Just so that we don't ignore "conventional wisdom", I present a verbatim
quote from the text book "Modern Locomotive Construction" by J.G.A
Meyer, published by John Wiley and Sons in the year 1892 (yup, 110 years
ago). From page 435, Section 430, "Fusible Plugs"
"Fusible plugs are sometimes used
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Something that never seems to get mentioned is the reaction of lead on
> non-ferrous metals. It is very corrosive to them. Take a piece of copper,
> brass, silver, or gold and heat it up to red heat with some lead on it and
> watch it eat a hole right through it.
Thanks to Geoff, Tony, Keith, Gregg, et al. Your responses, both on and
off line, were very informative and helpful. This list is a marvelous
resource. Thank you, Dave, for the facilities. Jim Burns
Sam,
My edition is the fifth Impression(paperback) 1974.
Page 92 and I quote:
"Much nonsense has been written anent the folly of making the foundation
ring joint by riveting and soft solder caulking, it being alleged that such a
joint will soon give trouble through leakage. This just
Gary
Read my posting again, it wasn't a plug, it was a superheater header. A
much different animal. The superheater is in a boiler flue tube that is in a
direct path of the fire as it leaves the combustion chamber ahead of my
firebox. But it only has steam in it, to be superheated, when the throt
Actually, you'd use it in addition to a second safety valve.
Also, the rivit would be soft-soldered into the body of an IC glo-plug
that had been hollowed out. This would be screwed into a bushing
hard-soldered into the crown sheet. I imagine you'd place it slightly
over to the side so that it'
Keith,
What in the world happened to cause the plug to blow on your LVRR Pacific?
~Gary - Eugene, OR
At 12:45 PM 26/02/02 -0500, Keith Manison wrote:
>Doe anyone know what thread is used on butane tanks? I've been able to
>succesfully make fittings for them using a 7/16" x 28 thread. However,
>that does
>not seem to be a standard thread, so I'm wondering if it's metric and I
>just got
>lucky.
- Original Message -
From: Harry Wade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I can see where it would sound odd. I don't know that there is a
> downside except that most locos would need to be turned upside down or put
> on a high lift to replace the fuse right?
Harry and list,
The fusible plug b
And another thing. In the full - size you are supposed to remove the
fusible plug and refill it with lead periodically. The principle reason
for this was that if left alone scale/detritus could build up on top of
the plug and block it. This also caused a number of explosions.
Sam E
Harry Wad
> Doe anyone know what thread is used on butane tanks? I've been able to
> succesfully make fittings for them using a 7/16" x 28 thread. However, that
does
> not seem to be a standard thread, so I'm wondering if it's metric and I just
got
> lucky.
Keith,
The answer is in my workshop notebook,
My reading of Trot's comment is that a rivet soft soldered into a crown
could be a substitite for a fusible plug. I think either the rivet would
have to be very loose in the hole or be of sufficient diameter for the
boiler pressure to blow it out. A tightish fitting 1/16" rivet soft
soldered into
I have a 1972 edition of Harris (Ist ed 1967) in which he advocates the
use of riveting fireboxes and boiler barrel seams and using a good
quality soft solder for caulking. He also says that the job can be
done all hard soldered. I think it should be born in mind that Harris
does not really diff
Gary wrote:
>
>
> Another question born from ignorance...
> Wouldn't a release of pressure also cause a release of steam (water) further
> lowering the available supply of water to an already stressed boiler?
>
One thing to remember is that when it flashes, it is consuming heat
energy - helping
Harry Wade wrote:
>
>
> Typical 45% silver solder flows at about 1150°F. If I didn't feel that
> "nothing is impossible" I would say that it would be impossible for the
> silver solder in a conventionally fired Ga1 boiler to be melted merely from
> the heat of the fire.
>
I found some stea
CWolcott wrote:
>
>
> In the case of the mudring, my guess is with a small boiler the
> remaining water flashes into steam with the release of pressure, causing
> the mud ring joint to melt from the residual heat and allowing this
> pressure to be vented as well.
>
Well, in the case of the boil
Which edition and page is that in please?
Sam E
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Yep, Harry, I get a kick out of how he recommends soft soldering the mud ring
> in! I think that it is a great book for a lot of basics.
