This thread is about Coreboot support for the Chromebook, not Parabola support
for ARM.
Wouldn't the Parabola people be the best ones to talk about the status of
Parabola on ARM?
@fchmmr I just wanted to post here and find out what the progress is on
Parabola for this Chromebook? Thanks
"(a libre steamos anyone?)"
it would be great to have a fully free steamos like distro
I will try to bring trisquel gaming back to live.
That means, Trisquel with many free games. But it won´t have a store and it
won´t have a menu like Big screen mode. A store shouldn´t be too hard, but
I´m not so good at programming. And a big screen mode should be easy, just
make a DE that
welcome to the triskello community allan!
Thanks,glad to be ere.
"how comes all these discussions usually center around laptops and servers?"
The goal of the free software movement is to free all the computing,
regardless of device type. The only reason that, for example, the libreboot
project has freed a lot of laptops and now, more recently, a server
Sorry if you already said this but is it flash-able through a software method
like the x60 or must you use a hardware method?
Software method, but you need to build from source and also disable
write-protect on the flash ship by loosening a screw inside the computer. I
haven't tried this myself yet however.
These public discussion are very destructive, both Chris and Francis are two
of the most recognized people in the hardware field of the free software
movement. So I would recommend both of them to save those accusations to
themselves, and attack each other via email. Constructive
Have you made any progress on the ARM front? If so, I'd be happy to donate.
It's all very well to tell people to sit tight, stop whining, and content
themselves with non-free boot software until the holy grail of a free ARM
laptop arrives, but in the meantime, I will take the option that allows me to
be as free as possible. Currently (and I'm sorry to say this) that
Just wanted to say that I have a huge respect for Francis Rowe's work. What
he's been doing with libreboot and glug/minifree is in my view extremely
important, I would say vital. As a matter of fact I gave him my vote as fs
mug of the year. x_x
peace!
As i did write I get pissed when two parts are fighting and have the
potential of destroying them self because of. what I see is something
small. It seems to be more under the surface then the text I have been
reading here. In fights people go in defense and is attacking and often is
Without Francis and Libreboot, we have no libre/free BIOS.
Libreboot it is a strong step for Free Software.
Without Libreboot, we must to buy Lemote Yeeloong laptops with MIPS. And once
I tryed to buy this laptop and it is impossible today. No more stock today. I
think that Lemote is dead.
And PowerPC?
This might appear to be unrelated, but in order to understand it, one
must gather the pieces laid around this topic...
Anyaway, there are various ways to help other achieve software freedom,
and some people are more resistant on using free software than others.
But we as free software supporters
> I'll say that you've accomplished precisely nothing in the area that
libreboot works on,
I never claimed we accomplished anything in the area libreboot works on. What
on earth makes you think I was suggesting that? Our approach was completely
different. We *LOOKED* into that approached
> I'm working on libreboot, and doing what I can to make it grow. Libreboot
is
> definitely quite useful, IMO.
Maybe instead of us arguing you could help me to see exactly what it is you
see. For instance you see a future for libreboot. Why should I care about it
in an ARM/other
Thanks!
Yea- it's a debate worth having. I'm of the opinion if they're willing to
head toward free software it shouldn't matter too terribly much.
I'm personally going to continue avoiding Google, Lenovo, and other similar
products even if I'm not perfect. It's hard. Real hard. It's like
Ok, I like this response, overall. Feeling better now. I can work with this.
Progress.
People do things that are sometimes not ideal, and conflicts occur. It
happens. To respond to some of your points:
> I never claimed we accomplished anything in the area libreboot works on.
> What on
> is breaking new grounds and pushing the free software movement forward,
Your not 'breaking new ground'. Coreboot wasn't always full of non-free
pieces and we have other bootloaders that are free. And with ARM coming out
we don't even need libreboot. You've at best solved a temporary
^ seconded.
Also this thread really fucking needs this right now ->
> I don't see a need for libreboot where we are going because there already
exists other free bootloaders.
