that are listed in the table directory. Is that many?
Mind you, the version that I have has a fair number of features and
lookups -- 65 in GSUB. (Interesting: they're only Type 1 and Type 4
substitutions - nothing contextual!)
Peter Constable
.
2. If the newest version can only be had by buying new
Office-products,
than the label 'OpenFont' is not deserved.
Microsoft has never used the label 'OpenFont' for this or any of the
fonts that ship with their products.
Peter Constable
much about markup.
It's not a list dedicated to discussion of markup, but if people contend
that a solution to a problem lies in something other than plain text,
then it is germane to this list to have that alternative solution
elaborated.
Peter Constable
are wanting to do?
Peter Constable
.
Peter Constable
indicate which is which.
Peter Constable
sequitor.
BTW, for the record, among other things, I do design fonts (though I
wouldn't say I do type design).
Peter Constable
and French terms and definitions, but I've never investigated.
If you're referring to either of the following:
ISO 1087, Terminology Work -- Vocabulary
ISO/IEC 2382, Information Technology -- Vocabulary
they're both published in both English and French.
Peter Constable
and observing countries, all of whom may submit comments,
but only the former will be sent ballots for voting. Again, this is all
following long-established ISO process.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
, it's U+0E31 :-)
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
Im sure various people here will find this of interest:
http://www.china.org.cn/english/culture/107829.htm
[I'll try this again -- plain text this time.]
Here's the abstract for one of the presentations at ATypI next week.
Will this be the every-character-has-a-story repository we've always
wished for?
---
Decode Unicode!
A typographic database
Johannes
combining marks), but that was not
a specific intent of the proposal.
Peter Constable
That's what you get when you copy and paste text when you're a bit
tired. Of course, the column on the right was supposed to say 05D0...
ALEF. I've submitted a revised doc.
Peter
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Chris Jacobs
Sent:
Gerd:
Could you provide some images of the things you're wanting to support,
along with further clarification regarding which are in existing usage
versus which are hypothetical?
Peter Constable
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Gerd
the distinction between ro and mo a script distinction, which is
out of scope for ISO 639 and probably not the best idea (though it is
one possibility I mentioned to JAC members).
Peter Constable
implementations. That is also a
factor in deciding what should be done with these two identifiers that
appear to be synonyms.
Peter Constable
if it were declared that mo is a
synonym of and, therefore, it is recommended that systems interpret mo
like ro and stop any further generation of mo?
Peter Constable
and is useful for documentation purposes,
that would be a valid distinction for ISO 639 to provide distinct IDs
for.
Peter Constable
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin
protective and patronizing, and be then offensive for real. PC does
back fire very often.)
I do??! :-0
Peter Constable
distinction between Romanian and Moldavian.
OK. For managing language resources, what ID should one use?
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
is not to generate it.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization
Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows
Division
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
support in fonts wouldn't offer any benefit wrt this
scenario that I can see.
Peter Constable
FYI, SIL has published a Vai font that they developed a few
years ago: http://scripts.sil.org/SILVai.
Peter Constable
); mark-color: rgb(255,0,0);Some Arabic
Text/span
Of course, this approach is simply moving description of the
lowest-level portions of the hierarchy into attributes rather than
representation as elements. It does work around the problem, though.
Peter Constable
Given that a few people regularly seem to have a hard time sending their
responses to the appropriate list, I wonder if a rule could be set up to
reject messages that are coming from those people and that also have
[Hebrew] in the subject field? That might get their attention. :-)
Peter
conversions. It's menu options in this regard are
a bit cryptic, and I found there could be situations in which what it
was showing in hex mode was not the same as what is actually in the
file. I suggest some changes to the author, but didn't manage to
convince him.
Peter Constable
Cambodian System of Writing and Beginning Reader with
Drills and Glossary
Franklin E. Huffman, with assistance from Chhom-Rak Thong
Lambert Im Proum.
http://pratyeka.org/csw/
Peter Constable
.)
Peter Constable
4.0).
An a followed by combining umlaut followed by combining macron
is not the same as a plus combining macron plus combining umlaut.
That rule applies to combining marks in the *same* canonical combining
class. In this case, they are in different classes.
Peter Constable
correctly here, it should
have the diaeresis above the macron, just like the first u.
This is a known problem in Uniscribe.
Peter Constable
there are several more idiosyncratic phonetic
symbols out there; I had not proposed ones I know of before now as I
expected they'd be about as well received as the two symbols created by
Doke that I proposed last summer: the s and z with swash tail (they were
not accepted at that time).
