Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Gautam John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > Because they are! I fail to understand this line of reasoning. Theatre > for theatre's sake is what you're advocating? If what you're saying is > that the general populous need to 'feel' safe instead of actually > 'bein

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 09:01:57AM +0530, Gautam John wrote: > I'm waiting for the first terrorist to swallow a bomb or embed one > internally. And you thought the screenings were bad? No need. Luggage handlers. Security themselves.

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 07:08:14PM -0700, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > etc etc). If he were to see what's truly effective he'd have to see what > goes on with El Al in Israel - everybody is treated suspiciously, and > there's blatant racial profiling, etc etc. TSA are pussycats compared to > is

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:07 AM, ss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > Yes but the government could outsource airport security to a private agency > that can get sued. Unless I am mistaken. Blackwater's done just fine being a government sanctioned mercenary terrorist outfit. Cheeni

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

On Tuesday 21 Oct 2008 7:41:40 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > It is rather complex .. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law > > Perry E. Metzger [20/10/08 15:33 -0400]: > >> I know for a fact that even doctors sometimes delay emergency medical > >> treatment in the US until a pati

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > "Srini Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year > > because I bought a one-way ticket from Seattle to NYC using a foreign > > credit card. Mu

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > gets you a full body xray - which catches ingested explosives, yes - Oh. So it has already come to pass. Progress, FTW! -- Please read our new blog at: http://blog.prathambooks.org

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Gautam John [21/10/08 09:01 +0530]: Unless you are omniscient and have esp to boot .. yes, you do react to threats, because I'm waiting for the first terrorist to swallow a bomb or embed one internally. And you thought the screenings were bad? gets you a full body xray - which catch

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unless you are omniscient and have esp to boot .. yes, you do react to > threats, because I'm waiting for the first terrorist to swallow a bomb or embed one internally. And you thought the screenings were ba

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Gautam John [21/10/08 08:57 +0530]: As a general rule, if you are reacting to threats you're always behind the curve. And suggesting violations of personal privacy and liberties to get ahead of the curve is not really an option because the privacy vs. security debate is a red herring. It's always

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are a few problems here. Some of these checks got put in place > because of specific incidents (scanning cellphones separately for example - As a general rule, if you are reacting to threats you're always b

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Gautam John [21/10/08 08:35 +0530]: Because they are! I fail to understand this line of reasoning. Theatre for theatre's sake is what you're advocating? If what you're saying is that the general populous need to 'feel' safe instead of actually 'being' safe, there is some merit to it. But I don't

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yes. and the alternatives get dismissed as security theater. > sure, a few simple improvements (such as bp checking) could do wonders.. > and maybe some attitude retraining for various TSA staff. Because they are

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Gautam John [21/10/08 07:59 +0530]: On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: goes on with El Al in Israel - everybody is treated suspiciously, and there's blatant racial profiling, etc etc. TSA are pussycats compared to israeli security. Ummm, yes but

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > goes on with El Al in Israel - everybody is treated suspiciously, and > there's blatant racial profiling, etc etc. TSA are pussycats compared to > israeli security. Ummm, yes but there are certain trade-offs that

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

It is rather complex .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law Perry E. Metzger [20/10/08 15:33 -0400]: I know for a fact that even doctors sometimes delay emergency medical treatment in the US until a patient with a particular emergency is certified by peers as suffering from a probl

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Rishab Ghosh [20/10/08 09:11 -0700]: "obvious"? to whom? certainly not to the many people who are being targeted as teh audience of the "theatre" of false security. they may not read schneier's blog, but some of them do read the atlantic, and the other mainstream press publications that cover sch

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Well if you get one that goes upto 7 you are probably typing this from an open access point on the florida mainland that you are somehow able to reach from gitmo bay .. 4 is the most common "random check" around - usually hand inspection of baggage and where its available, one of those whole body

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

On Tuesday 21 Oct 2008 1:03:06 am Perry E. Metzger wrote: > I doubt it. You can't sue the government, unless it specifically > allows you to. Sovereign immunity. Mostly, the security theater is > there because it provides cover for politicians and bureaucrats. Yes but the government could outsourc

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

On Tuesday 21 Oct 2008 1:09:18 am Perry E. Metzger wrote: > > "The US had a brief period when terrorist attacks seemed to become > > frequent.  But the US security agencies clamped down so effectively > > on the weak spots that were open to misuse by terrorists that the US > > made itself relativel

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

On Tuesday 21 Oct 2008 1:03:06 am Perry E. Metzger wrote: > You know this for a fact, eh? I think you would have your medical > license pulled for doing something like that. LOL this is precisely what I am talking about. The loosely wielded threat that "you can have your medical license pulled".

