[Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

I was looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today. We have too many tags for different kinds of lifeguards. This is too confusing. I don’t want to have to show all these choices to iD users. tag uses https://wiki.ope

[Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Graeme Fitzpatrick graemefitz1 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 02:13:47 UTC 2018 > So the photos on > https://wiki.openstr

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

identical to lifeguard_base All the usual arguments for and against trying to change tags “by decree” apply… From: Bryan Housel Sent: Monday, 11 June 2018 14:22 To: osm-tagging Subject: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard I was looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

I think having this level of separation is very important and we should encourage tagging the exact type of lifeguard facility over a generic emergency=lifeguard. However in the same way the generic highway=road can be used if the highway classification isn't known, we could add emergency=lifeguar

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> Though I’m not fundamentally opposed to making it a hierarchical tag along > the lines of: > emergency=lifeguard > lifeguard=base/place/platform/tower Sounds good - lets do it! What are the next steps? > All the usual arguments for and against trying to change tags “by decree” > apply… Be

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> > > *From:* Bryan Housel > *Sent:* Monday, 11 June 2018 14:22 > *To:* osm-tagging > *Subject:* [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > > > > I was looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:emergency today. > > > > We have too many tags for different kinds

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 11 June 2018 at 15:16, Bryan Housel wrote: > > Sounds good - lets do it! > What are the next steps? > Let's wait for people to weigh in, and see if we have a consensus on which way to proceed. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https:

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

From: Andrew Harvey Sent: Monday, 11 June 2018 15:31 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > Also, water_rescue_station is probably identical to lifeguard_base Agree based on the description given at https://wiki.openstreetmap.

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 11/06/18 15:39, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: *From:*Andrew Harvey *Sent:* Monday, 11 June 2018 15:31 *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > Also, water_rescue_station is probably identical to lifeguard_base Ag

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 11 June 2018 at 15:31, Andrew Harvey wrote: > > Also, water_rescue_station is probably identical to lifeguard_base > > > Agree based on the description given at https://wiki.openstreetmap. > org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dwater_rescue_station it sounds like > lifeguard_base. > Had a look at https:/

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 11 June 2018 at 17:25, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 11/06/18 15:39, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: > > *From:* Andrew Harvey > > *Sent:* Monday, 11 June 2018 15:31 > *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > *Subject:* Re:

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

arin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 11/06/18 15:39, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: >> >> *From:* Andrew Harvey >> >> *Sent:* Monday, 11 June 2018 15:31 >> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools >> >> *Subject:* Re: [T

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

;>> *Sent:* Monday, 11 June 2018 15:31 >>> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard >>> >>> >>> >>> > Also, water_rescue_station is probably identical to lifegua

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 17 June 2018 at 21:34, Andrew Harvey wrote: > If the consensus is to change it to emergency=lifeguard + lifeguard=*, > then I think this needs to be changed in: > > 1. The wiki > > > I don't think it's far to the people who put the effort in to do a great > job on the wiki documentation and th

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 16:01 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard while some show a shape in one image, but other's, possibly during the northern winter, show an empty deserted beach. I would con

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18/06/18 16:24, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: *From:*Graeme Fitzpatrick *Sent:* Monday, 18 June 2018 16:01 *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard while some show a shape in one image, but other's, possibly durin

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

e 2018 16:01 > To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > > > > while some show a shape in one image, but other's, possibly during the > northern winter, show an empty deserted beach. > > > > > >

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 17:35 To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard On 18/06/18 16:24, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au <mailto:osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au> wrote: From: Graeme Fitzpatrick <

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> -Original Message- > From: Marc Gemis > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 17:59 > To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > > If you use Google translate from English "lifeguard" to Russian, > you g

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

18:39, wrote: > *From:* Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday, 18 June 2018 17:35 > *To:* tagging@openstreetmap.org > *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > > > > On 18/06/18 16:24, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: > > *From:* Graeme

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18/06/18 18:39, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote: *From:*Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> *Sent:* Monday, 18 June 2018 17:35 *To:* tagging@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard On 18/06/18 16:24, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au <mailto

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

emergency=lifeguard lifeguard=place is appropriate for that. From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 20:44 To: tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard On 18/06/18 18:39, osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au <mailto

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-18 13:04 GMT+02:00 : > > For what it’s worth, I fully agree with you. Any emergency=lifeguard[_*] > that’s not anywhere close to water is pretty much guaranteed to be a > tagging error. > > > > While on the topic of lifeguards, lifeguard=place on a node doesn’t really > fit to beaches wher

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 21:04, wrote: > > > While on the topic of lifeguards, lifeguard=place on a node doesn’t really > fit to beaches where there a lifeguard place is usually, but it can be > anywhere in a larger section of the beach on a day by day basis, depending > on the weather and sea conditio

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-18 13:17 GMT+02:00 Andrew Harvey : > Do we have any tagging scheme for “an area in which it is likely for a >> lifeguard to be”? I’m not sure if simply tagging an area with >> emergency=lifeguard lifeguard=place is appropriate for that. >> > > supervised

