I can't find the old Tip of the Week (Year?) on the RunRev site. Maybe
they've given it a decent burial.
But this one seemed worth sharing.
Tonight in a late-night coding session I ran into a problem using a URL
argument. Chipp Walters gave me a tip that saved my bacon and will do
so many
Hello Jan, Hershel and All,
...or just enter
http://www.google.com/search?
as_sitesearch=lists.runrev.comnum=20q=postgresql in your prefered
Web browser...
Best Regards,
Le 20 juil. 04, à 21:52, Jan Schenkel a écrit :
--- Hershel Fisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tuesday, July 20, 2004, at
How do i unsubscribe to this news letter
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Hi Mark,
How do i unsubscribe to this news letter
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Point your browser to this URL:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
There you will find more instructions and that is also the right
According to the docs savingStandalone is only sent to a Main stack is there a message
for all library or stack files stacks?
Kevin
-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:
Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my
--- Derek Bump [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Alright. Everytime I make the height of my progress
bar 16, lock the location, and save and close the
stack, it reverts back to a height of 20 once the
stack is loaded again. There are no lines of code
anywhere in the stack or any other stack for that
I jut started to test Rev 2.2.1 (the 30 days trial version), and I face
a problem while using profiles.
I have a stack with 2 profiles. I use them to have different languages:
the Master profile for English, a second profile, called French,
for French language.
On MacOS X, I check the
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
--- Alex Tweedly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How can I find the current file position ?
I found
seek .. to set the
current
position (either abs or
relative)
read at N ... to read,
I am experiencing a odd behavior in Revolution 2.2.1. I have added the following code
to my default/only card.
/**
--private Internalbr
--br
[EMAIL PROTECTED] nothing
*/
on saveStackRequest
send
After doing this:
set the markerPoints of grc 2 to 0,0 cr 5,0 cr 5,5 cr 0,5
cr 0,0
This takes about 10 ticks to create 2500 boxes on my machine:
on mouseUp
put ticks() into t
put empty into tPoints
repeat 2500
put random(300)+410 into x
put random(400)+50 into y
put
Yes, it's a bug in the 2.2.1 standalone builder.
From Monte:
The fix is this:
Go through all the buttons in the profile section of the General card of
revStandaloneSettings and replace includedProfiles with
includeProfiles.
So...
1) open the Application Browser,
2) open the Standalone Settings
What about building a stand-alone runtime? That would require
compilation, correct?
On Jul 21, 2004, at 1:44, John Rule wrote:
Is there a way to force full compiling of a stack?
I haven't seen a response to this, so I will give it a try...
My assumption is that ALL scripts are interpreted 'on
Yes there is ; it allows you to run scripts saved as
plain text files, similar to how Perl works ; that's
why this version is often referred to as the 'cgi'
version -- however it works just fine as a
command-line interpreter.
To know more about how to use this command-line
version, have a
Hello,
I have a cgi application that calls a stack. Inside this stack, I have to
upload a file in a ftp server. I used to do, in another stack :
libURLftpUploadFile myFile,ftp://192.168.1.1/hello/hello;
But now that I am in a cgi, this command doesn't work anymore (Execution
error). I tried to
Hi All.
I've read the docs and see that to have a window of say 1100x750 scroll to
allow an area of 1100x2000 you group objects.
Now I have a problem with this. I need to have a window (1100x750 with
menus) that has scrollbars V+H.
If the window is resized to say 700x500 by dragging the
At 13:25 21/07/2004, you wrote:
Hi All.
This can be downloaded from www.gla.ac.uk/~rh82p/scroll.rev it is a window
with 2 scrollbars and a button to check the scrolling action.
Nothing else done to it.
