On 23/08/15 00:12, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Only a lack of people willing to do the work.
A lack of people willing to do the work *and* host the style. We'll
happily include them if they meet the criteria you mention, but we're
not currently set up to serve multiple styles ourselves.
We might
I agree that blue is the logical color for mapping waterways, and should be
reserved for that purpose.
--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot
drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
On
On 2015-08-21 03:13, Colin Smale wrote:
While we are at it, what about specific symbols for train/metro stations
per operator? That is also a great landmark for map users.
I'd love to see that in the Transportation map. The difference with
highway shields is that the Standard style is already
W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a):
I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical
problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one
For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't
know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the
Purple motorways would be a problem in the Severn Estuary:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/51.5850/-2.6402
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl wrote:
W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a):
I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a
On 20/08/15 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
The design goal seems straight forward, to discontinue green and blue
for roads and move to red and reddish. For this to happen the decision
was made to shift current primary, secondary and tertiary colours
upwards so primary is now the colour
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:14, Richard Mann napisał(a):
Purple motorways would be a problem in the Severn Estuary:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/51.5850/-2.6402 [3]
Sure, but we have more space for changing the boundaries - for example
use more dashed lines or make them thinner on lower
On 22/08/15 11:10, Daniel Koć wrote:
I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical
problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one
For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't
know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:23, Lester Caine napisał(a):
The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web
services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those
services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every
site
actually using OSM over
W dniu 22.08.2015 12:34, Lester Caine napisał(a):
the motorway still stands out clearly against the water courses. The
So we just disagree here: for me it's just barely spottable, which is
far from clear difference, as you see it.
That more styles are required is a simple fact. The
On the topic of whether we can or should notify everyone who may
potentially be affected by this change so their opinions can be registered,
you may enjoy this read:
http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:
On 20.08.2015 10:09,
On 2015년 08월 22일 19:23, Lester Caine wrote:
The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web
services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that those
services are not too badly affected. We do not have a list of every site
actually using OSM over google,
On 20.08.2015 10:09, Christoph Hormann wrote
If you think a different styling than what is currently proposed would
be better it would be best to show it.
It's hardly fair to expect critics of the suggested new style to easily
come up with alternatives. For one, the effort in question was
On Sat, 2015-08-22 at 21:39 +0900, Max wrote:
On 2015년 08월 22일 19:23, Lester Caine wrote:
The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK
web
services, and any change needs to be managed in such a manor that
those
services are not too badly affected. We do not have a
W dniu 22.08.2015 14:21, Tom MacWright napisał(a):
On the topic of whether we can or should notify everyone who may
potentially be affected by this change so their opinions can be
registered, you may enjoy this read:
http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html [2]
Awesome! It's just about what I would
On 22/08/15 15:08, Philip Barnes wrote:
Why not keeping the UK style under openstreetmap.co.uk just like you
will find the german style under openstreetmap.de ?
It should be openstreetmap.org.uk.
We are not a commercial organisation.
.co.uk is registered, so the .uk one can be used going
Hi,
On 08/22/2015 02:12 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote:
But more importantly, it discounts all those voices who favour the
status quo. Personally, I think that the problems with the current style
are relatively minor, and don't automatically justify a drastic change.
But then again, the problems with
On 22/08/15 19:24, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web
services [...]
I agree that this is a problem. But not for the reasons
On 8/22/2015 4:20 AM, Daniel Koć wrote:
Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell
us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster
styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)?
Only a lack of people willing to do the work.
Hi,
On 08/23/2015 12:51 AM, Paul Norman wrote:
Could anybody with technical background in the inner OSM workings tell
us what is holding us back with introducing new styles (be it raster
styles, additional/interactive layers or even vector tiles)?
Only a lack of people willing to do the
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
The main problem here is that OSM is used by a large part of the UK web
services [...]
I agree that this is a problem. But not for the reasons you may think. The
OSM default tileset is *not* meant to be used as a
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
While we are at it, what about specific symbols for train/metro stations
per operator? That is also a great landmark for map users.
I'd settle for the transit map acknowledging that colour=* is a tag that
exists for
sent from a phone
Am 20.08.2015 um 11:59 schrieb Paweł Paprota ppa...@fastmail.fm:
What you are proposing is basically design by committee
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee) which is rampant
everywhere in OSM and kills innovation.
without advocating it, this can also
On Friday 21 August 2015, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
What you are proposing is basically design by committee
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee) which is
rampant everywhere in OSM and kills innovation.
without advocating it, this can also work. The building of the German
W dniu 20.08.2015 3:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson napisał(a):
Should this be a new, alternative style instead?
Looks like New Hope is coming to fix The Great Tertiary Problem ;-} :
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1736#issuecomment-133529853
However in my opinion more
I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical
problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one more shade of red to
the existing color-progression is probably achievable. Two seems to be
pushing it.
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl wrote:
W
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:
Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk writes:
Just what is the convention in the US, Russia or China?
Regarding the U.S., Paul and I describe the conventions here in detail:
While we are at it, what about specific symbols for train/metro stations
per operator? That is also a great landmark for map users.
On 2015-08-21 11:57, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:
Lester Caine lester at
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:16 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
wrote:
Should this be a new, alternative style instead?
IMHO for every user that likes the new scheme, you will find one that hates
it. And vice versa.