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

From: Andrew Harvey Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 21:17 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard Do we have any tagging scheme for “an area in which it is likely for a lifeguard to be”? I’m not sure if simply tagging an area with emergency

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 21:28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > 2018-06-18 13:17 GMT+02:00 Andrew Harvey : > >> Do we have any tagging scheme for “an area in which it is likely for a >>> lifeguard to be”? I’m not sure if simply tagging an area with >>> emergency=lifeguard lifeguard=place is appropriate f

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Am 11.06.2018 um 23:09 schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick: Had a look at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasserrettungsstation & it's a purely German organisation, which would appear to be life guards, although with possibly a bit of Coast Guard / Marine Rescue included? Actually, this would be the gen

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Wow, thanks everybody for your thoughts. Going through a few comments On 18 June 2018 at 17:58, Marc Gemis wrote: > If you use Google translate from English "lifeguard" to Russian, you > get Спасатель > Doing the translation in the other direction, (so from Спасатель to > English) you get first

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 16:24, wrote: > > > I didn’t check it out myself, but, based on what you wrote, probably. > Also, probably means that it’s not a good idea to just do a mechanical edit > from the current tags to the new ones without reviewing all of them. > No, this will have to be a manual ch

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 21:17, Andrew Harvey wrote: > >> Do we have any tagging scheme for “an area in which it is likely for a >> lifeguard to be”? I’m not sure if simply tagging an area with >> emergency=lifeguard lifeguard=place is appropriate for that. >> > > supervised

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 3:18 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > No, this will have to be a manual check, but there's only ~900 worldwide so > not impossible. Some should be pretty straight forward - if a building > beside the beach is marked as a base, then that's fine, but an apparently > empt

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 21:38, wrote: > > > > Well, take as an example this beach: https://www.openstreetmap.org/ > way/17960956 > > > > I don’t think a blanket supervised=yes or lifeguard=yes is appropriate for > that. > > > > But there are multiple areas, each maybe a few 100m, somewhere in which a >

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 18 June 2018 at 21:15, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > "lifeguard=place" is currently not used at all, and I do not believe it > is a good tag. "place" is so generic, it doesn't allow for any deduction of > meaning more than "thing" or "feature", and it is used for toponyms as a > key in OSM.

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19 June 2018 at 08:45, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > That's the concern I have with "place" - our lifesavers operate out of a > surf club, a permanent building behind the beach (lifeguard=base). Each > morning, they will decide the safest part of the beach, so will set up 200 > m's right of th

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Something like that is exactly what I as looking for… From: Graeme Fitzpatrick Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2018 14:24 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard On 19 June 2018 at 08:45, Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

8, wrote: > Something like that is exactly what I as looking for… > > > > *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick > *Sent:* Tuesday, 19 June 2018 14:24 > *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools < > tagging@openstreetmap.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emergency=life

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> I'll take a stab at ambulance / paramedic / emergency rescue or something > along those lines, but I think we're agreed it's not a "lifeguard"? I agree, but perhaps we should involve the Russian community to improve the wiki, as part of the mistagging is happening there. _

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19 June 2018 at 08:34, Tod Fitch wrote: > > Might want to check if there is some sort of tag indicating seasonal > before removing from the map. > > On the beach near me many of the lifeguard structures are built on what > amounts to a sledge and are dragged to storage at the end of the summer

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19 June 2018 at 16:30, Marc Gemis wrote: > > I'll take a stab at ambulance / paramedic / emergency rescue or > something along those lines, but I think we're agreed it's not a > "lifeguard"? > > > I agree, but perhaps we should involve the Russian community to > improve the wiki, as part of th

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-18 18:03 GMT+02:00 Tobias Wrede : > Am 11.06.2018 um 23:09 schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick: > > Had a look at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasserrettungsstation & it's > a purely German organisation, which would appear to be life guards, > although with possibly a bit of Coast Guard / Marine R

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

From: Martin Koppenhoefer Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2018 18:24 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard IMHO, if you want to tag the former, be explicit, do not use amenity=lifeguard because it is ambiguous, use something like amenity

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19/06/18 16:52, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On 19 June 2018 at 16:30, Marc Gemis > wrote: > I'll take a stab at ambulance / paramedic / emergency rescue or something along those lines, but I think we're agreed it's not a "lifeguard"? I agree, but p

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-19 10:56 GMT+02:00 : > > > The whole purpose of this thread is to move from emergency=lifeguard_base > to emergency=lifeguard + lifeguard=base. > > > > And the existing existing=water_rescue_station seem to be identical in > meaning to lifeguard_base, as such should be changed into > emerg

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Something like that is exactly what I as looking for… *From:*Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 19 June 2018 14:24 *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] emerg

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Martin, which part? The whole reason this discussion started is because Bryan wants to offer a way to tag a lifeguard facility iD without forcing users to choose the exact kind of lifeguard facility. At the moment with the current documentation on the wiki you need to choose what type, and can't sa

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-19 11:17 GMT+02:00 Andrew Harvey : > Martin, which part? The whole reason this discussion started is because > Bryan wants to offer a way to tag a lifeguard facility iD without forcing > users to choose the exact kind of lifeguard facility. At the moment with > the current documentation on