Cheers
bob
I've read the docs and see that to have a window of say 1100x750 scroll to
allow
At 03:52 21/07/2004 -0700, Geoff Canyon wrote:
After doing this:
set the markerPoints of grc 2 to 0,0 cr 5,0 cr 5,5 cr 0,5
cr 0,0
This takes about 10 ticks to create 2500 boxes on my machine:
[snip]
Using ten graphics, it takes about 10 ticks to create 10,000 boxes using
10 graphics:
So then something like this attached to a button should work? It
doesn't seem to. I select a JPEG image file (I tried several different
ones).
on mouseUp
answer file Select an image file: as sheet
put it into x
if there is a file x then
open file x
read from file x until EOF
The only thing I cn think of right away is that you're
using Appearance Manager and that the Interface
Guidelines for the platform dictate the height of the
scrollbar to be 16.
Well, yes, this is the case. Except that the scrollbar height is growing from 16 to
20 pixels every time I close
Hi Everyone,
I'm delighted to announce Revolution 2.5 Beta for Windows and Mac OS X.
Linux and Mac Classic will follow shortly.
By definition, a beta test release is a test version and may not be
reliable. As such you should back up your work before using this version
and not use it with any
on 7/20/04 10:57 PM, Dan Shafer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I take offense when someone misses a chance to rib me.
Dan
On Jul 19, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
On Jul 19, 2004, at 11:21 AM, Mark Brownell wrote:
$5000, Sounds like Dan flies First Class.
...and is probably
Hi Kevin,
I'm that guy who uses SGI Irix (probably the only one, right?). I see that
development of new versions continues, and that is very good. But there
are still deficiencies in 2.2 for Irix that you may or may not be aware
of.
I don't know why, but ALL imported graphics are converted to
on 7/21/04 2:09 AM, Mark Davies at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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This is bug 1554. I've seen it happen most often when using the
variable watcher.
Ken Rabe
Erik Hansen wrote:
although the Trace is OFF, the tracedelay is
set as high as possible, and the breakpoint is
coded in, the Debugger still traces through
script code of its own volition.
compacting the
Maxence,
you must include libURL for that to work, also, I don't know if libURL
will be available at startup, you should check the documentation, you
can move your commands to a later handler in the command line like
openstack of your card...
cheers
andre
On Jul 21, 2004, at 11:15 AM, [EMAIL
Alex Tweedly wrote:
Taking positions and colours from an actual data structure (rather than
generating random points) I still get draw times for (10k points) under
20 ticks - feels very fast, but not instantaneous.
Compared to other vector programs that's pretty good. Try displaying
that many
In previous versions RR 2.1.2 I experience smooth edit scrolling. However, I am using
RR 2.2.1 and a majority of my RAD's editing and etc is jerky. Is anyone else
experiencing this problem?
Kevin
-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:
Any resemblance between the above
In a message dated 21/07/2004 16:33:36 GMT Daylight Time, K
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I am experiencing a odd behavior in Revolution 2.2.1. I have added the
following code to my default/only card.
on saveStackRequest
send compileAFX to this card
pass saveStackRequest
end
Just downloaded and installed the new 2.5B1. Looks really great!
I read in the release notes that an add-on for sqlite is in the works
from RunRev. Any word on when that will be available? I'm very
pleased about that. I had just downloaded sqlite yesterday and built
it on my Mac and was
At 16:50 21/07/2004, you wrote:
Just downloaded and installed the new 2.5B1. Looks really great!
I think so to.
Just Phoned heather with a Q? as well and I think I'll be buying a studio
license (need standalones). I cant get the browser thing to work (I'm sure
they are just uploading the
On Jul 21, 2004, at 12:50 PM, Gordon Tillman wrote:
Just downloaded and installed the new 2.5B1. Looks really great!
I read in the release notes that an add-on for sqlite is in the works
from RunRev. Any word on when that will be available? I'm very
pleased about that. I had just downloaded
Andre I agree:
On Jul 21, 2004, at 11:01, Andre Garzia wrote:
i've being awaiting that for couple months already, I think it will be
great and if they deliver SSL security then we'll come to a new
security age
I'm just spec'ing out a new application designed to be used by
physicians in a
At 6:26 AM -0400 7/21/2004, K wrote:
I am experiencing a odd behavior in Revolution 2.2.1. I have added
the following code to my default/only card.
