Right well guys, I can see that we have had enough of this thread! As
you all know, politics, religion and cheese are banned from being
discussed on this list.
Just for the record, in case Sarah is feeling uncomfortable, I think
it was me he called slimy (by implication, if not directly).
Oh, come on, we're just getting to the cheese and crackers;-)
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:00 PM, wrote:
> PLEASE close this thread ! ! ! !
>
> Matthias
>
>
> Original Message ----
> Subject: RE: Interesting blog post - comments anyone? (01-Dez-2009 9:42)
>
In line with this thread, it would have to be smoked;-)
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> Oak-smoked or mature, please :-)
>
> Judy
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Kay C Lan wrote:
>
> Wensleydale?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Judy Perry > >wrote:
>>
>> What this thread nee
PLEASE close this thread ! ! ! !
Matthias
Original Message
Subject: RE: Interesting blog post - comments anyone? (01-Dez-2009 9:42)
From:Randall Reetz
To: runrev260...@m-r-d.de
> Wow, I just found this post. So I will respond.
>
> I say what I believe. P
Oak-smoked or mature, please :-)
Judy
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Kay C Lan wrote:
Wensleydale?
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
What this thread needs is Scotch.
Oh, and cheese ;-)
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Wow, I just found this post. So I will respond.
I say what I believe. Period. I haven't, in this case heard anything that
would lead me to change anything I have written in this thread (except typos of
course). I would send that ticket. Just as I said. I would have that person
watch peop
Wensleydale?
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> What this thread needs is Scotch.
>
> Oh, and cheese ;-)
>
> Judy
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
> Cripes! Aspirin, quick, somebody.
>>
> ___
> use-revolution maili
What this thread needs is Scotch.
Oh, and cheese ;-)
Judy
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
Cripes! Aspirin, quick, somebody.
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Maybe not, but it helped a former student who took my course when it was
Hypercard-based to find Rev. That's one more user than the company would
otherwise have had.
Judy
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Scott Rossi wrote:
If you have to inform people of the history, I'd say the history has little
value
Much more smoke.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> All decent IDEs have a robust set of programming support, and resource and
> project management affordances. What matters, beyond the obvious
> differences defined by the language an IDE supports, and what therefore sets
> o
All decent IDEs have a robust set of programming support, and resource and
project management affordances. What matters, beyond the obvious differences
defined by the language an IDE supports, and what therefore sets one IDE above
another, is how well an IDE matches the personality of its langu
Randall,
your suggestion that GM should "have sent a plane ticket to that blogger.
"Please be our guest for a few days and meet our staff and get to know our
product from the inside out. You will have full candid access to our top
developers and customers." Although I think you made a HUGE mistak
On 12/1/09 8:59 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
My god. An action feels slimy, not a person! Do I seem like a someone who
doesn't speak my mind, that says one thing and means another? If I wanted to
even so much as imply that sarah, who I do not know, is herself, some sort of
person or another, do
On 12/1/09 7:19 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
Scott Rossi wrote
Rev has been around for years now --
I think it's quite capable of standing on its own, without the crutch
of a
bygone development tool to prop it up.
But comments by those ignorant of the history imply that revTalk is a
new kid on
This is getting annoying and way OT.
This thread is becoming too emotional and confrontational. Can't we talk
about Rev and code?
s
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My god. An action feels slimy, not a person! Do I seem like a someone who
doesn't speak my mind, that says one thing and means another? If I wanted to
even so much as imply that sarah, who I do not know, is herself, some sort of
person or another, don't you think I would have said so directly
No matter what bells and whistles you heap on xtalk, what separates it from the
other languages (which of course have the same bells) is the human-ness of the
xtalk syntax and the grock-ability of the card/background/stack object
hierarchy. The bells are polish and fit, but the essence is the g
Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote:
> Scott Rossi wrote
>> Rev has been around for years now --
>> I think it's quite capable of standing on its own, without the crutch of a
>> bygone development tool to prop it up.
>>
> But comments by those ignorant of the history imply that revTalk is a
> new k
Scott Rossi wrote
Rev has been around for years now --
I think it's quite capable of standing on its own, without the crutch of a
bygone development tool to prop it up.
But comments by those ignorant of the history imply that revTalk is a
new kid on the block and will come and go like so man
The use of that word and words like it are what everyone objects to in
reference to Sarah.
Bob
On Nov 30, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> slimy
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Why the threatened continence? Why the need to frame this
conversation as having anything to do with a question of the
viability of RunRev?
This thread started with a call to debate a journalist who asked some
questions about the veracity of some rather strident marketing
statements made
On Nov 30, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
Integrity. Transparency of intent.
This thread is done for me.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Amen.
Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgr...@comcast.net
iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
On Nov 30, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
Rev has been around for years now --
I think it'
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> I mean ANY form of loyalty. ALL LOYALTY is based on the perception of
> belonging which is always defined by exclusivity. It is the friendly face
> put on every negative trait exhibited by humans: nepitism, racism, sexism,
> religious and
On 11/30/09 10:20 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
Id like to apologize to everyone who I have treated roughly and
without proper respect over the last several years.
