Hi folks,
Here is the English translation of don-vip's answer to my last week message.
---
Hi François,
I'm glad to see someone be interested in that topic, and moreover a French
one.
I've actually built this proposition based upon the observation the power
tagging model isn't properly
2013/1/29 Ole Nielsen on-...@xs4all.nl
Thanks for making the contact with him.
You're welcome and I've contacted don-vip too.
He's the power generation refinement proposal author and maybe he would
accept to re-vote it.
He is bringing up some valid points (not that I agree to all of them).
Hi everyone,
Here is my discussion with aliponte, as suggested by Friedrich Volkmann
I've contacted him last week end.
I've asked him before if he minds copying it here.
==
Bonjour fanfouer,
aliponte http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/aliponte vous a envoyé un
message depuis OpenStreetMap avec
On 29/01/2013 21:00, François Lacombe wrote:
Hi everyone,
Here is my discussion with aliponte, as suggested by Friedrich Volkmann
I've contacted him last week end.
I've asked him before if he minds copying it here.
Thanks for making the contact with him. He is bringing up some valid
points
2013/1/26 François Lacombe francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
According to some previous explanations, power=station and power=sub_station
must be renamed since the sense isn't clear at all.
the sense in OSM is perfectly clear and defined in the osm wiki:
power=station describes a
Hi Martin,
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
the sense in OSM is perfectly clear and defined in the osm wiki:
power=station describes a substation for high voltage.
power=sub_station is a substation for transforming medium to low
voltage. This is also defined in the wiki.
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
2013/1/26 François Lacombe francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
-1, don't share this idea. IMHO a completely different substation
apperance and size, usage etc. are sufficient arguments to keep
different main entities (classes) in osm.
2013/1/27 François Lacombe francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
the sense in OSM is perfectly clear and defined in the osm wiki:
power=station describes a substation for high voltage.
power=sub_station is a substation for transforming
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
OK, but then they would have to map this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mamboman/448479749/
and this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rene-germany/5723334544/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zarner01/6899597110/
with the same tags. Why not
2013/1/27 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com:
The word substation says nothing about it's size, just like school or
church. Why should we invent new meanings for words?
As the word substation doesn't distinguish between those two: maybe
it is not a good choice for the tag? IMHO it feels like a
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
If you have a closer look you will find that
there are lots of different types for substations, e.g. transmission
substations, distribution substations, collector substations,
converter substations, switching substations, etc.
Voltage is
On 27/01/2013 17:15, Janko Mihelić wrote:
You also have to map these two with same tags, but mappers have no
problems with that:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3231/3612088299_4886057d1b_z.jpg
2013/1/27 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com
why using 2 tags if you can solve it with one ;-)
1 tag = 1 idea. Think versatile.
2013/1/27 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com
You also have to map these two with same tags, but mappers have no
problems with that:
I completely second these arguments: using power=substation whatever the
size of the substation, and storing other details in other tags.
In the wiki we could encourage mappers to no longer use power=station
(and power=sub_station if we decide to abandon it as well), that way
we'll slowly
On 25.01.2013 09:29, Ole Nielsen / osm wrote:
On 21.01.2013 01:54, François Lacombe wrote:
May someone answers that question
power=station is used for large, fenced areas where high voltage is
transformed to medium voltage. In German: Umspannwerk
power=sub_station is used for smaller
2013/1/26 Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at
The term substation is missing in my dictionary. To me, it seems to be a
technical term (covering large transformer stations as well as transformer
houses), while in common English one would rather choose the terms
transformer station/house. Maybe
On 21.01.2013 01:54, François Lacombe wrote:
May someone answers that question
power=station is used for large, fenced areas where high voltage is
transformed to medium voltage. In German: Umspannwerk
power=sub_station is used for smaller objects, like buildings with 2m each
side and a
Gentlemen,
The power=station's case seems to have been already treated in 2010.
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2010-January/001146.html
Moreover, a serious definition about station vs substation is available as
a reply of the wiki modification announce.
Hi Andreas,
2013/1/25 Andreas Labres l...@lab.at
Transformatorstationen (aka substation) look like this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformatorenstation
Umspannwerke (aka power station) look like this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Umspannwerk_01_KMJ.jpg
It's not that big a
2013/1/25 Andreas Labres l...@lab.at
There is a clear distinction between Hochspannung and Mittelspannung:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochspannung
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelspannungsnetz
That's german political clasification. Some germans sat down and decided
that in Germany,
2013/1/25 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com:
How did you come to the conclusion that power=station is Umspannwerk, and
power=sub_station is Transformatorenstation? There is no logical reason,
because power station is a power plant in English.
