An unusual blurb on FoxNews that will be of interest to the list. I'd be curious if anyone knows the legal basis under which the NY Div of Human Rights sent the cease and desist letter, given the privately owned status of the skating rink.Spiritual Skating, Dictionary Debating Sunday, July
Does New York maybe prohibit
religious discrimination in places of public accommodation?
Douglas Laycock
Alice McKean Young Regents Chair in
Law
The University of Texas at Austin
Mailing Address:
Prof. Douglas Laycock
University ofMichigan Law School
625 S. StateSt.
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Douglas Laycock wrote:
Does New York maybe prohibit religious discrimination in places of
public accommodation?
Douglas Laycock
Alice McKean Young Regents Chair in Law
The University of Texas at Austin
And aren't public accommodations perhaps so designated based on
That looks like the case. A further internet search revealed the following story. The TVC letter to Governor Pataki is interesting:Skate Rink Warned Against Christian Skate TimeJune 22, 2006 A skating rink in Accord, New York has been warned by the State of New Yorks Division of Human
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Had the NY Human Rights Division been in charge in Chicago during the
1970s, would it have meant that Bill Veeck's Comiskey Park (see
http://whitesoxinteractive.com/HistoryGlory/FalstaffHarry.htm)
couldn't have hosted Polish Night, Italian Night, etc., for fear
that persons of other national
Isn't there a difference between holding an ethnic theme -- food,
music, etc.at the ball park -- and having an event that implies people
of only one religion are welcome? Hard to imagine what the food and
music would be of a Christian Theme night at the ball park or the
skating rink? It
Quoting Paul Finkelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Isn't there a difference between holding an ethnic theme -- food,
music, etc.at the ball park -- and having an event that implies
people of only one religion are welcome? Hard to imagine what the
food and music would be of a Christian Theme night at
May I suggest that this thread might benefit from Gary Jacobsohn's
wonderful analysis of Hindutva in his THE WHEEL OF THE LAW: INDIA'S
SECULARISM IN COMPARATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL CONTEXT. As Professor
Jacobsohn notes, Hindutva can be understood both as a culture and a
religion, there not being a
Mark: An Israeli folk dance is the folk dance of a national culture.
It is not a religious dance. That is the whole point!
Mark Graber wrote:
May I suggest that this thread might benefit from Gary Jacobsohn's
wonderful analysis of Hindutva in his THE WHEEL OF THE LAW: INDIA'S
SECULARISM IN
I'm not sure about this for several reasons. First, at least as of 20
years ago, a good deal of the music played in the typical Israel dance
was religious. Dodi Li is both a dance and a Hebrew prayer. Second, I
think it is going to be very hard to draw a very sharp line between
Israel national
I don't think that's right, under New York law. McKinney's Civil
Rights Law § 40A states that place of public accommodation, resort or
amusement ... shall be deemed to include ... retail stores and establishments,
among a very long list of other places. And the same would likely be
Certainly Paul and others are free to see attempts to convert
them to another religion as offensive. Likewise, others are free to
see various political views -- or even the celebration of Russianness,
Greekness, Canadianness, or what have you -- as offensive. I'm not wild
about going
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, Paul Finkelman wrote:
[snip]
The other difference, of course, is that one IS religious and the other
is not. It was not Catholic night at the ball park and I bet there
were few priests bringing their sunday school class in for Polish
Catholic night.
If Paul's point is
This is a puzzlement about the whole thread, not David's posting. How --
legally -- is the skating rink's position different from one that featured a
Celebrate Being White night (or, to give a precise parallel in advertising, a
White Night at the Rink), advertising that there'd be music from
I'm not sure there is a difference between a store owner's
having a theme that expresses pro-Confederate ideas (whether the theme
is musical or visual, as with prominent displays of the flag),
pro-Satanist ideas, pro-Christian ideas, pro-Irish ideas, pro-white
ideas, pro-black ideas,
The music is a substantial part of the skating experience. No one would
doubt that a Christian music concert could be held (and advertised).
Does the combination of a physical activity (skating) with the playing
of music deprive the business owner of the free speech rights that a
concert promoter
By the way, is there a copy of the letter from the New York
agency somewhere around? I'd like to see exactly what they're alleging
is the violation. Thanks,
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Scarberry, Mark
Let me express my doubts about this assertion -- No one would doubt that a
Christian music concert could be held (and advertised) -- where the presenter
is a for-profit business. (A genuine question: How do for-profit concert
promoters advertise concerts by Christian rock groups?)
--
Mark
The language of the actual statute is below. And it looks like the ACLJ has taken thiscase on (http://www.aclj.org/trialnotebook/read.aspx?id=375). Maybe they can provide us with a copy of the letter.http://www.nysdhr.com/hrlaw.html#2962. (a) It shall be an unlawful discriminatory practice
I don't konw about rock promotors, but gospel concerts (which I believe are
almost as popular) are explicitly religious in their advertising in terms of
visuals, lyrical excerpts, and framing headings.
David
- Original Message -
From: Mark Tushnet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Law Religion
Presumably, Mark, a global warming night is not a message that people
of a certain religion or ethnic group are unwelcome. As far as I know,
global warming will harm (or not harm) Jews, Christians, Moslems,
Satanists, Hindus, etc. without regard to their belief.
Paul
Scarberry, Mark wrote:
Wouldn't it be ok to have a Christian-themed music period, rather than
a Christian Skating Time. A fine line to be sure, but surely one
that would be a lawful regulation of a place of public accommodation.
Also, could the skating rink set aside certain times for certain
groups that otherwise
Would a special Christmas Skate or an Easter Skate sponsored by the
skating rink be permissible under the NY Human Rights Law (or similar
laws), if the interpretation of the statute by the NY Div. of Human
Rights in the Skate Time 209 situation is correct?
Could the skating rink be named Holy
I remain confused as to the facts.
Did they actually try to exclude people based on religious identity? I
assume that would be a clear violation of the NY law. It just isn't
clear to me why a Christian skating night open to everyone violates
the law as it is worded. If they wanted to hold a
Well, the bookstore would be a public accommodation at least under
some state's laws.
But there is a difference between a themed-bookstore being open to
everyone and a general skating rink being closed to some on a
prohibited basis.
Since the rink is open to everyone during the
Well, if Mark is right, doesn't that say something very bad
about the current state of First Amendment law? Given that for-profit
speakers and speech presenters are fully protected by the First
Amendment (see, e.g, the New York Times, CNN, etc.), isn't it quite
clear that for-profit
This isn't an area of my speciality, but it seems to me that, simply as a matter
of positive law, the relevant decided cases -- that is, the decided cases
dealing more or less directly with the asserted conflict between free speech
and antidiscrimination law -- weigh strongly against Eugene's
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