[twitter-dev] Re: /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string

I just ran your exact code, and was able to pull an xml string just fine, so I do not believe it is your code. The only thing I can think is you may want to curl_close() the connection, perhaps there is some caching or other similar thing in effect, though that is a big long shot. Mayb

[twitter-dev] Re: /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string

How are you showing $query? If you're just doing print $query in a browser, the XML wouldn't show up in the window. You could either set the Content-type: text/plain before outputting $query, or by checking view source. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 22:37, ArnieLapinig wrote: > > Hello, > > I hope som

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

I use a service called localbunny that allows people to pull content on request, will this type of service be effected as well: Example: a user types @TwitterName keyword this returns 1- 5 tweets. Multiple people tweet that syntax per day and prior to a meeting 100's of people might make this sam

[twitter-dev] /users/show.xml? doesn't return xml string

Hello, I hope someone can help my query with the REST API /users/show.xml doesn't seem to be returning an xml string... I'm getting strange data back from my query. Here's the code: $twitterHost = 'http://twitter.com/users/show.xml? screen_name=' . urlencode($lookforname);

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Chad, Could you provide Twitter's official stance on what exactly is being banned? If the ban is limited to recurring tweets, it would help to have a clear definition. Can I assume that this means that Twitter is no longer allowing a single user to publish the substantially same content to the

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

When my application requests an OAuth token on behalf of a user trying to login, I have been seeing some errors: Frequently: "/oauth/access_token Invalid / expired Token" What is the length of time that a token is supposed to be valid for? Is this documented and can it be extended? I'm sure th

[twitter-dev] Re: Famous Personality Twitter Accounts

anyway, ignore my previous response. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Yogesh Mali wrote: > Hello > This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports > personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users > from fake accounts? Initially I thought verified

[twitter-dev] Re: Famous Personality Twitter Accounts

did you want this - http://twitter.com/verified ? On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Yogesh Mali wrote: > Hello > This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports > personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users > from fake accounts? Initially I tho

[twitter-dev] Famous Personality Twitter Accounts

Hello This might be naive, but I was checking out many Hollywood, sports personalities twitter accounts. So how does Twitter authenticate these users from fake accounts? Initially I thought verified accounts will be the way, but then I saw there are many people whose accounts are not verified , but

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

"I've previously asked for guidelines on what our responsibilities are in terms of self-policing. No answer." Add to that the clear and unambiguous definition of things. Yeah sure, "Twitter cannot clearly define things because that will aid the spammers." Bullshit. It is their responsibility to

[twitter-dev] Re: Noise-tweet regex repository

also , there should be a way for people whose tweets are wrongly marked as spam to remove their reg -exes from the system- and the system can perhaps send a direct message to sender for every 100 or so noise tweets blocked. Just a thought.. N. S On 10/14/09, Dave Briccetti wrote: > > The regex

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Chad: Sorry, I didn't see you had posted in here, and not sure if my subsequent posts properly answered you. I mean that Desktop apps, not being bound by a whitelisted IP, wouldn't be limited by restrictions limiting API access to OAUTH only. Namely, a desktop client could use a Mozilla user-a

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

With communication like that, we can together figure out ways to give the users what they want in a manner that does not put undue strain on your system. Pissing developers off is NOT the right way to do it. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:58 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > Chad, > > Perhaps it will behoov

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Chad, Perhaps it will behoove the "powers that be" to actually speak to some of us developers to discover the ways people are using Twitter. When decisions are made from the isolation of the glass bubble of the Twitter Head Office, without really knowing what the USERS want, stuff like this ensue

[twitter-dev] Re: Noise-tweet regex repository

The regexes can be pulled into an application at runtime, or at any other time by humans, machines, and perhaps beasts. For now I am happy to take the submitted noise-tweet candidates and create the regexes from them. I’m thinking of expanding the filtering to include application names (the “sou