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> On Jun 19, 2018, at 7:41 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > 2018-06-19 11:17 GMT+02:00 Andrew Harvey >: > Martin, which part? The whole reason this discussion started is because Bryan > wants to offer a way to tag a lifeguard facility iD without forcing u

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Don't want to comment on the subject itself but since you open a lot of tagging discussions w.r.t. presets in iD i am wondering if there is a documented policy on presets in iD and if not if it might be time to think about having one. The reason i am asking is that by bringing up a tagging iss

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Am 19.06.2018 um 13:41 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: water_rescue_station vs. lifeguard_base there are 216 emergency=water_rescue_station which to me seems a pretty self explanatory tag to indicate a somehow permanent presence of lifeguards with some infrastructure. The wiki says it is in pr

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Le 19. 06. 18 à 13:56, Bryan Housel a écrit : >> the lifeguard base is defined for storage and administration > It could be `office=lifeguard` that look like a good idea at least for the administration ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

infrastructure than a lifeguard_tower. > -Original Message- > From: marc marc > Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2018 22:24 > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard > > Le 19. 06. 18 à 13:56, Bryan Housel a écrit : > >> the lifegua

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

marc >> Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2018 22:24 >> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org >> Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard >> >> Le 19. 06. 18 à 13:56, Bryan Housel a écrit : >>>> the lifeguard base is defined for storage and administration >>

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-19 15:14 GMT+02:00 Bryan Housel : > Thank you for checking! > I guess those can be`emergency=lifeguard + lifeguard=base` > (what was decided before) "decided"? I suggest you use a different key than "emergency" for this new tag you intend to introduce via iD presets, the above would

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Yes it was settled a week ago The migration is being discussed here: https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging/issues/1 This thread can end now :) Thanks, Bryan > On Jun 19, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > > > 2018-06-19 1

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 9:23 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On 19 June 2018 at 08:45, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > > That's the concern I have with "place" - our lifesavers operate out of a surf > club, a permanent building behind the beach (lifeguard=base). Ea

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19/06/2018 14:37, Bryan Housel wrote: Yes it was settled a week ago The migration is being discussed here: https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging/issues/1 This thread can end now :) Thanks, Bryan So as well as being lead developer on an OSM editor you reckon that you've not been getting

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-19 15:37 GMT+02:00 Bryan Housel : > Yes it was settled a week ago > The migration is being discussed here: https://github.com/osmlab/ > osm-tagging/issues/1 > This thread can end now :) > I don't believe the OSM community should allow the maintainer of their default editor to introduce

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Basically, yeah 😂 > On Jun 19, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Andy Townsend wrote: > > On 19/06/2018 14:37, Bryan Housel wrote: >> Yes it was settled a week ago >> The migration is being discussed here: >> https://github.com/osmlab/osm-tagging/issues/1 >> This thread can end now :) >> >> Thanks, Bryan >>

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> This is not the first time, and you have stated more than once your idea of > tag creation and endorsement is top down, with the software maintainer > deciding the tags on the input side, sweeping away the confusing plurality of > comunity created tags. That’s not really what I think - are y

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

> Proposals don’t work - see `transit:lanes`.. see the long thread about `landcover vs landuse`. etc. etc. Being active early in the proposal process, to try to spot future issues implementing the proposed tags in editors is the best solution here, in my opinion. On 20 June 2018 at 00:06, Bryan

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Hi, On 19.06.2018 14:16, Christoph Hormann wrote: > seems to be quite the opposite of that approach. Now i know of course > an editor and its presets is not the same as a map style but still it > seems important to have some objective goals and criteria for decisions > regarding presets, espec

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On Tuesday 19 June 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Perhaps it would make sense to treat the iD editor and the tagging > presets it uses as two different projects that are conceptually > separate enough so that the tagging presets as rolled out on osm.org > can be curated by a group that is separate

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 20/06/18 03:10, Christoph Hormann wrote: On Tuesday 19 June 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote: Perhaps it would make sense to treat the iD editor and the tagging presets it uses as two different projects that are conceptually separate enough so that the tagging presets as rolled out on osm.org can b

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

Sorry, everyone, but getting back to discussions re the proposed tag! On 19 June 2018 at 19:11, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > First step: Cheat as much as you can!!! > Find a wiki page you like and use that as your template. > > Then look around for other wiki pages .. if you likle som

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

On 19 June 2018 at 23:41, Tod Fitch wrote: > > FWIW, I volunteer on a back country ski patrol (winter rescue) and while > we have a building we use as our base of operations the areas we patrol are > very dependent on snow pack and where we notice people going to. Your > concept of lifeguard=area

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

20. Jun 2018 01:30 by graemefi...@gmail.com : > Is there a blank page template to copy - had a look but couldn't find one? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription#Usage

Re: [Tagging] emergency=lifeguard

2018-06-19 16:06 GMT+02:00 Bryan Housel : > > This is not the first time, and you have stated more than once your idea > of tag creation and endorsement is top down, with the software maintainer > deciding the tags on the input side, sweeping away the confusing plurality > of comunity created tags