Reciprocated. ;-)
Well, I'll look a real heel if I don't bow my head here as w
As for the direct inheritance hypercard owes to smalltalk, if you don't see it,
you are not recognizing the huge difference between pre and post object
thinking in programming. That dan winkler chose to use the word "talk" in
hypertalk was a strong wink to alan kay and his smalltalk (the first
On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
Id like to apologize to everyone who I have treated roughly and
without proper respect over the last several years.
Reciprocated. ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Ok, here is my labored rebuttal. I haven't checked, but I think I correctly
said that hyperCARD was invented by atkinson. I never exposed any dislike of
the run-rev product (i am a fan as well!). My point about integrity and truth
was well expressed and clearly argued. The fact that the prod
No. The "ramblings" only served to point out that your point was irrelevant
because you were making it to a group who all found the original post to be of
interest. Only you were offended. That seems to me unavoidable.
Bob
On Nov 30, 2009, at 9:05 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> Did your rambling
Did your ramblings and indirection sufficiently derail my point? And you are
dead wrong on all of your statements. Talk to the meat of a statement or don't
talk. Anything else is obvious rhetorical maneuvering. Lawyer?
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OMG the aliens have stolen your sensibility! Your original post has been
countered by virtually everyone! Doesn't that wave a yellow flag in your head
somewhere? You stand alone on this, and for good reason! If you don't want to
post on the blog, then DON'T POST ON THE BLOG! But DON"T revile Hea
I tried to post, but daggumit I have to register AGAIN because it's ZDNET UK!
Bah! Forget it.
Bob
On Nov 25, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:
> I just came across this:
>
> http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,100567,10014516o-2000458459b,00.htm
>
> Thought it would interest you gu
In 1987 Apple introduced a product based on the genius of SmallTalk that
it called HyperCard.
I've always been baffled by the comparisons to SmallTalk. Message passing,
perhaps, but the syntax couldn't be more different.
What back-room finagling prompted the MetaCard people to change their n
> I am simply and obviously questioning
> the integrity of the original intent of the original post in
> this thread (coming as it did from a paid employee charged
> with customer relations no less). But mostly my comments are
> general and concern the slow but steady disregard of
> integrity
Mikey wrote: The HC comparison is exactly what brought me here. Otherwise I
would have ignored RR. I suspect there are many old-school HC fans that are an
easy audience.
Ayup. I got Rev in the first place because it looked like just what I
wanted--a cross-platform version of Hypercard. I
I disagree with the "SHHH! DON'T MENTION HC!" sentiment. The HC comparison
is exactly what brought me here. Otherwise I would have ignored RR. I
suspect there are many old-school HC fans that are an easy audience.
--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, G
On 11/30/09 7:35 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
Loyalty aside, IMO the entire Hypercard comparison and reflection needs to
end and go away. Revolution is not Hypercard, and I don't see how comparing
Rev to a dead product invented 20+ years ago serves either the product or
its potential users. I for on
On 11/30/09 7:13 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
I mean ANY form of loyalty. ALL LOYALTY is based on the perception of
belonging which is always defined by exclusivity. It is the friendly face put
on every negative trait exhibited by humans: nepitism, racism, sexism,
religious and every other form
Recently, Randall Reetz wrote:
> It would be instructive here to place run-rev in historical and genealogical
> perspective. In 1987 apple introduced a product based on the genius of
> smalltalk that it called hypercard.
> ...
> Lets keep some perspective here. If rev wants loyalty, then at the
True, true, and unrelated.
My take on the same scenario is that Apple had a great product, and Supercard
and Metacard after them. They all just dropped the ball. RunRev came along
picked up that ball and have been running with it ever since--despite what I
perceive to be major obstacles along t
Dear all,
please, could we close this thread and come back to more important things?
Matthias
Original Message
Subject: RE: Interesting blog post - comments anyone? (30-Nov-2009 18:15)
From:Randall Reetz
To: runrev260...@m-r-d.de
> I mean ANY form of loyalty.
I mean ANY form of loyalty. ALL LOYALTY is based on the perception of
belonging which is always defined by exclusivity. It is the friendly face put
on every negative trait exhibited by humans: nepitism, racism, sexism,
religious and every other form of superiority. Nobody joins a group to ass
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> Yes, such a debate is natural and unavoidable and healthy (even when it gets
> nasty). Has nothing to do with the intent of my original post. I am simply
> and obviously questioning the integrity of the original intent of the
> original
Am I to interpret that statement as meaning the user comments that
were posted in response to the blog entry somehow lack integrity,
simply because Heather brought the original post to our attention? If
that IS what you are saying, then I take offense at such an
intimation. Nobody told me w
Hi
Absolutely.
I'd simply like Rev to become more popular so as to allow RunRev to
provide a better product.
btw..
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/a9617/ask_does_anybody_use_runtime_revolution_here_how/
regards
alex
Petrides, M.D. Marian wrote:
Worse still. Its bad PR.