> Bob Starr
I must change my Spring Steamup date to April 13 & 14. I managed to
schedule my steamup on the same date as another one. I want everyone to
be able to attend both if they choose.
My program will remain the same except there will be no bonus day. My
apology to anyone that may have been inconven
Art Walker wrote:
>
> Mighty lucky, 'cos if you are refering to the thread for the Ronson valve
> this is 4.5 x 0.5 mm for which I guess you need a 4.0mm 'ole.
>
No, that's not the one I mean. I have the tap for the valve that goes in the
loco's gas tank. I need the thread on the top of the can
It
> seems to me that the primary job of the fusible plug was to "out the fire"
in
> full sized coal or oiled fired locomotives.
The primary job of a fusible plug is to release pressure, as a by-product it
also puts out the fire ( and also makes lots of noise, steam etc - been
there and had it ha
Mighty lucky, 'cos if you are refering to the thread for the Ronson valve
this is 4.5 x 0.5 mm for which I guess you need a 4.0mm 'ole.
Problem is that an accurate & burr free recess is required to seat the 'O'
ring underneath the valve shoulder.
If you don't have recess, the ring can be squeezed
At 10:55 AM 2/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now that seems odd to me Harry. The fusible plug concept sounds like a
>good one to me. So what is the downside?
(Clark posted this off-list but I'm answering on-list because I figure
others might have the same question.)
Clark,
I can see where it
Keith wrote: Now with a gas fired Ga1 loco, even if the fusible plug let go
it would probably
not put out a gas poker burner. So now the boiler has emptied and the fire
is
still lit. Result, a boiler that needs scrapping or rebuilding,like the
K-4s. If
it does out out the fire you have butane gas
Keith, good points, all.
> I think if you are going to use a fusible plug it must be designed such
> that if it blows it will definately put out the fire. If the fire stays
> lit then you are in a worse situation than before.
Quite right.
-v-
VR Bass wrote:
>
> Ask Aster On the other hand, a silver-soldererd boiler with a soft-
> soldered bush or plug would be simple to put back in service -- simply resolder
> the failed joint.
I'm not sure that a fusible plug will solve the Aster K-4 type of problem. It
seems to me that the pri
> it's a transparent attempt to justify not silver soldering.
Harry, if we're still talking about the letter to the G1MRA Journal, I suggest
you go back and read it again. The letter in question is from Roy Froom,
appearing in the Winter 2002 issue on p. 44.
I quote from it:
"As Ian Smith h
Doe anyone know what thread is used on butane tanks? I've been able to
succesfully make fittings for them using a 7/16" x 28 thread. However, that does
not seem to be a standard thread, so I'm wondering if it's metric and I just got
lucky.
Cheers
Keith
--
=
At 11:45 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you'd have the copper rivit (basicly a plug in the plug) be the core
>and the solder would be the working part? Over heat the copper such that
>it melted the solder and it comes free into the firebox?
>Trot
By George I think he's got it! BTW, in
At 07:49 AM 2/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Harry and others,
>Meths fired locos can burn a boiler or melt it down because . . . .
Gary,
My contention is that under normal circumstances it cannot.
>when water is
>too low the fire heat drops significantly because the blower is no longer
>operating
So you'd have the copper rivit (basicly a plug in the plug) be the core
and the solder would be the working part? Over heat the copper such that
it melted the solder and it comes free into the firebox?
No, I don't actually plan on doing this, but it's interesting to know how
it should work. {:]
Gary:
It's generally accepted that meths fired engines will not melt a boiler
joint because of the reasons you stated "because when water is
too low the fire heat drops significantly because the blower is no longer
operating (no steam to create draft for the fire)." I wouldn't recommend
low wate
At 11:07 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So what about making a crown plug with a soft-solder core? Are there
>plugs readily available for our size engines?
>Trot, the realistic, fox...
Trot,
I question the practicality of this in Ga1, but IF you wanted a
fusible plug it would involve t
At 10:14 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Harry,
>It is all too easy to have a meltdown on a Gauge 1 silver-soldered boiler
>when the water gets low.
Peter,
As usual we disagree. In the case of the K4 boiler, the usual
generalities won't do. The problems were due in part to a manufacturing
d
So what about making a crown plug with a soft-solder core? Are there
plugs readily available for our size engines?
