i press
"CONTROL+LEFT_ARROW" and the insertion cursor lands *BEHIND*
the start of the interactive command
On 18/07/2014 04:37, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:15:15 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
For myself, though, I completely do not use the editor half of [IDLE]; but
it's spectacularly useful (with limitations) as my primary interactive
interpreter.
Yes Chris, i also think tha
On 2014-07-18 04:37, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:15:15 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
For myself, though, I completely do not use the editor half of [IDLE]; but
it's spectacularly useful (with limitations) as my primary interactive
interpreter.
Yes Chris, i also think tha
On 18/07/2014 04:01, alex23 wrote:
On 18/07/2014 10:45 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
Maybe he's too busy working on RickPy 4000 (or whatever it was called).
I believe the new working name is PypeDream.
For me a very good day just got better with that one, thanks :)
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask n
Hallöchen!
Larry Martell writes:
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Grant Edwards
> wrote:
>
>> But, I do know that a decent, civilized person just doesn't make
>> insulting comments like that about somebody else's work even if
>> it is true (which I very much doubt).
>
> Now, _that's_ funny. T
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But, I do know that a
> decent, civilized person just doesn't make insulting comments like
> that about somebody else's work even if it is true (which I very much
> doubt).
Now, _that's_ funny. This is the internet. If you can't stand the he
On 2014-07-18, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Thursday, July 17, 2014 1:44:20 PM UTC-5, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Rick Johnson :
>>> Sure, IDLE is not *useless*, however, it is in fact woefully
>>> inadequate and should be embarrassing to the whole community, both in
>>> it's buggy-ness and it's poorly
On 2014-07-18, alex23 wrote:
> On 17/07/2014 1:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> There will never be a Python 2.8. When push comes to shove, the people
>> bitching about Python 3 will not do the work necessary to fork Python 2.7
>> and make a version 2.8.
>
> +1
>
> The idea that forking and mainta
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> Yes Chris, i also think that the IDLE shell is "spectacular"
>> when i'm using it, especially when i press
>> "CONTROL+LEFT_ARROW" and the insertion cursor lands *BEHIND*
>> the start of the interactive command marker " >>>", an
>> area where ke
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