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Thanks for the response Chad. Hoping we can find measures to curb abuse while still allowing responsible use of recurrence as a useful tool for publishers, businesses and their followers who benefit from the consistency/timeliness of the communications. On 10/13/09 8:28 PM, "Chad Etzel" wrote:

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Thank you Chad, that is comforting to know. Dewald On Oct 13, 10:28 pm, Chad Etzel wrote: > Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with > great intent. I have been proxying major points to "powers that be" > and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The re

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Believe it or not, I've been reading every post on this thread with great intent. I have been proxying major points to "powers that be" and started an internal discussion on the topic at hand. The resulting decisions and policies that may be made/enforced from these discussions is, how do you say,

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

The only Twitter participation we've had thus far on this unfortunate matter was Chad aging 10 years in 10 seconds over the idea that someone can write a desktop or browser script that scrapes the login page and then do whatever the hell it pleases (you know, like posting something awful like recu

[twitter-dev] twitterauth unpacked into GEMS directory issue

Has anyone had an issue doing ajax calls and the twitterauth thinking it is the root directory rather than the app directory?

[twitter-dev] Re: Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks'

Cut it out, Abraham :P ugh, spammers suck :( On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:27 PM, News <4bra...@gmail.com> wrote: > Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks' > > http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 > > http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 > > http://bit.ly/2dWFN5 > > Obama: Afghanistan decision in 'coming weeks'

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

I dunno. It'd be nice. I personally like rearranging deck chairs like this. It was civil and, hopefully, productive. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 17:39, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have > any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ou

[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

There are many many reasons to reject whitelist applications. We definitely will not whitelist an entire /24 block of IPs, though. I have responded to you off-list about your particular case. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Scott Haneda wrote: > > What is the most common reason a whitel

[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

What is the most common reason a whitelist request is rejected? I sent in a comma sep list of my entire /24, just because I do not know what IP's I am yet to use. Is that probably it? -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chad

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

SocialOomph.com On Oct 13, 8:45 pm, Justyn wrote: > By the way - what was the "offending" app? > > On Oct 13, 6:39 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > > I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have > > any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by > > rearrangi

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

By the way - what was the "offending" app? On Oct 13, 6:39 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have > any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by > rearranging deck chairs? > > Dewald > > On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn wrote:

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

A weigh-in from Twitter would certainly be appreciated. On Oct 13, 6:39 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have > any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by > rearranging deck chairs? > > Dewald > > On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, J

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

I often wonder whether our non-API musings here on these forums have any effect on anything, or are we just amusing ourselves by rearranging deck chairs? Dewald On Oct 13, 8:03 pm, Justyn wrote: > If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to > being a feature? > > Abus

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

If duplicate tweets are the concern, then why are RT's on their way to being a feature? Abuse is the concern. Not duplicate content, right? So a local restaurant can't setup a tweet to go out on Wednesdays to remind their followers of 1/2 off appetizers? There's no ill intent here, and they have

[twitter-dev] Re: Picture overlapping

It sounds like you need to get the developer of your Twitter client in here so we can help him.

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

They already do that ... in SOME cases. Pharmacies are required (or maybe simply strongly encouraged) to sell OTC meds like Sudafed behind the counter because some people use that to make crystal meth. The government requires a waiting period on guns because some people use guns to murder people.

[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

Hi Jacob and/or Sam, I don't have any visibility into the Zen Desk tickets. You can try supp...@twitter.com for that... -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Jacob wrote: > > Hi Chad, > > I've had difficulty receiving responses to #591600 and #593461 - is > this due to the bug? Looks like it'

[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

Hi Chad, I've had difficulty receiving responses to #591600 and #593461 - is this due to the bug? Looks like it's been ignored : < Thanks -Sam On Oct 13, 9:37 pm, Chad Etzel wrote: > There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit > rejection reasons. Please email a...@twi

[twitter-dev] Picture overlapping

The pictures of who I am following overlap their tweets and I can't read all of it.

