Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
I assume that that way (powerline) was downloaded because it also has nodes in the area you downloaded. JOSM will never complain about objects that are not downloaded. Powerline ways tend to be long, so the warning can easily be in another state, that is true. Furthermore, I thought that it is not allowed to have nodes in a powerline that do not have tags. So the suggestion to fix it, is a valid one. And it is not because JOSM warns about nodes without tags in a powerline, that it allows you to solve that problem by clicking a magical "Solve" button. You still have to add the tags yourself. There is a magical "Solve" button in JOSM, but its capabilities are limited (e.g. removing vehicle=yes on highway=residential and the like), or merging 2 nodes that are lying on top of one another (at least when the nodes have no tags). regards m. On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:14 PM Clifford Snow wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:53 AM Dave F via talk > wrote: >> >> I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. >> I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit >> ability? >> > Yes - JOSM does allow mass fixes through the validator. I've even seen > suggestions to fix objects on ways that are outside of the downloaded area. > For example, missing power poles on power lines. I don't "fix" those because > the validator is just looking at a node without a power pole. Often their > isn't a pole at that location according to the imagery. > > Best, > Clifford > > -- > @osm_washington > www.snowandsnow.us > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:53 AM Dave F via talk wrote: > I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. > I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit > ability? > > Yes - JOSM does allow mass fixes through the validator. I've even seen suggestions to fix objects on ways that are outside of the downloaded area. For example, missing power poles on power lines. I don't "fix" those because the validator is just looking at a node without a power pole. Often their isn't a pole at that location according to the imagery. Best, Clifford -- @osm_washington www.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
Oh Good Lord, that's dangerous. 'Everywhere' in the 'Where' option accumulates more warnings (1000+) as you pan around Even JOSM doesn't go that far. DaveF On 28/05/2019 19:17, Markus wrote: On Tue, 28 May 2019 at 19:56, Dave F via talk wrote: I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit ability? Yes, in the issues pane on the right side there are options to check "Everything" and to "Fix All". "Fix All" automatically does changes without informing you. In a densely populated area it's easy to change 200+ elements with just one mouse click. As i wrote in the other thread (Re: Remove validation rule asking to add highway=footway to railway/public_transport=platform) this violates the Automated Edits code of conduct. Regards Markus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
Hi, Am 28.05.19 um 20:28 schrieb Simon Poole: > The times in the changeset do not reflect the length of the associated > editing session except if the changeset was opened on purpose at the > beginning which IMHO no editor does. A better method to guess the length of the editing session is to look when the previous changeset was uploaded. (It assumes that the human editing OSM does not have to open editing sessions in parallel) Best regards Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
The times in the changeset do not reflect the length of the associated editing session except if the changeset was opened on purpose at the beginning which IMHO no editor does. Am 28. Mai 2019 19:53:22 MESZ schrieb Dave F via talk : >I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. >I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass >edit >ability? > > I don't see asking users to split the changesets as a solution to >what is the clear problem of mass adding/amending tags to >unknown/undocumented ones. > >DaveF > > >On 28/05/2019 16:13, Jmapb wrote: >> See yesterday's changesets: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676813 ( >> https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676813 ) >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676888 ( >> https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676888 ) >> >> I believe this is just a casual user browsing around in iD and making >> the suggested changes it advises -- to about 1000 objects. These >giant >> changesets are nearly impossible to review. My fear here is that iD's >> new validator will make QA extremely challenging in dense areas. >> >> Scrolling through the tag additions, these changesets look almost >> identical to the behavior of a bot... or rather like 6 or 7 bots >> operating at once. If they *had* been made by a bot that was >following >> the mechanical edit guidelines, they could be comprehended and >reviewed. >> But the various tagging changes are all mixed up together in a single >> changeset, along with whatever the mapper reidpelton's *actual* >changes >> were -- if any. >> >> So how do I even begin to do QA on this? I don't see any options >other >> than 1) mass-revert or 2) skip review of all large changesets that >> appear to be triggered by iD validation. Any other suggestions? >> >> Jason >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail gesendet.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
On Tue, 2019-05-28 at 20:00 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Di., 28. Mai 2019 um 19:56 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < > talk@openstreetmap.org>: > > I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds > > respectively. > > > > I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass > > edit > > > > ability? > > > > > > > >I don't see asking users to split the changesets as a solution > > to > > > > what is the clear problem of mass adding/amending tags to > > > > unknown/undocumented ones. > > > > indeed, I see no way to judge whether the iD suggestion to change > objects from crossing=zebra to crossing=marked makes sense, because > there is no documentation of crossing=marked. Going by the words, > probably any zebra crossing can be seen as a marked crossing so it > may not be introducing errors, just reducing specificity/detail. > Just had a play with iD in my local High Street. First edit was a minor one to tidy up a spurious line, iD made no attempt to change any other objects. Second edit was to add a tactile paving tag to one of the zebra crossings, it warned me that a marked crossing has outdated tags and wanted to loose valuable information. which I declined but it is easy to see how an inexperienced mapper could be coerced into making such a change. As you say marked is undocumented, and zebra is documented. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
