Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addrN:*

2015-01-22 19:44 GMT+01:00 fly : > In Germany the address always belongs to the plot and not to the > building and they are assigned in advance. > This is not correct. The decision is up to the local government. In most local "Hausnummer-Satzung" (by-law about housenumber) that I've looked at the

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

I cannot understand your example without illustration. > Hide the internals from the end-users. We can easily hide *something*:japanese=yes *something*:korean=yes under single field *something*=**, but not vice versa. I suggested plugin for JOSM that will present multiple subkeys as text field or

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Никита wrote: > we don't need to teach every person how to parse "japanese" from > cuisine=mexican;japanese > using f#$% regexes In my code editor I can search for "complete word" by ticking a checkbox, how simple is that ? It will not match japaneseinword or

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 64, Issue 110

On 23/01/2015 10:22 AM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 14:38:34 -0800 From: Bryce Nesbitt To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

How about "e-bacconist"? Actually, I'm not seriously recommending it. I thought I had just made up something new and unique, albeit tongue-in-cheek. However, I just googled it and it appears to be a thing. Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@opens

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 01/22/2015 08:02 AM, Dave F. wrote: Hi A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-) Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap

On Jan 22, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > . . . Or other places: > > tourism=camp_site > drinking_water=no > toilets=yes > > > At the first level of tagging these can be seen as attributes of the amenity, > much like opening hours, website, etc.. > If detailed tagging is done (e.g. i

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Kotya Karapetyan wrote: > 7. Personally, I believe drinking_water=* is a much better solution > than amenity=drinking_water: > 7.1) The source of drinking water (which, I fully agree, is important > for a lot of users) may not be a dedicated amenity, and still be

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> Using a xxx:yyy schema also requires checkboxes besides every existing value in JOSM presets. So I don't see how it is any easier for new mappers or preset creators. Problem in multiple values in value part in *key=value.* How iD should parse cuisine=mexican;japanese? This work repeated every t

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> opening_hours:Mo-We 08:00-17:00 = yes > opening_hours:Th-Fr 08:00-21:00 = yes > would in my opinion lead to an inordinate number of subkeys. If you were reading other people messages you would probably notice that opening_hours=* tag was mentioned as minor exception to general rule *not to use

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 1/22/15 23:13 , fly wrote: No, but it is common sence to introduce tags in proposal name space and once they are in common use accept them because of it use. Well, you can go ahead and create dozens of proposals that will go nowhere. I have completely given up on that process. It will be d

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Kotya Karapetyan wrote: > 2. Having said this, I would like to draw your attention to the fact > that people who currently actively oppose the proposal have not > participated in a 4-month discussion, where most of the current > concerns were raised and analysed.

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> Presets are a problem [1],[2] and it is not easy to present tag list with more than 50 tags per object. This is irrelevant to multivalued keys or multiple subkeys problem actually. You need to organize 50 variants under some checkboxes or select lists. It will be hard regardless if we decide to

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:13 AM, Kotya Karapetyan wrote: > Dear all, > > As of today, a total of 16 votes have been submitted, 11 of them are > approvals. Since 2 weeks have passed and the required number of votes > (15) has been reached, I have closed the voting and will proceed with > clean up.

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Propaganda. Propaganda. Propaganda. > But it's harder to get all tags in category. How would you get all the payment methods, not the exact 'ellectrico'? Why normal person need to know about all payments methods if he/she only have mastercard/ellectrico/coins? You probably never use data at all.

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22/01/2015, fly wrote: The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db was also contributed by no more than 1-2 mappers. I suggest contacting them to make sure that they are ok with "e_cigarette", and then make the

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Am 22.01.2015 um 21:32 schrieb Tod Fitch: > I've been following this and the addrN thread with a mixture of amusement and > irritation. > > Lots of the arguments come down to how easy it is to parse using some tool or > another. Or whether the problem the original poster was trying to address >

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Am 22.01.2015 um 19:43 schrieb Matthijs Melissen: > On 22 January 2015 at 18:00, fly wrote: >> Well the first page should be under proposal and it should not be listed >> under shop or if only under some proposal paragraph > > Only six shop types have been approved by the wiki/voting process: > b

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size low. >From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And associatedStreet relations

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Am 22.01.2015 um 18:08 schrieb Marc Gemis: > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:49 PM, althio > wrote: Well at least iD knows quite well about the semi-colon: Just merge two ways together and you might get access=no;yes highway=primary;path without any warning. >> New p

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Am 2015-01-22 um 21:41 schrieb Michael Reichert: > Worldwide, 3,573,027 objects are member of an associatedStreet relation > and have the role "house". [1,2] 49,260,005 objects are tagged with > addr:housenumber=*. That's why 7.2 % of all adresses in OSM are mapped > using relations. [1] https://

