e most likely explanation seems to be
that the quality of building detection and especially of building
geometry generation (if that is being done at all) is probably quite
bad and by not using the building data directly you can kind of
disguise such deficits.
--
Christop
really help the
original question from John. My answer to that would be: Yes,
automated methods can help to find unmapped settlements in OSM - less
though in actually mapping them.
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important but with organized efforts like this i can't help but get the
impression there is a certain amount of malice to sabotage or at least
an excessive amount of carelessness.
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From a purely technical point of view if it wasn't littering OSM this
would just be droll.
Verifiability my ass...
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e bezieht?
Gewässer-parallele Fahrwege sind ja insgesamt insbesondere auf und am
Fuße von Hochwasser-Deichen auch bei kleineren Flüssen recht weit
verbreitet.
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f the big lakes that is a few dozen MB of
download via overpass API and then a few seconds with osmium to
assemble the multipolygon. You can easily set this up to run on a
daily basis to check a few lakes you want to keep an eye on.
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) or magenta (ring not closed).
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ck of quality control for imports in OSM they are not even remotely
as damaging as would be the deliberate large scale addition of encoded
coordinates as tags to millions of features.
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up against these arguments except the
continued expression of the political desire to push this into the OSM
database despite all the arguments against it. Everyone is entitled to
their political views but i don't think the OSM database is a place
where these can
of the transit from expansion (where edits were
predominantly writing new documentation) to maintainance (with
predominantly changes of existing documentation).
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am afraid that even after reading it several times i have no idea what
you want to say with that.
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mming, data processing and
data maintainance that even after ignoring all the arguments in
substance that have been voiced this should be universally rejected if
for no other reason then because it would make OSM the laughing stock
of the whole geodata world.
--
Christoph Hormann
Side note: It would be a responsible thing to include a reminder like
what i wrote above with a message like the one i reply to here or in
the welcome messages/FAQs etc. of dedicated communication channels.
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__
nd Fußgänger sind
> nur geduldet. Deshalb auch mein Vorschlag zu dem permissive.
Das kannst Du genauso an highway=track taggen.
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ie eine Ufer-parallele Zufahrt
zu einem konkreten Objekt wie einem Wehr oder so.
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st sidewalks are fine and most Germans
> are sensible people.
Thanks, that is much appreciated.
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at saddens me is that those with constructive and reflective
commentary (Rihards and Kevin) get caught in the rage against
the "Senseless Germans".
Side note: I also have my doubts if Bryan's German colleagues at work
appreciate this kind of remark.
--
Christoph Hormann
h
ngsläufig ein Popularitäts-Wettbewerb daraus.
Also letztendlich entscheidet *Ihr* durch Euer Abstimmungs-Verhalten und
die Kriterien, die ihr dabei anlegt, was für eine Bedeutung diese
Preise haben.
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er geometrischen
Anordnung der Daten-Objekte und nicht aus deren Identitäten) reibt.
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this maybe talk to the Russians...
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t this will not necessarily be the case in all eternity and the idea
is floated to maybe even render more than one style this becomes a
relevant question.
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ns i would have for that behaviour is particularly flattering
is an understatement.
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mething like that in an actual renderer is of course
not a trivial task.
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the right development
model for an open map design project. This is about the almost
complete lack of competitive pressure to make sure whatever development
model is used it is challenged to deliver the best results (or be
abandoned because it is unable to do so) - which i
tionen mit anderen
Datenquellen, sondern auch jegliche nicht trivialen inhaltlichen
Modifikationen und Korrekturen, die sie intern durchführen. Ist aber
natürlich eine Menge Arbeit, sich da hinterher zu klemmen und sich dann
ggf. durch das zu wühlen, was man als Antwort bekommt.
--
Chri
waterway etc.
are things that could be hinted cautiously to the user to be possible
errors. From JOSM i only know the message that a value is not in
presets - which would catch these errors as well but which is not that
meaningful.
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Christoph Hormann
http://ww
e context of 'big data', and how
this relates to the ODbL. It seems to me opinions on this are too much
based on wishful thinking and too little aim to form a consistent
framework that supports desirable and harmless use cases but does not
create loopholes against the spirit of the license.
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if you mask the data early in a more elaborate
process and do further processing afterwards based on a data set that
is an inseparable combination of both data sources the situation is not
that clear.
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le
the legal issues.
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ames.
Otherwise people will inevitably add tons of non-verifiable
transliterated names in a misguided attempt improve the map.
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in the OSM wiki.
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default name to use is the name:en name.
I think that someone was me. :-)
Details on:
http://blog.imagico.de/you-name-it-on-representing-geographic-diversity-in-names/
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in cases where mappers do not react to attempts at communication at
all this is a general problem not specific to organized/directed
editing activities.
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in cases where mappers do not react to attempts at communication at
all this is a general problem not specific to organized/directed
editing activities.