Of course, this is your persective, based on the assumption that libreboot
only integrates for it. The actual build system in libreboot is quite
flexible. We've discussed in the past,
I can see that you're not going to give up on attacking me (or lying about
me, for that matter).
What's interesting is that you're now doing it a lot more aggressively, and a
lot more publicly for the first time.
> You're right, but all computer's hardware and software is for x86-x64,
> and Francis did the first step for it.
Thanks to other projects it's largely a trivial effort to build a
distribution like Trisquel for ARM. This isn't to say it doesn't take time
and effort too, but it is something
> You're right, but all computer's hardware and software is for x86-x64,
This is wrong, many software is ported to ARM or even other Architectures.
As far as I understand, as long as the hardware uses the same standard, they
should be compatible. Except when the CPU is too different, e.g.
Your the one who wrote a lengthy post attacking me/thinkpenguin. I'm sorry if
Bob or I set you off, but it was not an attack on you.
> n libreboot, we have the message of not compromising, and we work hard to
free as much hardware as possible.
See- that's something I can support too! I'm not against libreboot's
existence. I agree that taking a firm stance is often a good thing. The more
people who do that the better.
I'm not the one who said that. Generally you can build the same software for
ARM as you can for X86. It's just a matter of building it for the
architecture. I'm sure someone can find an exception to this as there are
bits of code tied to certain chips/architectures... but we're speaking
> It's not slander when it is true and I'm 99.5% certain since I've seen the
logs
I have the same logs. The early work was not done by me, and I assumed that
Steve had used leaked datasheets, but I was wrong. It was pure RE, from
publicly available utilities and datasheets.
> However
> With the gluglug laptops, things are a lot different; you can't get them
easily
> and the process of flashing your bios on your own is a difficult one.
This really depends on what you are looking for, where you live, and your
technical ability. The reason you can get *any* USB N adapters
> Francis will go on his way and do what he thinks is best and the rest of us
will go on our way and do what we think is best.
Aside from comments about distros (advice which I also took from you, and
others), savewifi.org and one or two minor points, this is the only thing
you've said in
You're right, but all computer's hardware and software is for x86-x64, and
Francis did the first step for it. Is there some other way to use some
computer with ARM, free bios, and all libre GNU distros?
I think that people want to use hardware of today and software of today, not
> You just showed up out of the blue, expected me to do things your way and
> assumed that I would agree (which I didn't).
On the one hand you say you never worked with us and on the other you say we
made you do things. Which is it? Did we work with you or didn't we?
> And yes, I did contact
> I'm not the one making inaccurate statements. I NEVER said I was against
libreboot's existence.
Except, you've demonstrated it through your actions and your words.
> I just think it's time has come and gone and you could be working on
something that will be
> more useful than libreboot
I'm not the one making inaccurate statements. I NEVER said I was against
libreboot's existence. I just think it's time has come and gone and you could
be working on something that will be more useful than libreboot will be in
the coming years. If we have other bootloaders that work perfectly
I'm not telling people to buy ThinkPenguin computers over Mini free's. I know
that is hard to believe, but I didn't say that. I'm perfectly fine with
people buying Mini free's systems. They are better in this respect at the
moment. They won't be forever, but they are right now.
We have
It's not a problem. At least not one where we need libreboot. We have uboot
working on dozens of devices just fine. However there are many devices which
don't have a free version of uboot or it's violating licenses. However if we
design a laptop 'from scratch' then this problem goes away.
It is. But it is an exaggeration to say we need libreboot. We have uboot and
other free bootloaders that will be just fine once we move to ARM and other
architectures.
These bootloaders are already in use on other RYF devices like ThinkPenguin
routers.
There is value in libreboot right
It's coming. Just not quite here yet. We have actual prototypes and
manufacturers lined up. 4-5 years its been in conception and the majority of
the engineering and development has happened within the past couple years.
> Chris, the overall problem in all of this is still that you are selling
> the very kinds of systems that you are so critical of in public.