Peter
), the z
(but not the s) is cited in A.N. Tucker's article Orthographic systems
and conventions in Sub-Saharan Africa.
Peter Constable
no recollection what might have been said.) I
don't know what Bell might have published, but they were also used by
Sweet:
Sweet, Henry. 1906. A primer of phonetics. 3rd edn., revised. Oxford:
Clarendon Press.
Would you consider these too idiosyncratic?
Peter Constable
was of some importance in
Africanist linguistics).
Peter Constable
.
Peter Constable
. a
MODIFIER LETTER SMALL TURNED Y, would be used than one of Doke's
idiosyncratic symbols. But, they were indeed rejected, and for now
remain PUA only (supported in the Doulos SIL font).
Peter Constable
their
compilation because they never gained currency, and that strongly
suggests a lack of user community.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
group of languages. I believe they use
similar orthographies.
Also: What about upper case forms?
The uppercase of !xhosa is !Xhosa. Uppercase versions of phonetic
symbols are a concern only if the phonetic symbols gain currency, which
is not the case here.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization
up by D. Starner: is a work
sufficiently
interesting that digital archivers like Project Gutenberg would be
interested
in it.
Yes, that would be a consideration.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
pointing out that statements like more precisely than IPA do
not constitute an argument in favour of encoding. The fact that after 80
years there are no conventional symbols for pre-palatal nasals speaks to
the value and necessity of having symbols with such precise meanings.
Peter Constable
for the world's speech sounds. And during that time, they have *not*
been using these symbols of Doke's for any purpose. A reprint of his
1926 book isn't going to suddenly change that.
Peter Constable
use a legal distinction as
an argument for or against distinct encoding.
On the other hand, to the extent that the legal judgment can be seen as
a reflection of perceptions of script identity by an entire society,
that may be relevant.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure
a
script or script variant. But perhaps I really missed the point...
Peter Constable
to this.
I'm wondering mainly because I've been concerned at some of the text in
one portion of the draft and expected to see it some up on a UTC agenda,
but it hasn't shown up so far.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
as a distinct set of characters.
Peter Constable
that these are scripts in the
sense used in iso10646.
Nor is anybody asking to encode these separately.
Peter Constable
of Latin transliterations will fade all that
quickly.
Peter Constable
have.
Peter Constable
all need to be patient while the WG2 officers are working on it.
Peter Constable
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of D. Starner
* A comparable discussion could appear involving Fraktur and Latin
characters
and Chao and Chang.
I agree, but only somewhat...
That was the point of Chao vs. Chang...
BTW, it occurred to me that your
. It's especially interesting, given that this was
someone whose interests are closely related to those of the Semitic
paleographers we've heard from.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
.
:-)
Not only has it not been proposed, it has already been stated clearly
that that is not what is sought.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
) have spoken against unification.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
that many
will never actually have to deal with.
I'm still completely unconvinced that the need for character folding is
a significant impediment.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
to need to fold characters, they're going to deal
with it not by UCA tailoring but by converting the Phoenician characters
(as they would more often with Latin characters) to Hebrew characters.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
presented?
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
not sure we've been given indication
of the former.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
of these scripts as being either obviously unified or
obviously distinct is
unlikely to get us anywhere. The identity very much depends on the
perspective of
the
observer.
That, more than anything else in this discussion, is clear.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font
be more or less costly than bad results in another).
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
not a relevant
counter-argument.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
of so far that
have PH glyphs encoded in the 0590..05FF block were developed by someone
who thinks PH should be encoded as a distinct script from square Hebrew.
Yes?
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
encoding *may* be warranted), we don't need to refer to Fraktur
any further to apply it to PH.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
,
then that might well suggest they were viewed as distinct.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
for the basic small
letter.
Whatever the character properties, it is certainly the case that U+207F
is used in phonetic transcription in analogous contexts to characters in
the Modifier Letters block.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows
the added complexity for text processing
that a
new encoding will introduce.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
spinning wheels on things that are irrelevant
in the long run.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
still waiting to hear even an
acknowledgement.
A further consideration is how the needs of users other than
paleographers can best be served.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
Joker
character will be required if playing cards are encoded,
Is there an expectation here that supporting the playing cards will
require polychromatic font technology?
Peter Constable
on the street use both?
(There may have been paleographers in the first century BC as there are
today. That shouldn't be construed as unqualified contemporaneous use.)
Peter Constable
anything additional that pertains to that issue.