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rum on
that - after all we do not even have a German language channel with
global scope which might have been a better place for that.
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rum on
that - after all we do not even have a German language channel with
global scope which might have been a better place for that.
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not want this to continue in their domain and how to best
accompish that would be a good subject of discussion.
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not want this to continue in their domain and how to best
accompish that would be a good subject of discussion.
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side the EU can still publish their regional
> extracts with metadata publicly.
Well - that is obviously a question you need to get qualified local
legal advise on. Same as if you can publicly distribute a copy of
.
--
Christoph Hormann
htt
gal obligations that seems something that can be
reasonably dealt with.
The terminology used in the position paper however seems to point into a
somewhat different direction (i.e. that providing bulk metadata would
be subject to a specific contractual agreement).
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reement. In addition it might
be a good idea (i think i suggested this already in the past) to
provide an anonymous OAuth service - where the application using it
gets confirmation that the user is logged in as an registered OSM user
but which does not provide any information on this user's id
ichert aka Nakaner
> > nach Diskussion und im Namen der deutschen OpenStreetMap-Community
> > im deutschen OSM-Forum und auf der Mailingliste Talk-de
Auch da solltest Du denke ich ein bisschen vorsichtig sein - Du gibst
hier maximal die Me
e Möglichkeiten konstruktiv zu
nutzen liegt aber vor allem auch an Euch.
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ols and development goals) is generally
superior for innovation and progress in general compared to trying to
be universally inclusive w.r.t. feature and design ideas or
communication and cooperation styles within projects.
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___
On Friday 23 February 2018, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> Wenn jetzt dort historic=fort (knapp 3000 Verwendungen) gerendert
> wird, historic=castle mit >37k Verwendungen und einem etablierten,
> recht gut nach kulturellen und architektonischen Kriterien
> definierten und auch verb
es selbst - oft mit recht
bescheidenen Ergebnissen (Beipiele: tourism=artwork,
amenity=ferry_terminal)
Symbol-Design ist letztendlich halt eine enorm schwierige Aufgabe.
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strakten Symbolen für von Menschen gemachte Dinge
immer im Auge behalten, dass das was in einem Teil der Welt ein
anschauliches repräsentatives Beispiel darstellt anderswo auf der Welt
recht wenig intuitiv oder gar irreführend sein kann.
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nicht
wirklich ein.
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so ein Klischee-Burg-Symbol irreführend und wie schon angedeutet
hinsichtlich Mapper-Feedback ziemlich kontraproduktiv (und daneben
gerade für einen internationalen Stil im Grunde auch etwas peinlich).
--
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___
T
ter area. This is hampered by the problem that we mostly have no
consistent distinction between river and lake areas in OSM (i.e.
standing and flowing water areas).
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stion
probably is if this is something editors should provide support to
produce automatically or if it is something that data users should
generate automatically as needed.
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s ago:
>
> http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html
Have you tried running OSMCoastline on that planet? Might be tricky but
would significantly improve the realism of the historic image.
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ermediate
data you might get separate raster maps for the OSM roads and the
Google roads.
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escribed in explicit form (like linestring or polygon) or implicit
form (like distance function)?
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enging - but that is just a minor hurdle.
Note from a business perspective as a data user i would not really mind
if the above scenario was acceptable but as said it would practically
mean the end of share-alike for map rendering applications - and that
is likely not what the mappers who voted
. But on the other hand you
could argue (as you already did in your mail) that once you use a
produced work in a database-like fashion it becomes a derivative
database again - the same way as if you trace features from a rendered
OSM map.
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is the perfect trial balloon to test how far you can go.
And if Oxford University gets screwed over this that is not their
problem. If not and this kind of data combination becomes widely
accepted this would OTOH open the door for a lot of applications that
would depend on circumventing share-alike.
--
. But
you could probably also look at it differently. I would like to hear
opinions on this. In particular if you think that is legally possible
without share alike how this interpretation looks like.
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das durch die Straßenverläufe
offensichtlich.
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eetmap.org/#map=15/32.0846/35.5327
Für die Mapping-Praxis würd ich sagen: Wenn da Grenzsteine sind und der
Grenzverlauf in OSM entspricht diesen weitgehend dann kann und sollte
man das separat mappen. Ansonsten kann man das getrost mit einer
Geometrie erfassen.
--
Christoph Hormann
htt
s/2270
While i agree with you that from my perspective a style direction or
design paradigm is needed for successful development i try to be open
to the possibility that it is not. How to attract contributors in such
a framework is not something i can provide a competent o
ks for the links.
I stand by my critique of how the OSM community is engrossed in how this
is presented by HOT and also by my assessment of the decision making
processes being intransparent (the validity of which has no bearing on
the main point of critique though).