I'm thinking of a glow-plug with the center electrode removed and filled
in with solder or some similar low-temp alloy.
Trot, the realistic, fox...
/\_/\TrotFox\
Howdy all,
The stack in question was made several years ago from an old door knob as
suggested by Kevin strong. I was fortunate enough to have a suitable
candidate on the bathroom door in my shop. So...it was sacrificed for the
good of the project. My house is full of the same type doorknob but
A point that has not been mentioned is that a blowout in the mudring would
have little effect in putting out the fire! A breech here would simply blow
downwards toward the track or into an ashpan. Not to mention if the water
was this low, there would be no steam anyway.
Bob
Gerhard,
Thank you for your candid remarks.
It seems prudent not to use this as an only loco.
Gary - glad to have wise advice from so many
- Original Message -
From: "Gerhard Karl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 2
Regarding "In the case of the mudring, my guess is with a small boiler the
remaining water flashes into steam with the release of pressure, causing
the mud ring joint to melt from the residual heat and allowing this
pressure to be vented as well." CWolcott
Another question born from ignorance..
> >Henk Bunte, discusses the use soft solder on the firebox stays of his
> coal-fired 0-4-0. In >the event that the boiler water level gets too low
> the solder melts and the resulting
> >leaks douse the fire in the fire box.
>
> This doesn't make sense to me on several levels but if it makes
Harry and others,
A question born of ignorance
Meths fired locos can burn a boiler or melt it down because when water is
too low the fire heat drops significantly because the blower is no longer
operating (no steam to create draft for the fire).
Is there a way to build in a heat sensor that w
In a message dated 2/26/02 1:18:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Explain to me how the boiler will be hot enough to
melt the solder, and yet expel liquid water onto the fire? >>
Fusible plugs are usually in the crown sheet of a boiler. When a crown sheet
gets exposed
Harry,
It is all too easy to have a meltdown on a Gauge 1 silver-soldered boiler
when the water gets low.
(Not with alcohol firing as far as I know.)
But butane fired will certainly get into trouble fast.
The Aster Pennsy K4 is prone to this due to the gauge glass being set too
low.
A not-very-exp
At 04:16 AM 2/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I think my problem with the notion is that soft solder (IIRC) melts at
>about 500 degrees F. Explain to me . . . . . .
>Paul
Convtional 60/40 soft solder melts at around 425°F-450°F.
> Water, at atmospheric pressure(14.7 psia), boils at 200 degrees F.
It is my understanding that in 1:1 scale engines a fusible plug was in
the top of the firebox. (In this case, the stay joints.) As the water
level fell to dangerous levels, the water would not be able to absorb
all the heat being generated in the firebox and the plug would melt.
The resultin
>wouldn't name a Tich "Viscount of Rutland" or some such would you? It
>wouldn't quite fit would it.
Oh, I don't know, what was that little country in the movie 'The mouse that roared!" ?
The might name a Tich 'Marque of ...' :-)
But you are probably right. Maybe you could follow the food t
Art Walker wrote:
>
> Steam is a very effective fire douser, is it not ?
>
I wouldn't be surprised. Though, I'm not sure if weakening the boiler
structure(mud rings and staybolts are structural elements) is wise in
order to douse the fire. What if the flow of steam is insufficient to
compensat
Going back on this thread, someone made a comment about the soft solder
effectively being a back up to the safety valve Therefore assuming a
blockage somewhere, the boiler would continue to make steam which will raise
the pressure, which will in turn raise the temperature at which the water
w
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: soft solder joints (was Harris book)
> I think my problem with the notion is that soft solder (IIRC) melts a
Hello Gary,
as i live in Germany i know Mr. Regner and i have built a small Regner
loco ( a 0-4-0T Frieda). I am very pleased with this loco and i know a
lot of other modellers, who are satisfied with Regner steam locos. Mr
Regner is known here as a very helpful supplier.
But : the Württembergisc
Harry Wade wrote:
>
>
> This doesn't make sense to me on several levels but if it makes Henk feel
> better . . . . .
>
I think my problem with the notion is that soft solder (IIRC) melts at
about 500 degrees F. Water, at atmospheric pressure(14.7 psia), boils
at 200 degrees F. Explain to me
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