Yes, such a debate is natural and unavoidable and healthy (even when it gets
nasty). Has nothing to do with the intent of my original post. I am simply
and obviously questioning the integrity of the original intent of the original
post in this thread (coming as it did from a paid employee char
I have used xtalk continuously since a year after hypercard was introduced. I
saw nothing in the slashdot blog post that was technically specific to rev
(excepting of course the wild claims rev has made of its product).
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Hi Randall,
My intent in replying is not to say you're "wrong" or even to disagree with
you... just to point out that Heather's only request was if one felt like
posting to "keep it positive" -- in the sense of being respectful toward the
*blog author*, not being positive about Revolution.
H
Worse still. Its bad PR.
In your opinion. In my opinion, I think it's nice to see people who
actually USE a product come to its defense.
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Worse still. Its bad PR. Imagine general motors sending out a call to arms
when ever a comedian or critic posted a joke about the caprice. I would have
sent a plane ticket to that blogger. "Please be our guest for a few days and
meet our staff and get to know our product from the inside out.
There is no way I would ever post a request for comments before offering my
own, and backing them up with why I fell the way I do. Hidden rhetoric is the
great attractor comes from the anonymity of the web. People have used this
method throughout time, but familiarity really gets in the way of B
On Nov 29, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
The slippery (or in this case "invisible") slope of "gorilla" PR is
powerful especially and only because it sneeks so silently and
politely under our BS radar. So called "multi-level" marketing
proponents have known this forever. Sell to
The slippery (or in this case "invisible") slope of "gorilla" PR is powerful
especially and only because it sneeks so silently and politely under our BS
radar. So called "multi-level" marketing proponents have known this forever.
Sell to "friends" and your effectiveness skyrockets. Any activi
I've sent an apology to Randall for making fun of his post.
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On Nov 29, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Marty Knapp wrote:
> Personally, I felt no compulsion to defend Rev because they let us know there
> was a debate going on at slash dot. Neither was I offended by that. When I'm
> getting ready to make a purchase (software or otherwise) I very much want to
> read w
IMHO, a good things would be to describe what is the purpose of this slashdot
thing, no?
The few times I have I have visited the site, the posts seemed as strange to me
as when my elder son talks biotechnology to me.
But maybe this what make revolution different from what those people (i.e.
Le 29 nov. 2009 à 21:20, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :
>> The idea that the customer services manager of a company
>> would enlist that company's own customers in a public debate
>> over the merits of that company's product and the rather easy
>> to debase claims it made of its product... Well it j
> The idea that the customer services manager of a company
> would enlist that company's own customers in a public debate
> over the merits of that company's product and the rather easy
> to debase claims it made of its product... Well it just feels
> a little icky.
Randall,
I can appreciate
Here's a good interview that discusses some of the same issues as the slashdot
thread. (The only difference being that she knows what she's talking about.)
http://zathras.de/angelweb/xtalkinterview-jeanne-a-e-devoto.htm
If anyone at slashdot was really interested in runrev they would have crashe
On Nov 29, 2009, at 8:40 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> The idea that the customer services manager of a company would enlist that
> company's own customers in a public debate over the merits of that company's
> product and the rather easy to debase claims it made of its product... Well
> it just
On 11/29/09 6:52 PM, Jim Bufalini wrote:
Randall Reetz wrote
The idea that the customer services manager of a company would enlist
that company's own customers in a public debate over the merits of that
company's product and the rather easy to debase claims it made of its
product... Well it
Frankly, I welcomed the opportunity to put in a good word for Rev.
Every little bit of positive publicity makes it more likely that Rev
will "live long and prosper"--and that's good news for all of us who
use Rev professionally and as hobbyists.
On Nov 29, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Randall Reetz
Personally, I felt no compulsion to defend Rev because they let us know
there was a debate going on at slash dot. Neither was I offended by
that. When I'm getting ready to make a purchase (software or otherwise)
I very much want to read what real world users are saying about it (as
opposed to p
Jim, you are diplomatic!
-
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco
http://houseofcubes.com/disco.irev
2009/11/29 Jim Bufalini
>
> Randall Reetz wrote
>
> > The idea that the customer services manager of a company would enlist
> > that company's own customers in a public debate
Randall Reetz wrote
> The idea that the customer services manager of a company would enlist
> that company's own customers in a public debate over the merits of that
> company's product and the rather easy to debase claims it made of its
> product... Well it just feels a little icky. I am a huge
The idea that the customer services manager of a company would enlist that
company's own customers in a public debate over the merits of that company's
product and the rather easy to debase claims it made of its product... Well it
just feels a little icky. I am a huge fan of xtalk and any bridg
Heather,
I hope the following is tame enough for you, although I suspect it may not be.
:-)))
Marian
I'm a full-time physician educator with a medical school faculty appointment
and no formal training in programming. I've been using Revolution since it
first came out and have been able t
I just came across this:
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,100567,10014516o-2000458459b,00.htm
Thought it would interest you guys! If you feel the urge to post a
comment, the blogger is inviting debate - just keep it positive...
it's probably best not to wade in guns blazing if you dis
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