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> > For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How > > about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? > > You may have a point. But it comes down to uneven enforcement. > Twitter smacks down an app because they allow an individual to recur, > say, every

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Now there is an excellent analogy, which begs the question, "Where is the user's responsibility in this?" I have very clearly warned my users, every time they enter a tweet, that they must adhere to the Twitter Rules, with hyperlinks to those rules. That was not good enough. So, with your analog

[twitter-dev] Re: Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

There is currently a bug in the system that will inadvertently omit rejection reasons. Please email a...@twitter.com with your username and we can lookup the information. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Scott Haneda wrote: > > I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: >

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Yes, and should be treated as such. I personally detest all those stupid twitter-based games. Point is, with Twitter's userbase, some get through the cracks. Don't like it, report it. This is like complaining that cops only pull over SOME speeders. Yeah, some are going to get through the cracks. O

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> For the sake of argument, let's take this at face value as true. How > about the search pollution issue with recurrent tweets in general? You may have a point. But it comes down to uneven enforcement. Twitter smacks down an app because they allow an individual to recur, say, every Monday: "T

[twitter-dev] Ummmm, how in the heck does someone get support around here

I brought this up on this list before, let's look at this: http://help.twitter.com/home 1) Where do I go to open a ticket? I read the entire page, to find a little link, that says "ask us". That takes me to: http://twitter.zendesk.com/requests/new That redirects me around a few times, and take

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

My point is that Basic Auth will be going away with the API. If an application is not using the API, then it's developers don't have to worry about Basic Auth going away because it won't concern them. OAuth is for API authorization, not website authorization. Ryan On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:11 P

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> > You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP.  Do you think that > > Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop > > clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password > > only? > > Since when do Firefox and IE use the API to communicate with Twitt

[twitter-dev] Separate terms using commas?

I am using the streaming search API. If I have more than one term to search, do I need to separate those terms with commas? If these are hash tags, do I include the hash symbol? ("#test1, #test2, #test3) I am experiencing some random problems, and I would like to eliminate this as the trouble spo

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> > Does AT&T write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a > > lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand > > you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course > > not! > > Nope. They send letters to the FCC because Google Voice is filling

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> I see @ mention abusers as a different breed because for the most part > their Tweets are not technically duplicates. They are complete > pollution for sure and harder for an individual user to stop > preemptively. At least if someone is annoyed with recurring or > duplicate tweets they can si

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

There appears to be a lack of understanding on the part of Twitter of the following: When you create a vacuum, something will fill that vacuum. Instead of working with me and opting for a solution I offered to them that would have ensured that recurring tweets never result in duplicate content f

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 13:54, PJB wrote: > Does AT&T write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a > lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand > you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course > not! > Nope. They send letters to the FC

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> You clearly do not understand the basics of HTTP. Do you think that > Twitter is going to somehow deny Firefox, IE, and other desktop > clients from connecting to Twitter with a simple username and password > only? Since when do Firefox and IE use the API to communicate with Twitter? Last time

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> > > Wrong. _Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for > > > desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. > > > > Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option > > for desktop clients. Furthermore, please explain to me what voodoo you

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

On Oct 13, 12:48 pm, JDG wrote: > > Wrong.  Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for > > desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. > > Explain to me where it's obvious that basic auth will ALWAYS be an option > for desktop clients. Furthermore, please expla

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> > Wrong. Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for > desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. > When are you going to turn off Basic Auth? We would like to deprecate Basic Auth at some point to prevent security issues but no date has been set for that. We w

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM, PJB wrote: > > Wrong.  Basic Authentication will obviously ALWAYS be an option for > desktop clients, regardless of whether or not it is via API. Please explain this statement? -Chad >> Furthermore, the app in question explicitly offered the option of a >> recu