Can we **please** discontinue this discussion of Fraktur in relation to
making decisions about PH.
Peter Constable
. There are others, however, who do not.
Can we agree to drop the discussion of Fraktur now?
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
be, handled in
Unicode, and how it should be dealt with in a Unicode proposal.
Check out what was done in Unicode 4.0 wrt Old Italic.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
.
versus
then you might have a case for proposing
variation-selector sequences.
Peter
Peter
Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font
Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
image005.jpgimage006.jpgimage007.jpgimage008.jpg
considerations must take into account the needs of all users:
Semiticists, and non-Semiticists.
Peter Constable
should *consider* providing it. But the further consideration is
whether those people can be served *without* it. If they would be served
by it and cannot be well served without it, *then* we conclude that UTC
should provide it.
Peter Constable
0x47
G 0x47
.
.
.
To
encode any different from this in Unicode to support MCW texts would have been
fairly bad news for the people that use it.
Peter
Peter
Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font
Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Constable
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 2:08 PM
[snip]
Hebrew MCS/ASCII MCS/Unicode
Sorry, I meant MCW.
PC
places as where ASCII and Unicode are defined.
Well, actually, it *is* interoperable within the sizeable community that
has adopted that convention -- they can and do interchange data using
this. You can find content using this representation in such places as
the Oxford Text Archive.
Peter Constable
seen it
done, however.
Peter Constable
some things repeated so much
I've missed them. Would you care to *summarize* all of your arguments
(one or two lines each) so I and others can be reminded (or learn for
the first time) just how many distinct points against the proposal you
have made?
Peter Constable
Could everyone please exercise good editorial practice on their
postings? It's ridiculous to have to scroll to the third screen-full of
text to find where the poster's comments begin.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
seen such a font. If you want to support the claim, you cannot simply
question how thoroughly Michael has searched -- it's not his
responsibility. If you know of such fonts, then please identify them.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows
that it was a useful thing to
do; but if there are *not*, then the unification-camp has little cause
for concern about existence of distinctly-encoded data.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
it online once Michael
has his content corrected. In the long run, it really is unhelpful to
have alternate sources for data. Inevitably, the mirrors get out of sync
as the owners move on to other interests, and inevitably someone points
to the copy, not the source.
Peter
Peter Constable
of the HTML versions of
codelists).
Surely it is not harmful.
I agree, it's not harmful. But I agree with Philippe, it's not
particularly helpful or necessary.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
One person wrote, regarding Qaak for Klingon:
It's a shame you didn't pick something that could be pronounced in
tlhIngan Hol, perhaps Qaap for pIqaD.
Identifiers are identifiers, not words.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
Even with a separate Phoenician script, it might be a good idea
to provide variation sequences
Hmmm, gives me an idea: For those people that want to unify, would it
help if all of the Phoenician characters were considered as variation
sequences of Hebrew characters, but for convenience we used
work since the ID
is something different.
(The ID appears to be a locale-independent reference name that is
structured in a way that allows it to be used in higher-level identifier
protocols, but in the context of ISO 15924, I would not call it the
ID.)
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization
that it be done carefully. And not to
think that bad data files can be relegated to cosmetics, which is what
you seemed to be saying.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
issue, but I don't understand why the dates don't match:
was Arab added on January 9 or May 1? So, they're not entirely
consistent.
Also, it appears you have not fixed a serious error in the plain-text
file: it is not well-structured. Some rows have 6 columns, and some have
7.
Peter
Peter
Property Value Alias would solve the
problem, but it really ought to be defined somewhere; and since it's not
mentioned in the standard, then it's status must be informative, and
that should be indicated.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows
*something* about them, else it's completely unclear
whether the reader is supposed to care about them or not, and what
they're supposed to be used for.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
in the file that's on the site now. If this is the
normative file, I'd suggest you fix it as soon as possible.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
thing is stability, but it
makes sense that the first and second columns be the symbolic code and
the numeric code, especially if this is *the* plain-text version and
normative reference.
Peter
Peter Constable
Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Microsoft Windows Division
of data is effectively determined by how processes
will interpret the data. A process won't see 6 columns one of which
contains nbsp;. It will see seven columns one of which contains
nbsp.
He's said the file has been fixed (though I don't know if he's posted
the fixed file).
Peter
Peter
for numbers (not the one in my example),
and any cultural formatting is done on the local system.
Peter Constable
how well this works, but at least the
name can, I think, be improved upon: given that definition, perhaps analytic
syllabary (as opposed to a fusional syllabary) would be a
better label.
Peter Constable
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