Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-29 Thread James Hong Kong
Hi, Thanks but we rather would try to avoid having any heavy programming logic within templates. Your proposal might be a viable solution for certain type of tasks but since this wouldn't be a native implementation it will influence performance and require additional logic within a template. Chee

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-29 Thread James Hong Kong
Hi Markus, While testing #subobjects on MW 1.18 (on SMW 1.7alpha), we started to convert our SIO objects into SMW-subobjects (we hope that with this we can avoid double entries that now and then appear due to problems in SIO ). One advantage of SIO is that its assigns individual object-ids (#1...

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Stephan Gambke
Am 02.11.2011 00:17, schrieb Jon Lang: > Stephan Gambke wrote: > > Am 01.11.2011 20:11, schrieb Jon Lang: > > Thank you; this gives me a means of illustrating my point. > > > > Take the example of my name as given by Marcus: > > > > Jon Lang{{#subobject name|personal=Jonath

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Jon Lang
Stephan Gambke wrote: > Am 01.11.2011 20:11, schrieb Jon Lang: > > Thank you; this gives me a means of illustrating my point. > > > > Take the example of my name as given by Marcus: > > > > Jon Lang{{#subobject name|personal=Jonathan|nickname=Jon|family=Lang}} > > > > In order to set up a Semantic

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Stephan Gambke
Am 01.11.2011 20:11, schrieb Jon Lang: > Thank you; this gives me a means of illustrating my point. > > Take the example of my name as given by Marcus: > > Jon Lang{{#subobject name|personal=Jonathan|nickname=Jon|family=Lang}} > > In order to set up a Semantic Glossary that uses Jon Lang as the

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Jon Lang
Thank you; this gives me a means of illustrating my point. Take the example of my name as given by Marcus: Jon Lang{{#subobject name|personal=Jonathan|nickname=Jon|family=Lang}} In order to set up a Semantic Glossary that uses Jon Lang as the term and information from {{#subobject name|personal=

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Stephan Gambke
Am 01.11.2011 17:13, schrieb Jon Lang: > manner when the page is displayed. As well, decoupling the > #subobject from any sort of wiki text makes it difficult to write > other extensions that might do such things as, say, presenting the > semantics of a term on a page as a footnote or tooltip. Sor

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Jon Lang
Markus Krötzsch wrote: > On 01/11/11 14:11, Jonathan Lang wrote: > >> This is a very true point. Then again, creating a spinoff of #subobject >> strictly to add an optional visualization feature to it feels a little >> awkward. Still, it would be a good learning experience. >> > > It does not ha

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Markus Krötzsch
On 01/11/11 14:11, Jonathan Lang wrote: > Markus Krötzsch wrote: > >> Ok, fair point. The explanation should then include that SMW is conceived as >> a data management extension, but tries to keep small on data >> formatting/visualisation. So the real reason is the overall project goal. > > Fair

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-11-01 Thread Yaron Koren
Hi, Why not just do: Jon Lang {{#subobject name | personal=Jonathan | nickname=Jon | family=Lang | title=Mr. }} In other words, why not just take the display of the data out of the #subobject call (assuming that's what the function will be called) altogether? -Yaron On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-12 Thread Markus Krötzsch
On 07/10/11 19:21, John McClure wrote: > Under #2 scenario, if a template creates a subobject but never uses it in > {{#set}} then what is the impact? Then the subobject will be like a wikipage with the property values as specified. The subobject will just not have an incoming property from its

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-07 Thread John McClure
Under #2 scenario, if a template creates a subobject but never uses it in {{#set}} then what is the impact? Thanks -- All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitiv

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-07 Thread Markus Krötzsch
On 06/10/11 16:09, CW Dillon wrote: > Jesse, > Ooh. I hadn't thought of that, with the recipe example. You're right. > ...there's always so much more that can be done! > > So, in addition to the "elegance" of option #2 is the flexibility of not > *needing* an interim object to get at it's data. If

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-06 Thread CW Dillon
Jesse, Ooh. I hadn't thought of that, with the recipe example. You're right. ...there's always so much more that can be done! So, in addition to the "elegance" of option #2 is the flexibility of not *needing* an interim object to get at it's data. If a data page is desired/required, it can be crea

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-05 Thread Jesse Wang
Clarence, I regard your distinction between "address" and "recipe" as a practical modeling choice, it is case by case as you said. If "500g of flour" or "a teaspoon of sugar" is used often enough, maybe it makes sense to create a page for it, and you can add extra properties to it such as calories.

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-04 Thread Markus Krötzsch
Hi Clarence, I agree that the implications for modelling are not easy to see in general. The distinction you make between proper objects (i.e., property values that are connected by an object) and n-ary relations (i.e., property values that are related in a given context) is important for deve

Re: [SMW-devel] [Semediawiki-user] RFC Subobjects (aka "internal objects") in SMW

2011-10-03 Thread CW Dillon
Markus, Thanks for taking this on. I talked myself out of both solutions three times, just in the span of writing a response. This is a tough problem, I think. So, what niggles at me is whether it is reasonable to argue for solution 1 or solution 2 based on whether the "something" in the middle is