[...]
on saveStackRequest
send compileAFX to this card
pass saveStackRequest
end saveStackRequest
The funny thing is the when I hit apple-S the
Hi Folks,
is anyone here using Database Query Builder on Rev 2.2.1? I am using it
and using it to display the contents of a query in a nice listbox
field. The query should return 3 rows (it does that on phpMyAdmin, the
same query). It returns only one row on rev. Also I am making use of
the
It's not working for me for a long time... I am not on suspended mode
but the Cmd+S never works! Like the shortcut vanished, but since I make
use of altArchive as my save button replacement, I am not very worried.
andre: Trap The Developer!
On Jul 21, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
At 1:25 PM +0100 7/21/2004, Bob Hartley wrote:
I've read the docs and see that to have a window of say 1100x750
scroll to allow an area of 1100x2000 you group objects.
Now I have a problem with this. I need to have a window (1100x750
with menus) that has scrollbars V+H.
If the window is
Stumbled across this oldie-but-goodie today and couldn't resist sharing
it with my fellow Revolutionaries.
Enjoy but don't try to understand the code, OK?
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6271/compu023.html
~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of
At 17:37 21/07/2004, you wrote:
At 1:25 PM +0100 7/21/2004, Bob Hartley wrote:
I've read the docs and see that to have a window of say 1100x750 scroll
to allow an area of 1100x2000 you group objects.
Now I have a problem with this. I need to have a window (1100x750 with
menus) that has
I once did some consulting work for a company that paid their programmers
based on the number of lines of code they wrote in a day!
Paul Looney
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On Jul 21, 2004, at 1:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I once did some consulting work for a company that paid their
programmers
based on the number of lines of code they wrote in a day!
Paul Looney
That really amazes me...
andre
PS: and what about recursive code self modifying scheme code...
Someone posted:
--on mouseDown
-- if (the controlKey is down) then
-- beep
-- put the long name of the target
-- --set the clipboardData[text] to the long name of me
-- end if
-- pass mouseDown
--end mouseDown
And it gave me an idea on how to give nine-to-five reports like
this works for me:
on mouseUp
answer file
if the result = then
set the data of me to URL (binfile: it)
put the Data of me into image 1
end if
end mouseUp
On Jul 21 2004, at 15:25, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
So then something like this attached to a button should work? It
doesn't
Hi Frank,
here is a shorter one:
on mouseUp
answer file Select an image file: as sheet
if there is a file it then
put url(binfile: it) into image Logo
end if
end mouseUp
So then something like this attached to a button should work?
It doesn't seem to. I select a JPEG image file (I
Here is the on-line help entry for the message.
saveStackRequest message
Sent to the current card when the stack is about to be saved.
on saveStackRequest -- delete all cards but the first
repeat with x = the number of cards down to 2
delete card x
end if
pass saveStackRequest -- or
Tom Cole wrote:
I am converting a HyperCard stack to rev and I wanted to go beyond the
old classic Mac 9-inch screen size. I put a centerme command in the
openstack script, but I would also like to size the screen automatically
to a size that is standard these days. I don't know how to do that.
At 1:35 PM -0400 7/21/2004, K wrote:
So, should I add this one to Bugzilla?
Sure, if it's reproducible. (It's helpful to create the smallest
stack you can that shows the problem, so if you can make a stack with
just saveStackRequest...)