As someone that grew up with Falck and Michelin maps, it took a long
What you are proposing is basically design by committee
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee) which is rampant
everywhere in OSM and kills innovation. Everyone wants to pile on their
own cause - be it privacy (see the latest pull request on Github
regarding Gravatar for another
That discussion is only a waste of time because people hope that a
consensus will magically appear. The subject of the discussion is
absolutely something which deserves air-time. I am not talking about the
specific case of abandoned railways, but about who has the right to
decide what data has
I must admit I never really liked the scheme where motorways get the colour
of water... I also grew up with orange/yellow motorways on the map.
But I (try to) complain as little as possible. So I'm glad people are
trying to come up with a 'more international' way of rendering the map. If
that's
On 20/08/2015 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
According to the github discussion there is an overwhelming
consensus [2] on moving from current rainbow colour scheme for roads
to a red-yellow only scheme.
I don't think you'll ever get an overwhelming consensus from such a
large
I'm not proposing anything. Merely observing.
I am not the only one confused about which definition of overwhelming
consensus was used...
--colin
On 2015-08-20 11:59, Paweł Paprota wrote:
What you are proposing is basically design by committee
I'm happy to support a shades of red/yellow road system for the default
map.
The UK colours only really work at small scale with heavy casing (with
landuse eg forests muted). The green for trunk roads used for OS 1:50,000
is only recent, much darker than the green used for OSM, and a
Hi,
On 08/20/2015 03:16 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
Removing the colour from tertiary makes all mapping that much harder to
verify and quality check. Currently it is easy to see if a tertiary road
is broken with a white unclassified bridge, not so in the proposed Great
Colour Shift.
On 8/20/2015 9:32 AM, john whelan wrote:
As someone affected I wish to dissent therefore you do not have
consensus not every one consents.
Although not essential to the style discussion, I think it's important
to correct this point. Consensus is not unanimity.
to color the tertiary roads to show a good hierarchy of
roads in rural areas.
Pierre
De : Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
À : talk@openstreetmap.org
Envoyé le : Jeudi 20 août 2015 15h37
Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift
Þann 20.8.2015 18:36, skrifaði
On 20/08/15 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
The question really arises if this change is beneficial or not for the
project. Many hours have gone into it and doing CartoCSS on all these
zoom levels is not trivial. But this is a major shift on the front page
of our website, a blow to those
For me, the new style is a pointless exercise since I NEED to retain a
UK view of the data, and I am sure other countries would also prefer to
retain their own road colour preferences so trying to provide an
international style has a limited 'market'? If anything it simply drives
us to
Þann 20.8.2015 18:36, skrifaði Frederik Ramm:
Your use case of easily recognizable tertiary road in sparsely
populated regions is valid, but perhaps it is niche enough to
accept that it need to be served by the main map style.
I'm fairly certain that the rural regions of the world are not a
On 20/08/15 22:46, Minh Nguyen wrote:
- Shields are either reproduced in colors that match the signage, or
they're colored to match the road. So a map might end up with white-on-blue
Interstate shields, red-on-white U.S. route shields, and black-on-white
state route shields.
I would
Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org writes:
Along these lines, the standard style as it isn't too far off from what
Americans expect out of a motorist-oriented roadmap (though mapgeeks might
see it as a bit German by comparison to our maps). Surface streets tend
to be all the same color
On Thursday 20 August 2015, Jc3b3hannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
According to the github discussion there is an overwhelming
consensus [2] on moving from current rainbow colour scheme for roads
to a red-yellow only scheme.
Note this comment is mostly based on the early discussion of the matter,
I'm taking bets on whether this thread will have more replies than the
abandoned railroads (100+ and still going strong!) and win the prize
for the Biggest Waste of Time in OSM for 2015.
YES WE CAN('T)
Paweł
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015, at 03:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
For those that did not
As someone affected I wish to dissent therefore you do not have consensus
not every one consents.
Cheerio John
On 20 August 2015 at 12:26, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de wrote:
On Thursday 20 August 2015, Andy Townsend wrote:
On 20/08/2015 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
On 20/08/15 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
The question really arises if this change is beneficial or not for the
project. Many hours have gone into it and doing CartoCSS on all these
zoom levels is not trivial.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:09:35AM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:16 AM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson j...@betra.is
wrote:
Should this be a new, alternative style instead?
IMHO for every user that likes the new scheme, you will find one that hates
it. And vice versa.
On 20/08/2015 16:25, Ben Laenen wrote:
Thing is that UK won't ever be happy with another colour scheme and
the rest of the world won't ever be happy with a UK scheme.
... and then in the UK we can start arguing about and English style vs
a Scottish one and then a Yorkshire one vs Surrey :)
On Thursday 20 August 2015, Andy Townsend wrote:
On 20/08/2015 02:16, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
According to the github discussion there is an overwhelming
consensus [2] on moving from current rainbow colour scheme for
roads to a red-yellow only scheme.
I don't think you'll ever get
Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk writes:
Just what is the convention in the US, Russia or China?
Regarding the U.S., Paul and I describe the conventions here in detail:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2015-August/073892.html
But the short version is: real highway shields.
For those that did not check on Mateusz Konieczny diary entries[1],
postings to this mailing list and github discussions then the Proposed
Great Colour Shift might come as a surprise if it is implemented.
According to the github discussion there is an overwhelming consensus
[2] on moving from
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