Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
Nov 16, 2023, 21:02 by marc_m...@mailo.com: > > Le 16.11.23 à 13:35, Mateusz Konieczny via talk a écrit : > >> Similarly with other that are expected attributes of viewpoints. >> > > Which others ? > source, direction, created_by, layer, ele, wheelchair, opening_hours, area ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
Nov 16, 2023, 20:51 by talk@openstreetmap.org: > In practice MR tasks are human-executed bit edits with no actual > review happening (they could be useful where correct solution > needs to be selected from some available, but here it would just wait > until someone would manually but still robotically remove > all name tags) > To clarify: - not all people active on MR skip verification or make bad edits, some are making fine edits - but there is enough of people doing edits without verification in case of tasks having single possible edit action (or not doing edit), to make MR useless for cases where verification is needed (especially with "press to edit" mode being activated) As there is high risk of such person appearing and making edits blindly - MR may be useful for cases where elements needs to be edited in multiple ways and decision needs to be taken before edit, though there were also many cases of bad editing here But it in general filters out people clicking "make edit" on repeat without any verification - MR is utterly pointless for cases where local knowledge would be needed and aerial imagery + already present tags are not sufficient for verification - MR has many edits that are actually undiscussed bot edits, just done manually by humans (still without actual review, some tasks are not even having fig-leaf request of human needing to review anything), done in violation of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct - some MR tasks are undiscussed imports, breaking https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines - reporting challenges exists, but reports are not acted on by people maintaining MR ( even ones where people running bad challenges voluntarily closed them - still remain open at https://github.com/maproulette/challenge-reports/issues ) --- Suggesting MR as way to verify objects before edit is pointless. If actual verification is needed before edits that would be done always or almost always in the same way, then MR is pointless for that and should not be suggested as a solution. If multiple types of edits can be done, depending on a case or someone has bot edit approval (but is unable to mass edit via script or JOSM or other tool) then it is a viable MR task. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
Nov 16, 2023, 21:02 by marc_m...@mailo.com: > Hello, > > Le 16.11.23 à 13:35, Mateusz Konieczny via talk a écrit : > >> this relies on assumption that object tagged like >> - tourism=viewpoint >> - name=Viewpoint >> is always case of misusing name tag. >> > > how could anyone possibly know that this generic name is the real name? > Not entirely sure what you mean here? That you are confused why someone would tag it? Or that it could be plausibly valid name? (for me it is 100% clear that it cannot be real name, like natural=tree name=Tree is clearly invalid one) > I don't know of any cases for a point of view, but it seemed to me that the > wiki mentioned such a case, but I can't find it. > >> Similarly with other that are expected attributes of viewpoints. >> > > Which others ? > Good point, I will share listing when I will be back at home and some spare hobby time >> Comments welcome >> > > please run previously approved ones (like surface=*) before asking more edits. > good news here! this edit is treated as approved, and was added to bot edit schedule it runs right now, see https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny%20-%20bot%20account/history(note, link may obviously show other edits in future as it goes to simply listing of latest edits made from that account) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
Hello, Le 16.11.23 à 13:35, Mateusz Konieczny via talk a écrit : this relies on assumption that object tagged like - tourism=viewpoint - name=Viewpoint is always case of misusing name tag. how could anyone possibly know that this generic name is the real name? I don't know of any cases for a point of view, but it seemed to me that the wiki mentioned such a case, but I can't find it. Similarly with other that are expected attributes of viewpoints. Which others ? Comments welcome please run previously approved ones (like surface=*) before asking more edits. Regards, Marc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