That's an utterly misleading statement. Your clearly referring to the Librem
and I'm critical of it not because it's any more or less freedom friendly
Thanks for putting up with the fighting words!
There is probably truth in what you are saying. I'm disgusted by it all and
see no good reason to have had any of this conversation at all. It's a bunch
of hoop la. It makes no meaningful difference what-so-ever. Francis will go
on his way and
Anyway so, back onto the rk3288 topic.
dimkr on the #libreboot freenode IRC channel has told me that he's porting
LibrePup GNU/Linux to the rk3288 ARM chromebooks. He's almost there, and has
got it to boot, he just has to get all the packages integrated. Librepup is a
libre version of
I do wonder what Libreboot has to do with ARM computers. As far as I know,
the OpenPandora has libre initialization software. At the very least, no one
has ever mentioned it having a blob in that area, even though many saw fit to
mention the proprietary nub firmware. That's from 5 years ago,
> What you said about libreboot using leaked docs is factually false.
> It was pure RE, the rest was based on public datasheets.
Your lying.
> If you want to continue slandering the libreboot project,
It's not slander when it is true and I'm 99.5% certain since I've seen the
logs. I believe
> You dislike Purism mostly because they are a direct competitor to you
I've never seen Chris say anything to this effect. All of the criticisms I've
seen him make are around ethics and, in particular, dishonesty. Actually,
this was an accusation the guy behind Purism made, if I'm not
> 3. No, what you did was try to destroy me, and then offer to "help" me.
> I responded to your offer with a link to wikipedia > articles about people
> who had invented things during their life, who only later were exploited
> by people like you and taken for a ride, then discarded like old
You can say whatever you like, and it won't change my mind about you. My mind
was made up a long time ago.
You don't get it. It's conflicting with the work others are doing. There is a
certain amount of money that people who care about free software have to
spend on laptops. If those who care about these issues are spending it on
this laptop (which as far as I know Francis isn't even selling
> Chris, I'm going to have to disagree with you entirely. Libreboot as it is
and as it
> has been, is absolutely vital. Without it, we'd still be where we were 2
years ago
libreboot is little more than coreboot and ARM doesn't require either. It
hasn't moved the goal post any further. It
> Chris, you're missing the point about libreboot entirely. Without it, there
would be *zero* viable options for systems
> that respect the users' freedom. You're also dismissing the hard work that
we put into the libreboot project, every
> day. We've done more than your company has done, in
I recenty baught a Libreboot X200 from Minifree, because I wan't to stop
using proprietery software on the long term.
When I baught my old laptop from Thinkpenguin two years ago, I asked if
coreboot could run on these laptops. Chris told me about the non-free BIOS
that would be hard to
1. Chris could you show how we can help those Projects? If not why not? I
find that kind of interesting.
2. Libeboot, please keep on supporting older devices, I hate e-waste, that´s
the reason I like Libreboot.
3. At this point in time, I think Libreboot is the only viable option for
Free
*Now I have real work to do* >> if nobody noticed the FCC and other world
regulatory agencies in Europe and Canada are passing laws/rules that will
essentially make free software illegal. Particularly projects like ours that
are trying to produce completely free devices.
If you have *any*
Chris, you're missing the point about libreboot entirely. Without it, there
would be *zero* viable options for systems that respect the users' freedom.
You're also dismissing the hard work that we put into the libreboot project,
every day. We've done more than your company has done, in the
Yea- I've talked to Rubén Rodríguez (aka quidam) about porting Trisquel to
ARM in the past (maybe 1-3 years ago). It shouldn't be that terribly hard.
I'm glad to hear someone is working on it.
I'd like to know how I can give back the hardware I bought at ThinkPenguin,
obviously they're hypocrites and I don't want to have to do anything with
them.
Long live free software.
About those designs what about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_hardware_projects and
specially http://www.openphoenux.org/ /
http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/.
Completely agree, while a new system like this isn't very complete and still
has issues - it is a great step gap until we have a even more free solution.