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 2015-01-22 um 16:14 schrieb Vincent Pottier: > Le 22/01/2015 14:00, althio a écrit : >>> Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of >>> associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it >>> doesn't do that for relations). > UK

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi Dan, Am 2015-01-22 um 13:06 schrieb Dan S: > 2015-01-22 6:53 GMT+00:00 Marc Gemis : >> It seems like the German community started some voting process on the >> deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list and >> on the forum). >> >> Discussion is going on on the wiki

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

I've been following this and the addrN thread with a mixture of amusement and irritation. Lots of the arguments come down to how easy it is to parse using some tool or another. Or whether the problem the original poster was trying to address actually exists. With respect objects that have mult

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> Am 22.01.2015 um 14:07 schrieb Jo : > > network DLVB;IBXL;TECB;TECC;IBXL > operator De Lijn;STIB/MIVB;TEC;STIB/MIVB > > > > > > > I'd completely refrain in this case from tagging these to one object and use > relations instead. __

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

a minor issue with semicolon separated lists: we don't have yet defined how to escape actual semicolons in values. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

A) For which keys and/or type of data are semicolon lists pertinent? For keys that can logically have multiple values and that are not the main/defining key of the object. B) How can semicolon lists be handled better in the different editors? If you are using a tag from a preset, iD theorically ca

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 15-01-22 01:44 PM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 18:08:49 +0100 > From: Marc Gemis > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" > > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists > Message-ID: > > Con

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addrN:*

Am 22.01.2015 um 04:02 schrieb John F. Eldredge: > If you have a "strictly delimited plot of land", with no house currently > built upon it, but which is intended for later construction, does it > have a house number? Or is the address only assigned once a building is > built? In Germany the add

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22 January 2015 at 18:00, fly wrote: > Well the first page should be under proposal and it should not be listed > under shop or if only under some proposal paragraph Only six shop types have been approved by the wiki/voting process: bakery, baby_care, second_hand, seafood, bookmaker, and lotte

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22/01/2015, Andreas Goss wrote: >> Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice. > > Only for whitespace as far as I know. So I don't see a issue here. That surprises me, but looking at a dump of Ireland (taginfo search is too coarse, so I used some local data I ha

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Hello, Le 22/01/2015 17:50, Andreas Goss a écrit : I just created the page, because the tag was used (TagInfo), but not documented. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Undocumented_Tags And I added some more explanations on it because it was marked as undocumented. The added

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 22/01/2015, Dmitry Kiselev wrote: > As I think, > > replace > key=val1;val2 > with > key: val1 =* > key: val2 =* key:subkey=* is only usable (or even recomended) for standardized subkeys. If instead you have a random value (like a road reference or a street name), another scheme

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Am 22.01.2015 um 16:22 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: > On 22/01/2015, althio wrote: >> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others Well the first page should be un

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:49 PM, althio wrote: > New people can have problems or make mistakes and then experienced > users can help and point to recommended tagging or explain good > practices . Not everybody reaches out to community for help. Probably many just stop mapping, requiring them to

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice. Only for whitespace as far as I know. So I don't see a issue here. I would even say using _ is wrong. e_cigarette => "e cigarette" e-cigarette => "e-cigarette" The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors.

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22/01/2015 15:22, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: On 22/01/2015, althio wrote: Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very e

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

>> Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki. >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others > > The wiki page is very recent with only two contributors. I wouldn't be > surprised if "e-cigarette" in the db w

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

>> My little +1 for key:subkey=* > > New people don't know how to add new keys. So they will have problems to add > cuisine:antwerp = yes (in case such a thing would exist :-) ). > it's much easier to come up with cuisine=Antwerp, especially when there is > an input field "cuisine". New people can

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

> Am 22.01.2015 um 15:02 schrieb Dave F. : > > To me, electronic_cigarettes is clearer & should be used, +1 cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Tagging road illumination quality

> Am 18.01.2015 um 17:21 schrieb Volker Schmidt : > > Streetlamp mapping does not help. > All our city cycleways are within the lighting radius of street lamps, but > they are often interspersed with street-linign trees. > lamps may be on the opposite side of the street than the cyclepath > st

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22/01/2015, althio wrote: > Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others Using "-" instead of "_" goes against a very established tagging practice. The wiki pag

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 22/01/2015 14:00, althio a écrit : Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it doesn't do that for relations). UK ~9000 PL

Re: [Tagging] Tagging road illumination quality

Volker Schmidt wrote: >I am very cautious about any of this kind of measurement for the following >reasons: >1) the results will be very difficult to standardise >2) the effort is far beyond that what a mapper can reasonably do. Oh well, I guess I'll have to write a comment here, because I recen

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Existing pages: value "e-cigarette" is referenced in the wiki. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3De-cigarette http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop#Others On 22 January 2015 at 15:43, Dave F. wrote: > Ah, As normal cigarettes are sold in multiples I didn't think of searching >