Re: [silk] Call Centers Are Fodder For India's Pop Culture

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Perry E. Metzger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I spent almost 10 hours on the phone with AT&T customer service > representatives who insisted to me they were in Atlanta or where have > you even though one could clearly tell that their accent coaching was, > shall we

Re: [silk] Call Centers Are Fodder For India's Pop Culture

> The instructor writes "35 = 10" on the board, as though he is gifting > the recruits with a magic mantra. > > "A 35-year-old American's brain and IQ is the same as a 10-year-old > Indian's," he explains, and urges the agents to be patient with the > callers. I find it intriguing that the stereo

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Actually, there is no way of preventing terrorism. Absolutely none, There is one. If all life is exterminated, we will be free of terrorism as well. Perry -- Perry E. Metzger[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

ss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Looked at from one particular perspective, what you have written and > what I wrote are not mutually incompatible. Let me tell the story > this way: > > "The US had a brief period when terrorist attacks seemed to become > frequent. But the US security agencies cla

Re: [silk] The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists

ss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Somehow, I suspect that lawyers in the US are inextricably intertwined with > this. I doubt it. You can't sue the government, unless it specifically allows you to. Sovereign immunity. Mostly, the security theater is there because it provides cover for politicians

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier

"Suresh Ramasubramanian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year > > Just 4 Ss .. > >> I agree Bruce is one of the loudest voices against security theater. >> IIRC, he's also the one that coined the term "security theater". > > Unfortun

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier

"Srini Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year > because I bought a one-way ticket from Seattle to NYC using a foreign > credit card. Multiple S symbols on the boarding pass mean that you > have been flagged for tighter sec

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:52:56PM +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > I was never a fan of theatrical fireworks, or of stating / proving the > obvious "obvious"? to whom? certainly not to the many people who are being targeted as teh audience of the "theatre" of false security. they may not r

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Srini Ramakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year >> >> Just 4 Ss .. > > Were you there looking over my shou

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year > > Just 4 Ss .. Were you there looking over my shoulder? ;-) You are right, I think I had only 4 Ss, but it can go all the way upto 7 depend

Re: [silk] Silk meet in London later this week?

Just a reminder - meeting in about 1.5 hours... On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:43 PM, Sriram Karra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The plan is as follows: > Date: Monday 20th Oct, 6:30 PM > Location: "Princess Louise", Holborn ( > http://www.pubs.com/pub_details.cfm?ID=226)

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

I was never a fan of theatrical fireworks, or of stating / proving the obvious srs > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Gautam John > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:35 PM > To: silklist@lists.hserus.net > Subject: Re: [silk] B

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unfortunately, he doesn't just coin it, he practices it - this public > debunking is silly. Entertaining of course, but silly. And why is it silly? Because it is not realistic? Because it does not serve a purpose

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

> I had the letters S tagged onto my boarding pass earlier this year Just 4 Ss .. > I agree Bruce is one of the loudest voices against security theater. > IIRC, he's also the one that coined the term "security theater". Unfortunately, he doesn't just coin it, he practices it - this public de

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 08:41 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >> All that said, here's an interesting article that just got published, >> and you will note Bruce's involvement. >> >> http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 08:41 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > All that said, here's an interesting article that just got published, > and you will note Bruce's involvement. > > http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security americans haven't figured out when to check ID? i hadn't noticed t

Re: [silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Perry E. Metzger [20/10/08 08:41 -0400]: All that said, here's an interesting article that just got published, and you will note Bruce's involvement. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security Like I said, it is security theater. Proving it is easy. Proving it in a media attention

[silk] Bruce Schneier (was Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Ineffective Terrorists)

Suresh Ramasubramanian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Perry E. Metzger [17/10/08 14:16 -0400]: >>Perhaps, but it is probably of value that we ask the question "what >>causes all of this" rather than simply deciding the solution is to put >>more concrete barriers up in the middle of our towns. Clear

Re: [silk] Suggestions for digital documentation: form, rather than technology!

On breaking up the document into its elements, check out the purple numbers idea indicating the location of a document, at http://www.bootstrap.org/#9B Recently, I came across this Haskell book recently: http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read Where it is made easy for people to comment at such e