Trisquel is fine for servers. They get regular security updates upstream from
Ubuntu (for 14.04 LTS). The FSF also use Trisquel on their servers.
"obviously they're hypocrites and I don't want to have to do anything with
them."
what do you base this on?
1. I could, but rather not at this time. It's not or only partly public
knowledge. There is a video demo'ing the laptop actually. Early stages. I've
talked about the project before, but never associating ThinkPenguin with it.
In the press release / fund raising efforts / etc we'll be
I've been in direct contact with many the the projects or have been in
communications with them via other developers and engineers. I'm mainly
referring to laptops and desktops though in regards to Trisquel not having
been ported to ARM. Trisquel isn't really a server distribution or an
> Have you ever even talked to Allwinner? Did you work toward getting the
> code released at all? No. You didn't. We did.
So far, we've lacked the resources, not the intention. This is a legitimate
concern, but what you're doing here is trying to make it look like we lack
the intent. Once
Chris, this is actually a very good thing that you are campaigning against
the FCC's recent policy proposals regarding WiFi. I'm also against it, and
have done what little I can in support for the opposition to it. We're on the
same page here.
However, calling this "real work" to imply
Well, I have a suggestion for ThinkPenguin, MiniFree, and LibreBoot:
I know this can sound counter productive and really annoying for some
people, but could you please forget the differences and work on joint
efforts... DON'T CLOSE THE TAB YET!... Read on...
1. As far as I can tell from my tiny
I have only been reading a little at the start of this thread.
Am I the only one who here the line "Divide and Conquer" in the discussion
between Chris and fchmmr? The two best/only freedom respecting laptop
providers out there?
STOP WITH THE F-ING WHINING! Scream your hatred in a pillow
There you go again. This is why I hate you, and your company. You are
arrogant, you think that your way is right, and that everyone should just
submit to your own wishes.
Do you not think that I'm also in contact with the libre distros? I've *met*
Mark Weaver and Ruben Rodriguez (of GuixSD
I'm done if Francis is done. I try to avoid confrontation where possible...
but if you attack me in a lengthy post like this I'm going to respond.
"You don't get it. It's conflicting with the work others are doing. There is
a certain amount of money that people who care about free software have to
spend on laptops."
I believe your thinking is too narrow and you are too overprotective of the
small market that you see before your eyes.
I didn't want to work with you in the first place. I never asked you to
approach me. Your CTO approached me out of the blue and told me what
ThinkPenguin planned to do, and asked me to help ThinkPenguin.
When you publicly criticize my company for what it does, and then try to do
the very
This may not be as much of an issue as I think.
Great- now lets stop attacking each other. It's stupid and childish.
That isn't the 'real work' I'm referring to. The real work I'd be referring
to is getting code released upstream, designing hardware 'from scratch',
porting Trisquel to ARM. Useful work might be more appropriate. Reverse
Except,it's actually the other way around. You made the first move. But
you're right. Let's stop this. I have better things to do, such as, work on
libreboot, and directly undermine your opposition to it in the process.
1. Libeboot, please keep on supporting older devices, I hate e-waste, that´s
the reason I like Libreboot.
2. At this point in time, I think Libreboot is the only viable option for
Free Server and free high performance computing (or even distributed
computing) Arm just isn´t there jet. (There
When we have tried to work with Francis despite my dislike of his approach
he's (his words) 'played games' with us. How do I respond to that?
I've been very reserved in my *slight* criticism of the project/Francis
because I know how Francis has reacted in the past. Not everybody agrees with
1. First of all we didn't need your help. Bob's personally been hacking at
embedded systems a lot longer than you.
2. Bob offered to help *you* and you accepted- then turned your back on
Bob/ThinkPenguin. Twisting it to suggest he is incompetent is ingenious.
3. All I did was suggest you
Chris, the overall problem in all of this is still that you are selling the
very kinds of systems that you are so critical of in public. You tell people
that we need to move to fully free systems, and criticize the libreboot
project for being a "dead end" focusing on certain hardware that
>> Have you ever even talked to Allwinner? Did you work toward getting the
>> code released at all? No. You didn't. We did.