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

2015-01-22 15:48 GMT+01:00 Dmitry Kiselev : > Anyway none of programmers couldn't be freed out of burden to support both > of them. > But, at least we could try to establish one delimiter. > Thanks for those clear and true words. ___ Tagging mailing lis

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

As I think, replace     key=val1;val2 with     key: val1 =*     key: val2 =* Is just a transposition of problem. Yes, it's easier now to test for any particular value, but harder to get all the values inside category. For key=val1;val2 you need some kind of regex or smarter application wh

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Ah, As normal cigarettes are sold in multiples I didn't think of searching for the singular, but I guess people only buy one of these electronic types. Dave F. On 22/01/2015 14:16, Matthijs Melissen wrote: On 22 January 2015 at 14:02, Dave F. wrote: A shop that solely sells electronic cigar

Re: [Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

On 22 January 2015 at 14:02, Dave F. wrote: > A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I > guess this type > of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified > tag, if there's ever > been such a thing in OSM :-) Yes, I also think this is o

[Tagging] Electronic or 'e' cigarettes?

Hi A shop that solely sells electronic cigarettes has been added locally. I guess this type of product will be on the increase so I think it's best to clarify unified tag, if there's ever been such a thing in OSM :-) Checking Tag-info it's 8/6 in favour of electronic_cigarettes over e-cigaret

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addrN:*

Hi Friedrich. I can't say for whole World, as for Russia we have plots of lands having addresses without buildings. They are not always dedicated to be build up with something. There is three ways, (maybe more, but i don't know for sure): 1. Large landuses as landuse=industrial may have their o

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addrN:*

On 21.01.2015 08:28, Markus Lindholm wrote: > Before we get carried away by a zillion relations I think we have to > answer the questions as to what purpose do we want to explicitly > associate an address with a POI or a building. > > Is it so that the data consumer can find her way to a POI? That

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Rattling on about those bus stops, I have an other example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/485938967 bus yes highway bus_stop

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of > associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it > doesn't do that for relations). This shows a map, I don't know if this is what you are looking for: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/type=associatedStreet#ma

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addrN:*

On 22.01.2015 04:02, John F. Eldredge wrote: > If you have a "strictly delimited plot of land", with no house currently > built upon it, but which is intended for later construction, does it have a > house number? Or is the address only assigned once a building is built? When it is already intend

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

2015-01-22 6:53 GMT+00:00 Marc Gemis : > It seems like the German community started some voting process on the > deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list and > on the forum). > > Discussion is going on on the wiki > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Relation:ass

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:59 PM, althio althio wrote: > > I even find the second example more difficult to visualize. It's just > worse > > than the first in every respect. > > From a mapper's point of view > My little +1 for key:subkey=* > New people don't know how to add new keys. So they wil

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> It is not as formal as a proposal voting. I would like to know how the > community (those who vote) think about associatedStreet relations. I think > that in Germany the majority does not like them (anymore). > I will announce a end date. This end date will be date of announcement of end > of

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> I even find the second example more difficult to visualize. It's just worse > than the first in every respect. >From a mapper's point of view My little +1 for key:subkey=* In free text like this thread, several key:subkey=* may look more heavy and complicated than key=values;separated;by;semico

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

It's an actual example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/80725474 https://delijn.be/nl/haltes/halte/303059 (real time information) 121 characters... there's still some breathing room. I guess the risk of the street getting congested is higher than hitting the 255 characters limit. Jo _

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Hi Jo/Polyglot and list, On 22 January 2015 at 12:01, Jo wrote: > Which too schemes? I think you'd need to be more specific. 1. key=values;separated;by;semicolon 2. several key:subkey=* > route_ref:De_Lijn=1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;284;285;310;315;316;317;333;334;335;337;351;352;358;370;371;372;373;374

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 22. Januar 2015 11:45:47 MEZ, schrieb althio althio : > > Please vote here: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Relation:associatedStreet > > Is this a formal voting? It is not as formal as a proposal voting. I would like to know how the community (those who vote) think about a

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Which too schemes? I think you'd need to be more specific. As for deprecating semicolon-delimited lists. I don't think it's practical to abolish them completely, so they'll have to stay. I do agree that it makes sense to try and avoid them as much as possible, but it's simply not always possible.

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

First point: It is good that several people invent, propose and use various schemes. Second point: At some point, unification of schemes with similar intent would be great. As usage grows, having the same kind of data treated differently is a pain for everyone, mappers, developers, maintainers and

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> Please vote here: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Relation:associatedStreet Is this a formal voting? Is there a date for start and end vote? It looks strange, hidden on a Talk:page without the usual template or RFC or call for votes on the international mailing lists. althio __

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 2015-01-22 um 07:53 schrieb Marc Gemis: > It seems like the German community started some voting process on the > deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list > and on the forum). Right: I iniated the discussion. > Discussion is going on on the wiki > https://w