Nov 16, 2023, 20:01 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: > On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 12:35, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > >> invalid name tag that repeats object type, and it is obvious enough that can >> be fixed remotely. >> >> "Viewpoint, entry 5 euro" >> >> "Viewpoint, no wheelchair access". >> > > Such names should not be removed until the additional data has been > transferred to a more suitable tag. > I agree. Such names will NOT be removed in this bot edit. Only name=viewpoint, name=Viewpoint and name=VIEWPOINT would be, and only on objects tagged solely as viewpoints and not as other object types. >> Note that this relies on assumption that object tagged like >> >> - tourism=viewpoint >> - name=Viewpoint >> >> is always case of misusing name tag. >> > > I dispute that that is always the case. > Can you give example of situation where viewpoint is named "Viewpoint"? Or toilet named "Toilet"? (note filtering described by me, not all names from viewpoints will be removed, names on objects tagged as not only viewpoints will not be touched either) >> - tourism=viewpoint >> - fee=yes >> - name=VIEWPOINT >> >> would be edited. >> > > Again, not 100% reliable. > > > Overall I think this would be best made into some sort of gamified > challenge, like MapRoulette, where each case can be reviewed > individually. > how MR would help here? How someone would review object with tourism=viewpoint name=Viewpoint tags? In practice MR tasks are human-executed bit edits with no actual review happening (they could be useful where correct solution needs to be selected from some available, but here it would just wait until someone would manually but still robotically remove all name tags) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 12:35, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > invalid name tag that repeats object type, and it is obvious enough that can > be fixed remotely. > "Viewpoint, entry 5 euro" > "Viewpoint, no wheelchair access". Such names should not be removed until the additional data has been transferred to a more suitable tag. > Note that this relies on assumption that object tagged like > > - tourism=viewpoint > - name=Viewpoint > > is always case of misusing name tag. I dispute that that is always the case. > - tourism=viewpoint > - fee=yes > - name=VIEWPOINT > > would be edited. Again, not 100% reliable. Overall I think this would be best made into some sort of gamified challenge, like MapRoulette, where each case can be reviewed individually. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Automatically remove obvious descriptive names for viewpoints (obvious cases only, not all suspect objects)
note: this was posted already at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/automatically-remove-obvious-descriptive-names-for-viewpoints-obvious-cases-only-not-all-suspect-objects/105892if you have seen that then rest of the post has no new content posting also here as required by https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct - There are object types where mappers relatively often add invalid name tag that repeats object type, and it is obvious enough that can be fixed remotely. I was doing it with some objects, and in some cases it is often combined with very problematic tagging nearby (can link some queries if anyone wants). But for some objects use of obvious descriptive names is quite popular, to the point that manual fixing cannot keep up AND it is possible to fix it with a bot edit AND other tagging is typically fine. Sometimes there are clusters of other objects with descriptive names, but these can be found independently. And yes "Viewpoint" can be signed but it does not make it a name, like "Viewpoint, entry 5 euro" is not a name either. Or "Viewpoint, no wheelchair access". Note https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/is-name-toilet-even-theorethically-valid-for-amenity-toilets/105540 where it was discussed I propose to run automated cleanup for viewpoints. It would remove name=viewpoint (and name=Viewpoint and name=VIEWPOINT) from objects tagged only as viewpoints. Note that this relies on assumption that object tagged like - tourism=viewpoint - name=Viewpoint is always case of misusing name tag. Objects which carry unexpected tags or tags not typical for viewpoints, or note/fixme tags will be skipped. So for example - tourism=viewpoint - amenity=restaurant - name=Viewpoint well not be touched. In theoretical case of restaurant named "Viewpoint" which is also viewpoint, such object will not be modified at all. So - tourism=viewpoint - waterway=waterfall - name=Viewpoint or - tourism=viewpoint - name=Viewpoint - note=Actually named "Viewpoint" would not be edited either. (Though I do not expect last case to be ever validly tagged...) Obviously objects with just name=Viewpoint would not be edited in this edit. - tourism=viewpoint - fee=yes - name=VIEWPOINT would be edited. Similarly with other that are expected attributes of viewpoints. Bot edit would be worldwide, with edits split in parts. Edits would be repeated in future. Comments welcome - both if you see problems with this edit and if you support it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