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 5:49 PM +0100 7/21/2004, Bob Hartley wrote:
I tried this one
on resizestack
set the rect of group your group name here to the rect of this cd
end resizestack
Try this:
on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight
set the width of group your group name here to newWidth
set the height of group your
on 7/21/04 9:01 AM, Andre Garzia at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think it will be
great and if they deliver SSL security then we'll come to a new
security age
Cheers
Andre
Finally, we can talk about encryption. The reason I didn't use Dar Scott's
great idea and source code, the boxes,
Tom,
On Jul 21, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Tom Cole wrote:
I am converting a HyperCard stack to rev and I wanted to go beyond the
old classic Mac 9-inch screen size. I put a centerme command in the
openstack script, but I would also like to size the screen
automatically to a size that is standard these
Ooops!
On Jul 21, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Devin wrote:
More common is 1028 X 764.
^^^
That should have read 1024 X 768. Ah, the joys of dyselixa!
Devin
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sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sez [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
--- Alex Tweedly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How can I find the current file position ?
I found
seek .. to set the
current
position (either abs or
relative)
read at N ...
Why would one write repeat loops when getting paid more for inline code?
It was a mess!
Paul Looney
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I downloaded the 2.5 beta this morning and went immediately to the debugger.
Lots of improvements! Thanks!
Not to appear ungrateful but
Is there some technical reason why the buttons in the debugger can't have
command keys on OS X? You know, command I for Step Into, command T for Trace,
On Tuesday, July 20, 2004, at 09:18 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
--- Kenneth Rabe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
You are probably experiencing a memory leak.
Once the memory size of
the IDE reaches a certain point, it slows down
dramatically and only
restarting the application will help.
which point?
The more
Thank you, that seems to work great!
On Jul 21, 2004, at 13:35, Klaus Major wrote:
Hi Frank,
here is a shorter one:
on mouseUp
answer file Select an image file: as sheet
if there is a file it then
put url(binfile: it) into image Logo
end if
end mouseUp
So then something like this
On 7/21/04 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
is anyone here using Database Query Builder on Rev 2.2.1? I am using it
and using it to display the contents of a query in a nice listbox
field. The query should return 3 rows (it does that on phpMyAdmin, the
same query). It
At 7:40 PM +0200 7/21/2004, Klaus Major wrote:
You can hide it then, we just need it to create a group, empty
groups are not possible...
Sure they're possible. A group doesn't need to contain any other
controls. (It usually does, of course, but you can create a group
without anything in it.)
Hi Jeanne,
At 7:40 PM +0200 7/21/2004, Klaus Major wrote:
You can hide it then, we just need it to create a group, empty groups
are not possible...
Sure they're possible. A group doesn't need to contain any other
controls.
It usually does, of course, but you can create a group without
anything
What about building a stand-alone runtime? That would require
compilation, correct?
No...in fact, if you do not password protect your stacks, any end-user can
open a stand-alone in a text editor and read the scripts. All the
stand-alone builder does is copy the engine to the end of your main
I agree. I specify a minimum of 800X600 (to allow for the fact that
many hospital computers still have minimally-configured desktops.
On Jul 21, 2004, at 1:54 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Tom Cole wrote:
I am converting a HyperCard stack to rev and I wanted to go beyond
the old classic Mac 9-inch
Paul,
I agree wholeheartedly. I've made a formal feature request for this on
the Bugzilla database (#1864).
Devin
On Jul 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I downloaded the 2.5 beta this morning and went immediately to the
debugger.
Lots of improvements! Thanks!
Not to appear
At 19:40 21/07/2004 +0200, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
hi Klaus
i had a look at your stack and you are just using the wrong approach...
Do this:
Remove everything but the lonely button, yes all the nice and almost
unused scrollbars :-)
Then group that only button!!!
You can hide it then, we just need
At 9:25 PM +0200 7/21/2004, Klaus Major wrote:
Good to know!
I was blinded by the fact that there is no tool/menu-item for that...
It is only possible by script, right?
It is easier by script, but actually you can also do something like this:
1) Create a button
2) Group it to create a group
3)
There is a small problem with the command key combinations you propose
Devin. At least two of those key combinations already have standard
usage on the Mac: Cmd-I for Get Info and Cmd-A for Select All.