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

I'm not debating that there might have been some confusion. I wasn't implying that you were irresponsible or malicious when building your app, and I commend you for taking appropriate measures when contacted by Twitter. It's now precedent, though, that it is a violation of the TOS, regardless of ho

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic > auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All > they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that > app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts t

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

"the app in question explicitly offered the option of a recurring tweet which is a violation of the TOS" Hang on a second. Please point me to the Twitter Rules where it clearly said that a recurring tweet is in violation of the TOS. Even though my app provided users with the ability to have recu

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

If the desktop client uses OAuth (which, if and when they deprecate basic auth, will be all), you bet your ass they can regulate desktop clients. All they have to do is ban any tweets using the Consumer Secret and Key for that app (and any subsequent keys said jackass developer attempts to get afte

[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL

http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-Twitter/lib/Net/Twitter.pod On Oct 13, 3:33 am, apfelmaennchen wrote: > I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a > TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit "start-help", I think I'll be able > to proceed. > > Can somebody help me with a sam

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Twitter is being incredibly stupid, rash, and short-sighted about this. Does AT&T write to Microsoft and say, hey, our network is getting a lot of junk email sent through Microsoft Outlook. We therefore demand you get rid of the CC and BCC features of that product. Of course not! That Twitter

[twitter-dev] Re: HTTP Server Error 503 No available server to handle this request

And I am still having issues. I still can't post status updates from my application, even though this worked fine on Sunday night. Ryan On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM, rivv wrote: > > My application is no longer able to Authorize Twitter accounts, even > though I was able too on october 9th.

[twitter-dev] I try to request for a white-list but results in blank page.

Hi. I try to request to be on a white-list http://twitter.com/help/request_whitelisting After submitting, I only get blank page on both FireFox3.5 and IE8 I have done this several times in FireFox3.5 first before I switched to IE8 Is the submission success?... Or it is an error? Regards,

[twitter-dev] Re: Whitelisting - Turn Around

I got blank page on submission on both IE8 and FF3.5 not sure why? On Oct 13, 11:37 pm, Chad Etzel wrote: > It can take up to a week. Unfortunately, everyone's project is timely > and wants more data as soon as possible :( > > We're working through the backlog. > > -Chad > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009

[twitter-dev] Re: HTTP Server Error 503 No available server to handle this request

My application is no longer able to Authorize Twitter accounts, even though I was able too on october 9th. I am assuming it is because of this as well, so take from that what you will. On Oct 12, 7:47 pm, eclipsed4utoo wrote: > Are people still having issues posting status updates from third pa

[twitter-dev] Re: How To Unlock Locked iPod

Looks like i'll have to ban myself :( Abraham On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 07:51, Andrew Badera wrote: > Nice. One of these showed up as from _me_ over in DotNetDevelopment. > Someone found an exploit in Google Groups ... > > ∞ Andy Badera > ∞ +1 518-641-1280 > ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

As I mentioned yesterday, phishing, keystroke logging are some of the attacks that a malicious app can use with OAuth. With these attacks, a malicious app can get the password. Of course, in the case of basic auth, every app (malicious or good) will always get the password. However, as I also men

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

I see @ mention abusers as a different breed because for the most part their Tweets are not technically duplicates. They are complete pollution for sure and harder for an individual user to stop preemptively. At least if someone is annoyed with recurring or duplicate tweets they can simply unfol

[twitter-dev] Re: Whitelisting - Turn Around

It can take up to a week. Unfortunately, everyone's project is timely and wants more data as soon as possible :( We're working through the backlog. -Chad On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Kyle B wrote: > > Hi, > > I requested to be whitelisted on October 9th, which is less than a > week I know

[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL

If you are looking to do something basic like that, then curl works well. As a perl script: #!/usr/bin/perl my $VAR1="hello"; my $VAR2="bye bye"; my $response=`curl --basic --user test:water --data status=\"aHello world $VAR1 $VAR2. This is my first test tweet automatically posted from a p

