On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| Would you guys take this conversation off the list please?
| Its heavy enough without your personal comments.
Aren't there room for any fun?! This is the most rewarding and interesting
thread in a while, in my opinion..! :)
;)
Endre
--
Would you guys take this conversation off the list please?
Its heavy enough without your personal comments.
regards DaveP
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re
Real programmers only need 2 buttons: 0 and 1
> -Original Message-
> From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:14 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
Users List
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things to
ever happen to mankind
i program in ones and zeroes only!! :D
0110110101110111011101010110111101101111011011110010
0001001000100110100100100110010001100010011000
i program in ones and zeroes only!! :D
01101101011101110111010101101111011011110110111100110010001001101001001001100100011000100111011011000110111001101101000100100111011100100110011001110111001001110110110101101101011
orth your weight, you can just write it all in
hex, and with dipswitches. DEATH TO ALL KEYBOARD USERS!!!
Daniel
> -Original Message-
> From: SH Solutions [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:36 AM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: I
Daniel
> -Original Message-
> From: Ivan Jouikov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:44 AM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the
> worst things to ever happen
>
Ivan Jouikov wrote, On 7/4/2004 1:04 PM:
1. JSTL and EL are inefficient. Tests on similar pages clearly showed
that. (compare - ${name} with <%=name%>, run in a loop 1 times,
youÐ-?ll see the difference)
Sure it will be slower, it is really java classes under the hood trying to
hide comp
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:40:54 -0700
"Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
> ...
> > A tool is a tool. Rather than declare that a tool is worse than useless,
> > it probably would be more effective to explain why you couldn't use it
> > this time. It's a little easier that way to talk about what c
Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:19 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst
things
to ever happen to mankind
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:03:45 -0700
"Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
...
Point of this message: DO
My replies below
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:40 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankind
>
> Hello
My replies below
> -Original Message-
> From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:24 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankind
>
> On Mon, 5 Ju
It just pops in my mind that perhaps doing things faster and with less
people the second time around is only natural? Everyone tends to learn
from the mistakes or at least figure out what could have been done
better. Experience usually does that to you :P
Anyway, I think that every tool has its pl
Hello -
I think I was unclear in what I meant. I am not talking about
presentation of code, (hell assembler can be presented well!) what I
mean is that using JSTL and EL forces you to abstract yourself from the
business tier as you have restricted ability to handle the data. By
using embedded J
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 1:49 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankind
>
> Hello, it seems I ha
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 00:55:17 -0700
(B"Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(B
(B> My replies below
(B>
(B> > -Original Message-
(B> > From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(B> > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:19 PM
(B> > To: Tomcat Users List
(B> > Subject: Re: I've officially dec
Hello, it seems I have missed a good conversation! Now for my two
pence/cents:
>4. EL encourages sloppy syntax. It doesnât even have data types
> (well it has on the bottom level, but not on the surface).
>Remember JavaScript? Did you know that at first, it was supposed
>
My replies below
> -Original Message-
> From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:19 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankind
>
> On Sat, 3 Ju
> 1) Yes <%=%> was 10 times as fast. But Anything of simple complexity like
> using a model object request <%=%> to get ugly real fast with many getters
> and explict casts. There is a massive tradeoff in simplicity when you have
> the following:
> ${myObect.myGetter.aValue}
Ahh must I rep
See below for my replies
>
> > What should we use instead? Welcome to the front page of JSP
> manual:
> >
> > <% if( yourmoma ) { %>
> > Do some things
> > <% } %>
> >
> > To me, it seems EASIER than this:
> >
> >
> >
> > Do some things
> >
> ... Believe me, it dies whatever C does just
Heh.
> as good, and better.)
> ...
-
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On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:03:45 -0700
(B"Ivan Jouikov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
(B
(B> ...
(B> Point of this message: DO NOT USE JSTL OR EL. You$Bc`QM(Bl regret it. I did.
(B
(BIf a tool doesn't work for you, don't use it.
(B
(BThere are plenty of tools. We all make mistakes. No reason to
Nice troll.
1) Yes <%=%> was 10 times as fast. But Anything of simple complexity like
using a model object request <%=%> to get ugly real fast with many getters
and explict casts. There is a massive tradeoff in simplicity when you have
the following:
${myObect.myGetter.aValue}
2) I get massive
This is like a painter blaming the paint because he cannot create as well as
Rembrandt. Pick a language, any language. Now it's your job to make
software that works with it. Nobody's going to buy the argument that you're
a victim of the tools.
On Sunday 04 July 2004 12:41 pm, Ivan Jouikov
Ivan,
Points well taken, you have very strong position, I enjoy this dialog. Sorry
if I misinterpreted them in your earlier email. I think I see where we both
disagree and it's mainly what JSTL and EL are good for.
You don't feel this argument holds? When you have a poor little tomcat
running
Read my comments below:
> -Original Message-
> From: Ariel Valentin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:20 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
> to ever happen to mankin
EH... what about eclipse? What about JBuilder? What about netBeans? All of them are
written mostly in Java, except for some native driver code. And they work just fine
for me.
-Original Message-
From: Eric VERGNAUD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:57 AM
To: To
point.
-Original Message-
From: Laurence Arabia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things to ever
happen
>Hi
>
> > After getting convinced to try JS
ructs
I'd switch from C++ to C in a flash.
-Original Message-
From: SH Solutions [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 2:36 AM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things to ever
happen to man
I am new to this mailing list but I figured I would throw in my two cents:
(Please excuse my e-mail provider it interpreted the characters from Ivan's
original message in some strange way)
Needless to say I was a bit concerned about a few comments...
After getting convinced to try JSTL, I learned
> I am inclined to agree but not for the same blanket reasons. I have worked
> on 2 very large C++ projects 30+ developers. And I did with another company
> the same thing with C and Java with 7 people in 1/4 the time. I have never
> touched C++ since. Why if you realise you made a design booboo (A
Hi
> After getting convinced to try JSTL, I learned the following things:
..
Having read points 1-6, I thought, there must be a truth in your remarks.
(I did'nt use JSTL or EL yet, but I am about to try.)
But then I got to:
> Why was C++ invented? To give programmers jobs. No other reason
whatsoe
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:04 AM
To: 'Tomcat Users List'
Subject: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things to
ever happen to mankind
After getting convinced to try JSTL, I learned the following things:
1. JSTL and EL
Hi
> After getting convinced to try JSTL, I learned the following things:
..
Having read points 1-6, I thought, there must be a truth in your remarks.
(I did'nt use JSTL or EL yet, but I am about to try.)
But then I got to:
> Why was C++ invented? To give programmers jobs. No other reason
wh
After getting convinced to
try JSTL, I learned the following things:
JSTL and EL are inefficient. ÂTests on similar pages clearly showed
that. Â(compare - ${name} with
<%=name%>, run in a loop 1 times, youâll see the difference)
JSTL is cumbersome â someone told me once
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