FWIW, I'm not sure I'd like to see them mapped to Get Info in one
place in the IDE and
Hi Jeanne,
At 9:25 PM +0200 7/21/2004, Klaus Major wrote:
Good to know!
I was blinded by the fact that there is no tool/menu-item for that...
It is only possible by script, right?
It is easier by script, but actually you can also do something like
this:
1) Create a button
2) Group it to create a
At 20:51 21/07/2004 +0100, you wrote:
At 19:40 21/07/2004 +0200, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
hi Klaus
Ooops should have been Klaus and Jeanne
rude of me there.
Bob :-)
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Hi Bob,
hi Klaus
i had a look at your stack and you are just using the wrong
approach...
Do this:
Remove everything but the lonely button, yes all the nice and almost
unused scrollbars :-)
Then group that only button!!!
You can hide it then, we just need it to create a group, empty groups
are
Thank you for you very usefull reply Bill
I have cocoaMySQL here but it keeps quiting, so I use my phpmyAdmin
from my web host control pannel, it's all integrated so no fuss here.
Also, we used to have a nice show all records on that database part
of the inspector, I used that to create
How do you open a stack without running any of the code in it? Specifically
not to run any of the automatic database query connections as I have one
with an error and it locks the stack up on opening and won't let me do
anything including fix the error.
Bill,
If you want to open a stack (or do anything for that matter) with out
triggering any handlers, you can do this:
lock messages
open stack my stack
...
unlock messages
The key of course being to lock messages.
HTH.
How do you open a stack without running any of the code in it?
Specifically
Bill,
lock the messages before opening the stack, this way it will not send
your openStack and openCard handlers, that should do the trick!
Cheers
andre
On Jul 21, 2004, at 5:50 PM, Bill wrote:
How do you open a stack without running any of the code in it?
Specifically
not to run any of the
Klaus Major wrote:
Do this:
Remove everything but the lonely button, yes all the nice and almost
unused scrollbars :-)
Then group that only button!!!
You can hide it then, we just need it to create a group, empty groups
are not possible...
Set the h- and v-scrollbar AND the lockloc of that
On Jul 21, 2004, at 2:02 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
There is a small problem with the command key combinations you propose
Devin. At least two of those key combinations already have standard
usage on the Mac: Cmd-I for Get Info and Cmd-A for Select All.
FWIW, I'm not sure I'd like to see
On Jul 21, 2004, at 2:41 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 21/7/04 7:26 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I downloaded the 2.5 beta this morning and went immediately to the
debugger.
Lots of improvements! Thanks!
Not to appear ungrateful but
Is there some technical reason why the
Re: The 2.5 debugger
From: Kevin Miller
Subject: Re: The 2.5 debugger
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:42:03 -0700
On 21/7/04 7:26 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I downloaded the 2.5 beta this morning and went immediately to the
On Jul 21, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Wouter wrote:
And why not Command-r when used in debug mode (if possible without
closing the window)?
Surely one does not want to group objects during debugging.
Oh man, I hate doubling-up command key combos like that. What about
enter like is normally used for a
Actually, I have experienced that error. I
cleared all breakpoints and exited Revolution
and it just went away.
didn't work
NOTE: Many times it occured in
handlers/functionss that I used value() for
invocation.
thanks, i will look atr that
Erik Hansen
=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Folks,
If you look into the documentation on Databases on the rev docs under
About connecting to and using SQL Databases you'll see an article
about Database Query Builder, under the topic Displaying automatic
query data you'll that there's a specific part detailing how to use
Show All to
Hmm...
When ask or answer is used in sheet form under Mac OS X (10.3.4),
if I switch to a different window while the sheet is opened, then click
on a field on the card/stack/window the sheet is attached to, I can
start typing into that field.