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

> Isn't it the case they reject duplicate Tweets if you try to post the > same thing twice consecutively? I've not seen them reject duplicate > Tweets if there is intervening posts. Correct. > Personally I think this is a really bad move on Twitter's part. > Because of the streaming model of Tw

[twitter-dev] Whitelisting - Turn Around

Hi, I requested to be whitelisted on October 9th, which is less than a week I know. Unfortunately, my project is timely and requires receiving a larger amount of data as soon as possible. I saw that other people had trouble with being whitelisted so I was wondering the time that it usually take

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

The problem is that on mobile platforms is extremely easy to simulate a regular browser to the point a user cannot tell the difference. Training users to expect security because it looks like a browser is even worse than telling them to give their passwords to native apps but be careful as to whic

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

To everyone who's suggesting to embed a web view in the desktop or mobile app, please go read this: Specifically, "... we insist that you must not use embedded rendering controls to present the OAuth process ...". Phishi

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

Isn't it the case they reject duplicate Tweets if you try to post the same thing twice consecutively? I've not seen them reject duplicate Tweets if there is intervening posts. Personally I think this is a really bad move on Twitter's part. Because of the streaming model of Twitter itself and the

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

The Twitter API already rejects duplicate tweets. It appears that not everyone in Twitter is aware of this fact. Ryan, can you please communicate that to your fellow Twitter employees? Dewald On Oct 13, 2:23 am, PJB wrote: > I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift >

[twitter-dev] Re: Duplicate Tweets

They can still check for duplicate tweets, and can still suspend accounts violating the TOS, regardless of client. On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 23:23, PJB wrote: > > > I worried about this. Doesn't Twitter realize this will just shift > things to desktop apps which they have less control over?!? > >

[twitter-dev] Re: basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL

Twitter has a list of libraries that should help http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Libraries#Perl Usually when I want to start working with an api in perl I check cpan our first http://search.cpan.org/search?query=twitter&mode=all Most libraries in cpan will have some example code to get you going. On

[twitter-dev] Re: How To Unlock Locked iPod

Nice. One of these showed up as from _me_ over in DotNetDevelopment. Someone found an exploit in Google Groups ... ∞ Andy Badera ∞ +1 518-641-1280 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew%20badera On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 6:45 AM,

[twitter-dev] How To Unlock Locked iPod

How To Unlock Locked iPod http://bit.ly/hddpp http://bit.ly/hddpp How To Unlock Locked iPod   

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

On Oct 12, 11:44 pm, Josh Roesslein wrote: > Providing an API endpoint for basic auth credential exchange for a > token would be a nice solution, but I can see it > getting abused. An attacker could bombard this endpoint trying to > guess an account's password. Protection can be placed to limit

[twitter-dev] basic help needed on connect to TWITTER and send a tweet with PERL

I really find it difficult to understand documentation how to code a TWITTER-API in perl. But with a bit "start-help", I think I'll be able to proceed. Can somebody help me with a sample PERL-code: >From within a PERL script ( which has two variables filled with strings. names of those VARS are

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

As a a software and Web site user, I consider my desktop apps "mine" and Web sites "theirs." I am sure that this is the mindset of most people. We "visit" Web sites, and we "give" information to them. Yes, they do things for us in return. Even when providing SaaS, I am still on "their" site. On t

[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter rejecting show_user request

Am I reading this right? ... The php warning message implies that your php script is trying to open the string " . " as a file [1] . It seems very unlikely to me that this is a valid filename, ignoring the fact that the user with ID 4667006333 also does not seem to exist [2] [1] http://php.n

[twitter-dev] Re: OAuth wed & desktop feedback

>>Until that happens, no user or developer is going to be happy with >>OAuth in a desktop or mobile application. Sorry to be blunt, but the >>user experience sucks when you're using OAuth outside the confines of >>a web browser. Not necessarily. A UIWebView (in an iPhone app) can provide a good u