On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:37:02 -0700 "Bill Taylor"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
A covenant demands the participation of two
members..
this makes sense,
Bill, sums up the issue succinctly, in
cntxt
so what is a
(biblical?) 'unilateral covenant'--in as many words as you want
wasn't TB discovrd
to be in 'violation' while both 'active' and 'passive' (simultaneously,
masterfully)?
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:55:04 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In a message dated
11/22/2004 9:27:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Not so with God. He is muc
In a message dated 11/22/2004 8:38:36 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I've always wondered what the mark was as
well. I've heard some people erroneously say it is dark skin. Others a
lightning bolt like Harry Potter (or some other insignia).
The term for mark
In a message dated 11/22/2004 9:27:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not so with God. He is much more stern and has much higher
standards. If I became a passive participant in the sense of being a lazy
and slothful and timid person, he would cut me off from relationship wi
In a message dated 11/22/2004 5:52:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
SLADE -- I answered this, however, I now await the hatchet that removes my head
:-)
JD
idunno--DaveH used
it all th time, i stole it from him
(hey DaveH--what
does vbg mean?:)
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 19:44:36 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
"vbg" -- h, is that
short for vibing?
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
End of discussion??? What about the fact that the Church Fathers HATED the
book and called it falsely written and of error. It was considered a "canon"
book by.. oh.. about three CHURCHES... and that's it!
-- slade
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behal
"vbg" -- h, is that
short for vibing?
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 7:10
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Decision
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:59:18 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hello, Laura
I've always wondered what the mark was as
well. I've heard some people erroneously say it is dark skin. Others a lightning
bolt like Harry Potter (or some other insignia).
The term for mark [in Hebrew] is
Ot. In the KJV, it's used as such: sign (x60),
token (x14), ensign (x2
I really have no idea where that idiom came
from, I've known it for as long as I can remember.
Are your ears flapping in the breeze?
Translation: I know you heard me, but you didn't hear
what I said.
Jeff
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:59:18 -0700 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
hey Bill, I'm
still cojitatg on Polyani; remember him?
:)
Do you mean Polyani? Yeah,
those were the days :)
I've read Barnabus and find it to be apostasy as far as I am concerned. It
is clearly written by a Gentile with an anti-semitic axe to grind. End of
discussion.
Jeff
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 11:
*actually, in retrospct, i'm not quite sure why
this hiatus occurred, but i believe that's the reason*
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:39:35 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
(Outa 13000+
since 9/03; one temporal hiatus betw 12/17/03 and 2/3/04 [*]while i was spendg a lot of time w/ my
cancer-a
In a message dated 11/22/2004 9:11:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now John S. has considered
switching his answer from passive to active, but I'm not sure he has done
that.
Once again, you misconstrue my words. I gave my answer with explanation. Nothing written by me
Thanks for this masterpiece Bill
Jeff
- Original Message -
From:
Bill Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004
19:37
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
Covenant?
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECT
hey Bill, I'm still
cojitatg on Polanyi; remember him? :)
Do you mean Polyani? Yeah, those
were the days :)
DAVE -- I never asked you to answer whether I would call it
active or passive. I asked for you to characterize it as such.
Therefore, according to your own definition and understanding of the terms,
would YOU characterize Abraham as an active or passive participant in the
covenant?SLADE --
(Outa 13000+ since
9/03; one temporal hiatus betw 12/17/03 and 2/3/04 while i was spendg a lot
of time w/ my cancer-afflictd son and used a hosp computer most of the
time..IOW, Suz, over the last ~yr I've read less than half the email/s generatd
on TT, however, quite obviously, I've stored t
In a message dated 11/22/2004 7:30:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Slade wrote:
>If that's your definition of active participation,
>then it is. If that's your definition of passive
>participation, then it is.
I never asked you to answer whether I would call it active or p
Sorry
to see you go and I understand where you are coming from. Keep my email address
and phone number
--
slade
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of
ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, 22 November, 2004
19.42To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subje
(7000+ unread on
this computer, Suz--hang in t/here G :)
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:58:31 -0500 "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:> Suzy wrote:[re:]keep[g] up with the
100||
(i tried to thin
this baby down DavidM but T has it locked to prohibit editg..isn't it interestg, T timing
this PR to Izzy's exit? :)
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:51:30 -0500 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
Subject:
what religion are
you?
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:54:07 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> You
can use whatever criteria you want.
ShieldsFamily wrote:
To answer
your question, Lance, I believe
that I am probably the only one on TT without an accent. J Izzy
By Jove! Jolly good show. Bully!
Terry
-
Subject: PROGRESSIVE IMMIGRATION TO CANADA
Subject:Progressive immigration to Canada
Associated Press/ International/ Winnipeg
The flood of American l
cain or
abel?