A sheet is supposed to be a document-modal dialog:
On Jul 21, 2004, at 5:47 PM, Wouter wrote:
But do you agree not to close the window unless specified/asked or
don't you mind all this windowflashing?
Oh, I agree. The reason I said enter is because I use it all the time
in the script window anyway, and enter is commonly used for Run. If
it
It looks like the there is some kind of problem in the db library. Mac
OSX 10.2
put revOpenDatabase(PostgreSQL,127.0.0.1,test,postgres,)into
myDbid
revdberr,invalid database type
With 2.2.1 works fine.
The document window a nice peace of work, but the filter with doesn't
scroll to the entered
At 3:07 PM -0600 7/21/2004, Devin Asay wrote:
Step Into is Space. Step Over is Option space. Command-. is abort. We
didn't do Run and Trace as we thought these were likely only to be wanted
once. However, Command-w will run, though it also closes the window.
I didn't know about these. Are they
At 2:00 PM -0700 7/21/2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
While this can be done via script, there is currently no way to
interactively create objects in groups other than by setting the
editBackground to true, which gives a side-effect that's usually
undesirable in which the group's scrollbars and all
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
At 2:00 PM -0700 7/21/2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
While this can be done via script, there is currently no way to
interactively create objects in groups other than by setting the
editBackground to true, which gives a side-effect that's usually
undesirable in which the
Obviously the two commands that are the most important are Step Into and
Abort.
Space and Option Space are utterly unintuitive. Command Period is also
unintuitive but at least it is traditional.
A GUI where you have to go to the documentation (or get emails from the CEO -
by the way, Thank You,
What is the correct syntax for send when the handler to be called expects a reference?
Kevin
-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:
Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental.
Any
On Jul 21, 2004, at 6:00 PM, K wrote:
What is the correct syntax for send when the handler to be called
expects a reference?
I don't think you can do this with send.
If you have control of the handler, it can return (yes, even in a
command) and the caller can get 'the result', if you don't use
Does anyone else not like the updated interface for Revolution? After I launched the
beta I immediately felt dissapointed about the upcoming release.
Please don't find the following to be flaming. It's nearly what I don't like about
the beta version and is mearly there for constructive
I'm very glad to see that controllers of audio/MIDI-only QT players of
Mac OS X standalones produced with Rev v2.5b1
function properly!
-Kurt
=
We'll be the country's toast
And rule from coast to coast,
Without legality but that's
just a technicality!
Ira
On Jul 22, 2004, at 12:06 AM, Derek Bump wrote:
3. Does this make it easier for people to post destructive stacks? In
my experience, if I were to download a program from within Revolution,
I would trust that it won't do anything bad to my computer. I'm
worried that Revolution Online allows
On Wednesday, July 21, 2004, at 11:06 PM, Derek Bump wrote:
Does anyone else not like the updated interface for Revolution? After
I launched the beta I immediately felt dissapointed about the upcoming
release.
Please don't find the following to be flaming. It's nearly what I
don't like about
Jan,
Have you actually used the ODBC driver with the Query Builder? Since my bug
#511 doesn't seem to be getting any attention, I was wondering if ANYONE
ELSE has this same problem, or if anyone has ever even attempted it. I
would at least like confirmation that it is a real bug or not!
Jay
oh boy that means: All your stacks are belong to us... paranoia?
not that it cannot be done, but hey, if you type open stack url
http://www.mySweetVirii.net/theStack.rev; in your message box it will
also be a problem... that is not something new with revOnline, if you
going to execute
At 3:14 PM -0700 7/21/2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
The key word was interactively, such as a user of a drawing
progrram would expect to do with one of the graphic tools.
Hmmm. I guess I was thinking one would fake this - let the user draw
out an object, then on mouseRelease, create it in the
Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
At 3:14 PM -0700 7/21/2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
The key word was interactively, such as a user of a drawing progrram
would expect to do with one of the graphic tools.
Hmmm. I guess I was thinking one would fake this - let the user draw out
an object, then on
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