Dear Noam,
You pose interesting questions...
> I hope this is not off topic...
Certainly on topic for me!!
> Will a south facing vertical dial split
> into 15 degrees using a polar gnomon
> divide the day in the exact same way
> as an ancient Greek or roman sundial
> such as a haemuspherium wit
I hope this is not off topic, but the discussion brought to mind a question
that I have.
Will a south facing vertical dial split into 15 degrees using a polar gnomon
divide the day in the exact same way as an ancient Greek or roman sundial such
as a haemuspherium with a vertical or horizontal
Dear Karlheinz
Thank you for sending us this information...
> only in 1985 there were placed a polar
> gnomon on the dial from "1346"...
>
> If the date of 1346 is correct nobody
> knows.
I think you said 1346 is the date of the
buttress into which the sundial is cut.
This is clearly a poor basi
enuhren.de/artikel.htm
karlheinz
-Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-
Von: Frans W. Maes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sundial <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Verschickt: So., 24. Aug. 2008, 12:57
Thema: Re: equal and unequal hours
Dear all,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] w
quot; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc :
Date : Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:46:04 +0200
Subject : Re: equal and unequal hours
> I think, Severino is right. Actually I never found in the first texts the
> attribute "Italian" nor "Italic" (I mean medieval texts, usually
&g
inconclusive.
I will send you the scanned document that Reinhold Kriegler sent me with
pictures of the four sundials on the church.
Regards, Roger
From: Gianni Ferrari
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:46 PM
To: LISTA INGLESE
Subject: Re: equal and unequal hours
Braunschweig Cathedral sundial
Braunschweig Cathedral sundial again - 2
I am afraid but, perhaps, I have not understood anything! :-(
Mario Arnaldi has written me that the Brunswick sundial on which time ago
I have written a "Note" is one of the two ancient clocks of the cathedral, BUT
IT IS NOT that on which we are spe
t
times, people next these countries called them "Polish hours" or
"Czechoslovakian hours" etc.
Mario
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "gfmerid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "sundial" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thurs
Braunschweig Cathedral sundial again !
I don't know the article of Curt Roslund in the BSS Bulletin, september
2005, pag. 116-119 about the the vertical sundial of Braunschweig Cathedral
of 1346 with the equal hour lines and a polar gnomon but …
in 1999 I have written a Note, published in our
Dear Gianni,
It is good to have Mario's comment...
> Mario Catamo has suggested me that very probably
> the term "Italic" (in Italic hours) comes from
> the Latin word "Italicus" (that means "Italian"),
> that the word "Italianus" doesn't exist in Latin
> and that until the end of the XVIII centu
ial Header ---
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : "LISTA INGLESE" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc :
Date : Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:48:52 +0200
Subject : Re: equal and unequal hours
> Mario Catamo has suggested me that very probably the term "Italic&qu
Mario Catamo has suggested me that very probably the term "Italic" (in
Italic hours) comes from the Latin word "Italicus" (that means
"Italian"), that the word "Italianus" doesn't exist in Latin and that until
the end of the XVIII century almost all the scientific texts (and also the
gnomonic
Sorry, I think that my poor English made me misunderstood. When I wrote «Dear
Willi and Roger, that sundial is not the one that Severino means. It is older.»
I actually mean that Severino was speaking about other two sundials on the
dome, older that the one shown in the photographs that you got
Dear Mario,
Many thanks for your kind explanation...
> Censorinus and Gellius citing Varro say that
> in Rome the day was intended in two ways: natural
> and civil.
I am slowly gaining some understanding of time in
ancient Rome. Gianni Ferrari has pointed us at:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/
equal and unequal hours
Dear Karlheinz,
I have now read your article more carefully.
It is excellent, one of the most interesting
rticles I have read for a long time!
I think now understand your comment...
> ...you see that the winter circle is not
divided in 12 parts as it should be for
uneq
Dear Karlheinz,
I have now read your article more carefully.
It is excellent, one of the most interesting
articles I have read for a long time!
I think now understand your comment...
> ...you see that the winter circle is not
> divided in 12 parts as it should be for
> unequal hours.
I misinte
Dear all,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> It is true that the first mechanical clocks was on the towers around
> the begin of the 1300. And the first vertical sundials with the polar
> gnomon was done arond the first half of 1300. The interesting
> articles of Curt Roslund in the BSS Bulletin, septe
Schaldach wrote:
> Dear Frank,
> we should recognized that sundials were found from Hellenistic and Roman
> times with polar-oriented gnomons.
Yes, I can confirm this. I found a complete horizontal sundial (unknowed to
Gibbs catalogue) from Pompei, on 2005. This have temporary hours and an
Frank King scripsit:
Equal hours were not, though, used for governing
ordinary life.