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:09:54 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
my crowd (most of them) have fallen away from the
faith of our grandpa.
We'll meet you there, Izzy -- and remember you
often in the meantime.
bill
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:41
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] unsubscribe
I have come to the
conclusion (duh!) th
I have come to the conclusion (duh!) that
my participation on TT is not a worthwhile contribution. I need to use my time
wisely as a faithful steward. Please unsubscribe me. Thanks and
blessings to each one of you. Let me know when you figure it all
out. Just remember, it’s not what you
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 10:11
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
Covenant?
Bill Taylor wrote:I will go with what Lance and
Slade have written. They handled it quite nicely.DavidM repli
I say Abraham was VERY active. Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral Covenant?
Bill Taylor wrote:
> I will go with what Lance an
I have always wondered if the Father would
have sent Jesus had not Abraham been willing to sacrifice his own son.
Something tells me that act by Abe was much more important than we realize. Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Taylor
Sent: M
To answer your question, Lance, I believe
that I am probably the only one on TT without an accent. J Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004
3:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing
down
Judy Taylor wrote:
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It occasionally appropriate to speak of one being 'infected' by
traditions.
Among the participants on TT probaby David stands out as having
a gift for
teaching. Whenever and where ever he has 'practiced' this gift, he has
Lance wrote:
You play fast and loose with the (human)
language along with the species. It's these
kinds of 'language games' that precipitate
genuine laughter on the part of many.
Derrida would've given you high marks.
It might appear to you to be a language game, but for me it is not.
Peace
Suzy wrote:
I have decided that I am going to leave TT for a
while. It is very hard for me to keep up with the 100
some odd e-mails daily.
I am very sorry to see you leave, Suzy. You had given me hope and
encouragement. You might also consider lurking for awhile. TruthTalk has
its ups and down
I have decided that I am going to leave TT for a
while. It is very hard for me to keep up with the 100
some odd e-mails daily. I enjoy reading the posts and
I have really been challenged to back up what I
believe. But my family has to come first over a
discussion group.
I am writing my reasons ou
As to the original question (posed by my very own self), I answered it. You
play fast and loose with the (human) language along with the species.
It's these kinds of 'language games' that precipitate genuine laughter on
the part of many. Derrida would've given you high marks.
- Original Mess
David Miller wrote:
If I became a passive participant in the sense of
being a lazy and slothful and timid person, God
would cut me off from relationship with him like
our society cut off Ted Bundy. Do you agree?
Lance wrote:
No.
Why do you not agree? What do you make of the three stories of Matth
A reminder:We're not hoping to hear something
akin to 'good for you, you figured it all out' but, 'well done good and faithful
servant'
What we're wishing for: no foreign judges.(this
could be seen as both obtuse and abstruse)
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
Lance wrote:
> I was having a
little fun with David. I bet that he
> cracks a smile every now and then. David,
> please say that you do.
Yes, Lance. I was ROFLOL when you said that I
had a good chance of finishing in the top 10. Everyone here knows how
ridiculous that would be, especia
Not really. They sought his second coming. It was
not in vain.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: November 22, 2004 12:28
Subject: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
Covenant
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The word, I'
No.
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: November 22, 2004 12:26
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
> Lance wrote:
> > David: Are you an active/passive participant in the human race?
>
> I am an active participant in the hu
Perhaps rather than either/or it is both/and?
Adoption:Active? Passive? Serious!!(See Ephesians)
Suggestion:Combine rationalism with imagination. The role of imagination in
biblical and theological thinking is under rated.
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The word, I've come to understand, is abstruse. I'd
guess that there are many
'Davidians' around. I believe there to be at least
one on TT.
jt: That's nice Lance but the word I wanted to use is
obtuse which means
'dull; not having acute sensibility
Lance wrote:
David: Are you an active/passive participant in the human race?
I am an active participant in the human race. Even that relationship can be
broken if I became a serial murderer. Ted Bundy was an active participant
of the human race, but at some point we considered him unworthy of
John S. wrote:
Passive was chosen BECAUSE THE COVENANT
PROMISE IN CHRIST WAS GOING TO
HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT (IMO).
Bill Taylor wrote:
Yes to the emphasized. Does anyone
think otherwise?
I agree that the "covenant promise in Christ" was going to happen no matter
what, but from my perspective, that
The word, I've come to understand, is abstruse. I'd
guess that there are many 'Davidians' around. I believe there to be at least one
on TT.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: November 22, 2004 12:11
Subject: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It
occasionally appropriate to speak of one being 'infected' by traditions.