>
>So far, we've lacked the resources, not the intention. This is a legitimate
concern, but what you're doing here is trying to >make it look like we lack
the intent.
> Instead of seeing other RYF hardware-projects as contrary to your business
you should put your effort into
> supplying and marketing your own, like that very good refurbished router,
that will help the public to
> escape proprietary solutions today.
We only sell one refurbished product and
I thought you said you were done with this?
> Your taking short cuts and getting *nowhere* in the scheme of things
For this and the following text in that paragraph: again, you're missing the
point. Libreboot is providing a solution that people can use, right now at
this very moment,
No. Your confusing me with Bob. Apparently you and Bob had a conversation on
IRC. You emailed me that conversation and I responded. Then you got upset not
because of me agreeing with Bob, but because I agreed with the sentiment,
despite saying he was being childish.
I'm not going to
Now you're just blatantly lying to people. I'll respond to your points.
1. What? You didn't ask me for help, and I never offered it.
2. But he is, in this area.
3. No, what you did was try to take me over, and then offer to "help" me. I
responded to your offer with a link to wikipedia
Why would I be interested in GPS? I'm not saying that it's unimportant, but
it's unrelated to the libreboot project, which is what I'm focusing on.
I reject your rejection of libreboot. The project *is* worthwhile, and *is*
doing amazing things. I'm excited about what will happen in the
Chris, I'm going to have to disagree with you entirely. Libreboot as it is
and as it has been, is absolutely vital. Without it, we'd still be where we
were 2 years ago. What you're missing is that the mere existence of libreboot
serves as inspiration for others to push things forward, and to
Thanks! understood.
I removed mention of Debian and Fedora on the C201 page. It seemed like an
acceptable compromise, if we explained how to avoid blobs, but I had a few
conversations with people and came to the conclusion that I had made a
mistake.
The page in question is
A good decision!
This isn't the answer. It's a half-baked dead end. People need to be patient.
Adding more systems is just going to undermine real efforts to design and
develop a properly supported 100% free system. There are multiple people in
the community working to get code released within various
I can't see why you'd have to choose! I think it's a great advancement for
every new board that is freed, but this doesn't exclude the work on designing
freedom-respecting hardware from scratch. We need to fight on all fronts to
push libre computing.
the video a mali GPU, there's the unreleased lima driver that we hope we can
convince the developer to release and polish (ask paulk about that). Until
then, you have to use it without video acceleration (just software rendering)
to keep your freedom
About the wifi, the built in wifi needs blobs (chip is soldered) but you can
use a USB dongle. ThinkPenguin and Tehnoetic sell these, there are also other
AR9271 dongles that you can find online. So, at least some choices there.
I've not used this laptop yet, but will get one soon. Paul
From IRC:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/libreboot.git/commit/?id=d8b597f33e75d04b84be7c9d7081a3b97821617d
ASUS Chromebook C201 support in libreboot
issues:
* Needs blobs for video acceleration (in linux kernel) - optional, can do
most things without acceleration
* Needs blobs for wifi
I've recently read that Parabola supports ARMv7:
https://www.parabola.nu/news/parabola-supports-armv7/
Amazing work PaulK! The device costs roughly 222€.
https://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks/ASUS_Chromebook_C201/ &&
https://www.google.com/chromebook/find/#?device=asus-chromebook-c201
Sadly.. https://gitorious.org/lima
Thanks, nice, one more!
But I think, that buying that trashbook (piece of VIH), it wasting your
money. So, too blobed hardware, soldered proprietary wifi, ARM, bad support
for ARM, proprietary GPU...
It would better getting a Thinkpad x60, t60, Macbook 2,1, and flashing it
yourself. Or
On the other hand, it fails to meet RYF criteria because users would be too
tempted to install the blobs for wifi and video acceleration. There are RYF
endorsed laptops sold by Minifree and Libiquity which come with libreboot
preinstalled.
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