I'm a german native speaker, but nonetheless +1 . As
2013/1/25 François Lacombe francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
2013/1/25 Andreas Labres l...@lab.at
Transformatorstationen (aka substation) look like this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformatorenstation
Umspannwerke (aka power station) look like this:
The main problem is precisely the vocabulary used.
OSM tagging should respect current language, especillay when OSM terms
refers to totally different real life elements (plant taken for substation)
There's no distinguishing to make between big and small power substations
since they have the same
2013/1/25 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com
but I also see a problem with using power=sub_station for all now. I think
there
is a difference between big substations and the real small ones (tagged
with as
substations right now). Even if it is only a difference in voltage, we will
loose this
Am 25.01.2013 um 20:23 schrieb Ole Nielsen on-...@xs4all.nl:
It is a little bit sad that the proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_generation_refinement
died due to lack of votes. It would have resolved these problems. Maybe
somebody could review and
2013/1/25 Martin Vonwald (imagic) imagic@gmail.com
Am 25.01.2013 um 20:23 schrieb Ole Nielsen on-...@xs4all.nl:
It is a little bit sad that the proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_generation_refinementdied
due to lack of votes. It would have resolved
Hi.
I found that proposal, which was converted in RFC and finally accepted by
voting.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_generation_refinement#Single-site_facitilies
It's clearly written there's a spelling problem around substation vs sub
station.
In fact,
2013/1/24 François Lacombe francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu:
* Removing all the links to the keys' pages.
no, better explain why the values were deprecated and what the
currently proposed alternatives are. Do not remove the links while
there is still data in the db tagged in the old schema.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:40:05 François Lacombe wrote:
Ok, I agree with you about substation vs sub_station.
Consensus seems to emerge from this discussion, I would edit the wiki like
polderrunner explained.
* Deprecation (not removal) of power=station, power=substation (and all
other
That's what I asked for earlier today but:
- power=substation doesn't even exist.
- power=sub_station is widely used without any chance to get in confusion
with a submarine station.
I'm a little bit disapointed with such a topic.
If we had to create a brand new tag like power=substation, we
On 24/01/13 14:02, Andrew Errington wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:40:05 François Lacombe wrote:
Ok, I agree with you about substation vs sub_station.
Consensus seems to emerge from this discussion, I would edit the wiki like
polderrunner explained.
* Deprecation (not removal) of
On 24/01/2013 10:40, François Lacombe wrote:
Ok, I agree with you about substation vs sub_station.
Consensus seems to emerge from this discussion, I would edit the wiki
like polderrunner explained.
* Deprecation (not removal) of power=station, power=substation (and all
other values), message
On 21.01.2013 01:54, François Lacombe wrote:
May someone answers that question
power=station is used for large, fenced areas where high voltage is
transformed to medium voltage. In German: Umspannwerk
power=sub_station is used for smaller objects, like buildings with 2m each
side and a
On 22/01/2013 00:49, John Sturdy wrote:
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:33 PM, François Lacombe
francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu wrote:
So we have the same opinion so far, that's great!
And from me, to.
Just a question about the OSM sense of deprecated.
Why can't we directly display a big
Yes, power=station is starting to get deprecated status. If it were me, I
would deprecate it right away on the wiki. Problem is, it is still used
quite a lot.
Janko
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Ok.
But the current usage of a tag doesn't avoid its deprecation, do you?
It may be clearly written on the wiki page that power=station is from now
deprecated as for starting the swap to the power=sub_station value.
There will be a time were power networks would be overloaded with all those
On 21/01/2013 11:02, François Lacombe wrote:
But the current usage of a tag doesn't avoid its deprecation, do you?
It may be clearly written on the wiki page that power=station is from
now deprecated as for starting the swap to the power=sub_station value.
There will be a time were power
So we have the same opinion so far, that's great!
Just a question about the OSM sense of deprecated.
Why can't we directly display a big message on each never use this tag to
inform mappers that they would not use this key/value any more?
= May administrators could build a template?
For me,
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:33 PM, François Lacombe
francois.laco...@telecom-bretagne.eu wrote:
So we have the same opinion so far, that's great!
And from me, to.
Just a question about the OSM sense of deprecated.
Why can't we directly display a big message on each never use this tag to
inform
Hi.
By reading all the pages on that topic, I didn't manage to find out if the
tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dstation is still used or
not.
Moreover, I've got a 500 error page on taginfo so I can't check if there
are objects described with it currently.
May someone answers
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