Among the participants on TT probaby David stands out as having a gift
forteaching. Whenever and where ever he has 'practiced' this gift, he has
likelydeveloped a 'following'. In
Bill Taylor wrote:
I will go with what Lance and Slade have
written. They handled it quite nicely.
They did? Lance took several emails to finally say that he would
characterize Abraham as an active participant. Slade did not answer the
question directly, but seems to indicate that active might
Judyt:I was having a little fun with David. I bet
that he cracks a smile every now and then. David, please say that you
do.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: November 22, 2004 11:46
Subject: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
covenant
It occasionally appropriate to speak of one being 'infected' by traditions.
Among the participants on TT probaby David stands out as having a gift for
teaching. Whenever and whereever he has 'practiced' this gift, he has likely
developed a 'following'. In one sense there exists a 'David Tradition'
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>David: Are
you an active/passive participant in the human race? (speaking ofraces, I'd
say you have a good chance of finishing in the top 10. Should youACTUALLY BE
PERFECT then, probably in the top 2 or 3)
jt: With a wife and five daughters I'd say he's
David:Are you an active/passive participant in the human race? (speaking of
races, I'd say you have a good chance of finishing in the top 10. Should you
ACTUALLY BE PERFECT then, probably in the top 2 or 3)
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECT
Judy wrote:
Peter spoke of the 'vain traditions' in which we were raised
and we were all raised with them; this is why we need our
minds renewed by the washing of water with God's Word.
Right. I think Lance also was pointing out what you just said, that we have
all been effected by traditions. Y
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy wrote: I don't perceive 'tradition' on TT but I do hear
familiar doctrine at times such as Calvinism and what is
calledArminianism.
Lance is using the word "tradition" to include doctrines like these.
The Bible uses the word tradition this way t
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>David Miller
wrote:>> Do you mean that the covenant is only binding on one
party>> to the covenant and that it cannot be broken by anyone
but>> the initiator of the covenant? Do you mean that the
covenant>> exists and is in force no matter what the ot
Lance wrote:
I used to think that you had 'broader' exposure theologically.
You've helped me see that this is not so. I shall attempt
to factor this in during future posts.
I have never had a religion class, and my reading these days is somewhat
limited in regards to theology. My interest is stro
Hi David,
As textually violent as I find some of your posts I must make it clear
that at times you bring an apprehension of what others are attempting to
say that is noteworthy. You do this below in your way of asking for
clarification. I like it.
Jonathan Hughes
Judy wrote:
> I don't perceiv
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
What you are calling NOT tradition I am calling IS
tradition. I don't perceive a single exception on TT.
jt: I hear you Lance and am not denying that
I inherited traditional stuff. Two of my grandfathers came to the colony
(Australia) to evangeliz
David:Would you agree that one finds some things IN the text and other
things THROUGH the text? How would you define each?
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: November 22, 2004 10:29
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral Covenant?
> Slade wrote:
> > If that's yo
Judy wrote:
I don't perceive 'tradition' on TT but I do hear familiar
doctrine at times such as Calvinism and what is called
Arminianism.
Lance is using the word "tradition" to include doctrines like these. The
Bible uses the word tradition this way too.
e.g., "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, a
As to paragraph #1 I answer yes.
As to paragraph #2 I answer yes.
I used to think that you had 'broader' exposure theologically. You've helped
me see that this is not so. I shall attempt to factor this in during future
posts.
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oophs!!
Lance wrote:
That's what I also meant 'accent and tradition are
learned behaviour'. I was simply suggesting that when we 'listen' on TT we can
hear 'traditions' like we can hear accents.Sometimes they (traditions) are of
some longstanding and, sometimes they are currently being for
Slade wrote:
If that's your definition of active participation,
then it is. If that's your definition of passive
participation, then it is.
I never asked you to answer whether I would call it active or passive. I
asked for you to characterize it as such. Therefore, according to your own
definit
What you are calling NOT tradition I am calling IS
tradition. I don't perceive a single exception on TT.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: November 22, 2004 09:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Unilateral
Covenant
Oophs!!
La
Lance wrote:
He (Abraham) participated and we participate.
So then you would characterize Abraham as an active participant, correct?
Lance wrote:
This in no way negates the possibility of
a 'unilateral' covenant.
How are you defining "unilateral covenant"? Do you mean that the covenant
is only bi
Oophs!!
Lance wrote:
That's what I also meant 'accent and tradition are
learned behaviour'. I was simply suggesting that when we 'listen' on TT we can
hear 'traditions' like we can hear accents.Sometimes they (traditions) are of
some longstanding and, sometimes they are currently being for
David Miller wrote:
Do you consider Abraham to be an active participant
or a passive participant in God's covenant with him
Gary wrote:
by what criteria are you analyzing the issue*, below;
also, this issue relative to the covenants which comprise
the OT?