-
This is not quite right. Equal hours were not used from common people in their
ordinary life, but used for civil porpouses.
Censorinus and Gellius citing Varro say that in Rome the day was
Dear Willi and Roger, that sundial is not the one that Severino means.
It is older.
Mario
-
Mario Arnaldi
Via Cavour, 57/c
48100 Ravenna
Italy
Lat. 44° 25' N - Lon. 12° 12' E
Redazione di "GNOMONICA ITALIANA" rivista di storia, art
Dear all,
The DGC catalog mentions 4 sundials on the Braunschweig cathedral. The
discussion does not refer to the 'new' ones from 1518 and 1715, but to
two older ones, from about 1334 and about 1346. The hour line patterns
(attached) show two ways of playing around with the lines, in the
tria
Dear Roger,
Yes, it is easy to get the "wrong" sundial when
looking at Braunschweig Cathedral!!
The bigger (17th century?) dial has recently been
restored and I have in front of me a newspaper
cutting which explains:
Die Kosten von rund 700,000 Euro werden von
der Dombaustiftung und von priv
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Verschickt: Fr., 22. Aug. 2008, 11:49
Thema: Re: equal and unequal hours
Dear Frans,
You ask a very perceptive question:
> > No doubt the transition to equal hours (whether
> starting at noon, midnight, sunrise or sunset)
> was gr
dual but I feel it long predates m
AIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Frank.King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "sundial" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: equal and unequal hours
Dear Frank, Maes and other friends,
The question about the introduction of use of the polar gnomon is
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Frank.King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "sundial" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: equal and unequal hours
>
> Dear Frank, Maes and other friends,
>
> The
Dear Frank, Maes and other friends,
The question about the introduction of use of the polar gnomon is old.
Actually, are very few the informations about this. Rohr wrote in his book that
the polar gnomon was introduced in Europe with the Crusaders returning from the
arabian country. I also th
Hello Keith,
perhaps you may find some news here
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Dies.html
Best wishes
Gianni
2008/8/22 Keith E. Brandt, WD9GET <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Frank King scripsit:
>
> Equal hours were not, though, used for governing
> ordinary life. As
Sundial List,
Just for completeness, there is a discussion of the possible use of
equal hours in Egypt in about 1300 BCE in Marshall Clagett's source
book "Ancient Egyptian Science" Volume II, "Calendars, Clocks, and
Astronomy" 1995, pp. 98-106, in the section "Traces of a 24-hour day
with Equ
Dear Frans,
Like Gianni, you produce splendid scholarly
input to this list!
I promised not to challenge your answer so
I will constrain this reply accordingly!
You have made me think about Zinner's
imagination...
If you have a medieval sundial such as you
describe [a vertical dial, assumed dire
D]>
To: "Frank King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Sundial" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: equal and unequal hours
>
> Dear Frank (King),
>
> Frank King wrote:
>
>> No doubt the transition to equal hours (wh
Frank King scripsit:
Equal hours were not, though, used for governing
ordinary life. As Gianni Ferrari says:
For what I know the equal hours were never used
in western classical antiquity by the common
people and they were used only from astronomers
and scholars in their calculati
Dear Frank,
Frank King wrote:
> You don't need a polar-oriented gnomon to
> indicate equal hours (starting at noon or
> midnight) although it certainly helps.
>
The way I view the transition from temporary to equal hours follows
Zinner's reasoning. The usual medieval sundial was vertical and
s
Dear Frans,
You ask a very perceptive question:
> > No doubt the transition to equal hours (whether
> > starting at noon, midnight, sunrise or sunset)
> > was gradual but I feel it long predates mechanical
> > clocks.
> Do you have any evidence supporting your feeling?
No! I had heard (from yo
Dear Frank (King),
Frank King wrote:
> No doubt the transition to equal hours (whether
> starting at noon, midnight, sunrise or sunset)
> was gradual but I feel it long predates mechanical
> clocks.
Do you have any evidence supporting your feeling?
I have studied the question when the pole-styl
Dear Frank,
> Mixed in with the discussion ... was a question
> ... about when the use of equal hours by the
> Romans began.
You are quite right that, in astronomical matters,
equal hours were used in antiquity. As you say:
> Little doubt that the refined values quoted by
> these ancient fello
Greetings fellow dialists,
Mixed in with the discussion on the Missouri Ottoman dial was a question
from Frank King about when the use of equal hours by the Romans began. I
don't know the answer but Bede quoted Pliny the Elder as giving a value
for the daily retardation of the moon. It was a /do
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