--
Christoph Hormann
http:
that are unclear and subjective but you should not
present this as if this financing is somehow integrated into and
supervised by the OSM community.
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r natürlich ein
politisches Statement.
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said before: *do not mix rendering and tagging discussions*.
[1]https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md
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then drop arguing for certain tagging
ideas based on your perceived needs for rendering. Tagging decisions
should be based on how mappers can best document their knowledge about
the geography. Not on what some developers find convenient for
rendering.
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_
grounds.
* the school consists of a number of rooms in a building but not the
whole building.
* there are multiple schools using the same infrastructure together.
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also be translated
as unregenerate.
My attempt at a translation of the German text would be:
"Yuri is perceived by many in this discussion, in a similar way as in
previous discussions, as unreasonable/unregenerate and questions the
relevancy of the unwritten rules of OSM."
--
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just my personal interpretation of the policy of course - others
might see this differently.
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urnover in people is much faster in OSM than in science
(see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Active_contributors_year.png).
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pt at something created the
impulse for a better and successful solution.
(Changed the subject because this of course does not have much to do
with the original subject of this thread - still i think this is an
important topic to discuss)
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Christoph Hormann
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___
the way they perceive it, including the intensity and extent of
the displeasure felt by those in the discussion, you are going to do
more damage to the OSM community than either Yuri or anyone maybe going
on occasion a bit overboard with their choice of words in the
discussion.
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the message...
I sincerely hope the weeklyOSM team ignores such advise. No one really
wants a shallow, politically whitewashed verbal ornamentation of the
links carefully vetted not to hurt anyone that could be generated by a
bot (yes, there is some irony in that).
--
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a does not work with any of these other,
more fitting terms - sorry. ;-)
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y already summarized the main points of this
discussion (in which the reaction was generally positive) to the OSMF
board.
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you have developed based on that assumption.
https://xkcd.com/386/ is something something most of us have stopped
doing relatively soon after we discovered the internet...
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t
d developing an intuitive understanding of the
unwritten rules.
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its because
they are only applied to features that are (manually) edited otherwise.
Applying the same 'fixes' mechanically to all features with a certain
tag however is a mechanical edit and needs to be discussed on a
per-case basis - always, no matter how trivial, useful or obvious they
mi
//tasks-stage.hotosm.org/
Looks like a big step in the right direction, thanks.
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s for OSM as a
whole. I am not claiming this is easy to determine but it should be
the benchmark to apply - which is what i am suggesting everyone to do
here.
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r benefit for OSM and the OSM
community beyond the wiki itself.
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nstreetmap.org/relation/3374767?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1882099475?
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eute,
jedoch meist nicht mehr außerhalb historischer Betrachtungen verwendet
werden, gehen in old_name:de.
"Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee" und so was dürften im Allgemeinen wohl in
die zweite Kategorie fallen.
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Note this is a completely subjective impression of me and in no way
meant to imply being representative for any group of people.
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dding at least brief verbal credits to OSM - for example like
Frederik cited from Missing Maps - to the starting page somewhere.
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way - although this is of course a question i did contemplate.
It would be nice to see you doing me the same courtesy by arguing the
topic at hand without insinuating "an argumentative
pose", "distrust", "Combative questions" or a lack of respect.
--
C
reetMap and HOT
and how they relate to the visitor. learnosm.org (which i think is
also mainly built by HOT) shows this is possible to do.
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; always happens via HOT tasks.
In my eyes this is a fairly clear misrepresentation of OpenStreetMap not
covered by the trademark policy we now have.
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s were achieved with scanaerial seem to be
using relatively low resolution images processed at a much higher
resolution - like here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/68.8084/160.9188
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d is just wasteful).
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t a fully scripted solution and not something interactive.
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different in that regard.
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edits
and want to explore the possibilities of these but who feel the
attitude and approach of Yuri Astrakhan is inconsiderate,
non-constructive and damaging. I would wish more of them would speak
up here but i also understand if they do not want to "pour oil into the
fire" so
d to participate in it,
> rather than being productive and beneficial to everyone involved.
I rest my case.
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which
is likely because you don't get how OpenStreetMap is working overall.
I would strongly advise you to reconsider your whole approach to
OpenStreetMap and to interacting with the OpenStreetMap community.
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accounts being blocked.
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waterways in imports where this
was not properly set based on the feature codes.
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t with the dense network of NHD
geometries with a lot of cryptic tags and all flatly tagged as
waterway=stream it is quite hard for mappers to identify the larger
rivers and improve mapping there. Like here (NHD import on the left,
newer manual mapping on the right):
https://www.openstreetmap.o
.
>
> To my knowledge nothing automatic of this kind exists so far, so
> there should be only a few manual edits of this kind.
Yesterday i showed examples of systematic node and name tag additions to
OSM clearly sourced from Wikidata. It is clear that this is happeni
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