You can use whatever criteria you want. In
John S. wrote:
I don't worry at all about libel, David.
You don't worry that you might have written a false witness against your
brother in Christ? [] Please
consider thanking me for the correction. A wise man loves the one who
rebukes him.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
"Let y
John S. wrote:
Am I a brother in Christ in good standing
or not? Your silence is interesting.
You asked me not to respond to every point, and the answer to this one I
wrote in a previous post so I was not going to respond. Of course I accept
you as my brother in Christ. Not only that, but as I
This is a note from a brother in Christ in Africa. Not a missionary,
but a native. He contacted me a little over a year ago, requesting any
literature that would help him win people to Christ. We cleaned out
our book shelves, but it all fit into one box. Still, they were
grateful for anythi
Passive was chosen because the covenant promise in Christ was going to happen no
matter what (IMO). John
Yes to the emphasized. Does anyone
think otherwise?
Gotta go,
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, No
In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:56:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Scripture speaks often about the nations coming to Israel. The mixed multitude that came out of Egypt and the foreigner or stranger who dwells among Israel were all to be considered as though native born. I
Slade Henson wrote:
Scripture speaks often about the nations coming
to Israel. The mixed multitude that came out of Egypt and the foreigner
or stranger who dwells among Israel were all to be considered as though
native born. I do not think it would be fair to say God ignored the
nation
In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:39:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Here's an answer. Avoided? Probably, because you pose the question like
there's an absolute simple answer. There is not.
Avraham was active, in a way. God initiated contact. Avraham responded with
obedience:
Am I to assume that the 'faith of our grandparents'
is pretty much identical with 'the faith of Judy Taylor?' (read:what we've read
by you over time).
Ahh the shortcomings of both my ability to write
and e-mail itself so, I'll just say that Wauchope is 'coming from' Australia.
(Would you l
David, I had been working on a response when I went to bed last night. When
I got up this morning, all that I had written was gone, no where to be
found. And so, to expedite the process, I will go with what Lance and Slade
have written. They handled it quite nicely.
Judy, if you are on, I was also
From: Slade Henson
Scripture speaks often about the nations coming to
Israel. The mixed multitude that came out of Egypt and the foreigner or
stranger who dwells among Israel were all to be considered as though native
born.
jt: Is 'native born' where it is at Slade? I think
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
As to further definining and,
conditional/unconditional, I believe that Bill Taylor will be addressing this
extensively in future posts.
jt: I may not get to see them, am leaving on
Wednesday to spend time with my elderly mother in Melbourne, Austral
Amen Sladerino!
- Original Message -
From:
Slade
Henson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: November 22, 2004 05:55
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Two
Covenants
Scripture speaks often about the nations coming to Israel. The mixed
multitude that came out of Egypt and t
As to further definining and,
conditional/unconditional, I believe that Bill Taylor will be addressing this
extensively in future posts.
As to lacking substance in the areas of God's
justice/judgement, you may be correct. I'm continuing to think these
through.
'They hid' Well, that may m
Very wise, Terry. I think Abel and Cayin
were probably grandfathers, great grandfathers or greater by this point. Cayin
was worried about being "snuffed" by an army of Abel's descendants (Hatfields
& McCoys).
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scripture speaks often about the nations coming to Israel. The mixed
multitude that came out of Egypt and the foreigner or stranger who dwells
among Israel were all to be considered as though native born. I do not think it
would be fair to say God ignored the nations by giving Israel a specia
Did I hear that your nickname was 'Dumbo'. (Lest we
unintentionally cause offence, Dumbo was a Disney character with big ears..some
of us on some occasions can be touchy..touchy..touchy I think not you
though, Jeff).
- Original Message -
From:
Jeff
Powers
To: [EMAIL PR
Here's an answer. Avoided? Probably, because you pose the question like
there's an absolute simple answer. There is not.
Avraham was active, in a way. God initiated contact. Avraham responded with
obedience: he continued the journey to Canaan began by his father. God made
some promises and Avraham
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
He (Abraham) participated and we participate. This
in no way negates the possibility of a 'unilateral' covenant.
jt: Then you might need to explain a little
more what this concept involves and if it is conditional or
unconditional??
As to the cha
Lance,
Was my ears flappin' in the breeze
agin' :)
Jeff
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004
4:00
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing
down?
I do believe many people on TT speak with
an accent. Tell
He (Abraham) participated and we participate. This
in no way negates the possibility of a 'unilateral' covenant.
As to the charge of 'error':I'm currently
comfortable subsuming most, if not all, my thinking under:The Nature of God and,
The Nature of God's Gospel. (I should appreciate knowin
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