Just out of idle curiosity, do we know of any data consumers that understand crossing=marked? -- Andrew From: Martin Koppenhoefer Sent: 28 May 2019 19:00 To: Dave F Cc: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC Am Di., 28. Mai 2019 um 19:56 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>>: I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit ability? I don't see asking users to split the changesets as a solution to what is the clear problem of mass adding/amending tags to unknown/undocumented ones. indeed, I see no way to judge whether the iD suggestion to change objects from crossing=zebra to crossing=marked makes sense, because there is no documentation of crossing=marked. Going by the words, probably any zebra crossing can be seen as a marked crossing so it may not be introducing errors, just reducing specificity/detail. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
Am Di., 28. Mai 2019 um 19:56 Uhr schrieb Dave F via talk < talk@openstreetmap.org>: > I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. > I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit > ability? > >I don't see asking users to split the changesets as a solution to > what is the clear problem of mass adding/amending tags to > unknown/undocumented ones. indeed, I see no way to judge whether the iD suggestion to change objects from crossing=zebra to crossing=marked makes sense, because there is no documentation of crossing=marked. Going by the words, probably any zebra crossing can be seen as a marked crossing so it may not be introducing errors, just reducing specificity/detail. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively. I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit ability? I don't see asking users to split the changesets as a solution to what is the clear problem of mass adding/amending tags to unknown/undocumented ones. DaveF On 28/05/2019 16:13, Jmapb wrote: See yesterday's changesets: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676813 ( https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676813 ) https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676888 ( https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676888 ) I believe this is just a casual user browsing around in iD and making the suggested changes it advises -- to about 1000 objects. These giant changesets are nearly impossible to review. My fear here is that iD's new validator will make QA extremely challenging in dense areas. Scrolling through the tag additions, these changesets look almost identical to the behavior of a bot... or rather like 6 or 7 bots operating at once. If they *had* been made by a bot that was following the mechanical edit guidelines, they could be comprehended and reviewed. But the various tagging changes are all mixed up together in a single changeset, along with whatever the mapper reidpelton's *actual* changes were -- if any. So how do I even begin to do QA on this? I don't see any options other than 1) mass-revert or 2) skip review of all large changesets that appear to be triggered by iD validation. Any other suggestions? Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
On 5/28/2019 12:25 PM, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 28 May 2019, 17:13 by jm...@gmx.com: Any other suggestions? Suggest user to split edits into smaller chunks. Yes that would be far preferable, and I did message this user. That doesn't address the immediate question of how to attempt QA on these two changesets. And the larger problem of other users making similar changesets, in this city and thousands of other densely mapped places on the planet, is still looming. I can (and do) plead with people to keep changesets small, but the nature of the process has changed. Before, a casual making hundreds of changes in a single changeset was pretty rare, because they'd actually have to *make* hundreds of changes. Now they just have to agree to them -- and as far as they can tell they're being asked to do so by OSM itself, so it's highly likely they will. (And sidebar -- I like the idea of the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice page including some advice about keeping changsets to a manageable size -- both number of changes and geographic area. Something to point to when trying to make the case for smaller changesets.) J ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
28 May 2019, 17:13 by jm...@gmx.com: > Any other suggestions? > Suggest user to split edits into smaller chunks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
Am 28. Mai 2019 17:44:25 MESZ schrieb Simon Poole : >1st thing to do is to ask the napper to slow ... mapper :-) -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail gesendet. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
1st thing to do is to ask the napper to slow down in a change set comment. Am 28. Mai 2019 17:13:49 MESZ schrieb Jmapb : >See yesterday's changesets: > >https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676813 ( >https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676813 ) >https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676888 ( >https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676888 ) > >I believe this is just a casual user browsing around in iD and making >the suggested changes it advises -- to about 1000 objects. These giant >changesets are nearly impossible to review. My fear here is that iD's >new validator will make QA extremely challenging in dense areas. > >Scrolling through the tag additions, these changesets look almost >identical to the behavior of a bot... or rather like 6 or 7 bots >operating at once. If they *had* been made by a bot that was following >the mechanical edit guidelines, they could be comprehended and >reviewed. >But the various tagging changes are all mixed up together in a single >changeset, along with whatever the mapper reidpelton's *actual* changes >were -- if any. > >So how do I even begin to do QA on this? I don't see any options other >than 1) mass-revert or 2) skip review of all large changesets that >appear to be triggered by iD validation. Any other suggestions? > >Jason > > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit Kaiten Mail gesendet.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC
See yesterday's changesets: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676813 ( https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676813 ) https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70676888 ( https://nrenner.github.io/achavi/?changeset=70676888 ) I believe this is just a casual user browsing around in iD and making the suggested changes it advises -- to about 1000 objects. These giant changesets are nearly impossible to review. My fear here is that iD's new validator will make QA extremely challenging in dense areas. Scrolling through the tag additions, these changesets look almost identical to the behavior of a bot... or rather like 6 or 7 bots operating at once. If they *had* been made by a bot that was following the mechanical edit guidelines, they could be comprehended and reviewed. But the various tagging changes are all mixed up together in a single changeset, along with whatever the mapper reidpelton's *actual* changes were -- if any. So how do I even begin to do QA on this? I don't see any options other than 1) mass-revert or 2) skip review of all large changesets that appear to be triggered by iD validation. Any other suggestions? Jason ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
