I was mostly answering the question: did government ever force any industry to
go metric. My answer is yes they did, although they have ALSO refused to work
in metric with industries that did so on their own. There is no clear policy
or plan for overall metric conversion and what isolated po
The camel's nose may be in the tent, but is anybody noticing?
Olive oil is also marked in rounded English. The labeling I've seen usually
follows the pattern:
17 fl oz (1.06 pint) 500 mL
I also saw one that was mis-marked:
17 fl oz (1 pint 0.9 fl oz) 500 mL.
The 17 fl oz was previously mark
As you suggest, Jerry, one individual on one website seems to believe that
liquid fuel in the UK is dispensed in "air miles" rather than litres. I think
that his views can safely be ignored.
I can assure you that UK law still states that litres MUST be used whenever
liquid fuels are sold by re
Many of the packages that have grams as the secondary unit put the grams in
decimal form instead of rounding to the nearest whole number. I've seen 14 oz
of product labeled precisely as 396.9 g instead of 397 g or even upped to 400
g. I believe the FPLA rule which requires the use of metric on
I've noted round-number metric on a bunch of stuff in supermarkets, but my
impression is that most stuff is still-round number conventional units.
You're right that varies by product type. I've noticed that on olive oil
too; could be that, like wine, imports are a big chunk of that market and
John
Your theory holds water, as further purusal of the diary throws up the
following:-
"UK-specific" (ie non-US) references *Boxing Day* *Solicitor*
"US-specific" (ie non-UK) references *Medicare number*
All three of these references would be valid in Canada, I believe.
--- On Tue, 3/3/09
As I read the FPLA and UPLR, the metric must be expressed in three figures,
four is not permitted. (There are exceptions for two digits under 100 mL or 100
g, and for unneeded zeroes to the right of decimal. Apart from those
exceptions, neither four nor two is equal to three or permitted.
T
This article
http://www.gvnews.com/articles/2009/03/06/breaking_news/00mileposts0308.txt
reports that Arizona Dept. of Transportation will spend $1.5 million of its
Federal economic stimulus money to remove the metric distance signs along a 100
km stretch of I-19. This will include removal of
I take a softer, more philosophic view. They are likely metric internally,
even if they are concerned about customer reaction. The law allows either unit
to be in first position.
I consider the internal conversion more significant than the label decision.
However, "Net Wt 3.17 oz (90g)" say
Domestic civil engineering.
From: Jeremiah MacGregor [mailto:jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 21:32
To: carlet...@comcast.net; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Re: [USMA:43390] RE: Mistaken blather from a correspondent on another
list
What kind of engineer?
Along with practically every other specified quantity, milk package sizes are
being deregulated in the UK on 11th April.
http://www.nwml.gov.uk/fileuploads/Docs/Legislation/SFQ/Government_Response_on_Specified_Quantities_for_Pre-packages_Jan_09.pdf
and
http://www.nwml.gov.uk/fileuploads/Doc
Good luck with all of this; my local Trader Joe's has an on-staff
calligrapher who makes up the shelf signs, and she consistently shows
amounts under a dollar as ".79 cents". Yes, about four-fifth of a penny,
and with a naked decimal point even. When this was mentioned to the store
manager he di
My local Tesco in Grimsby weighs ONLY in metric units for trade purposes (at
the deli and fish counters primarily). Yes, the customer-use weigh scales are
dual marked, with metric as the primary (outer) scale, and imperial as the
secondary (inner) scale. All our other local supermarkets (Morri
Boxing Day is a legal holiday in Canada and the UK. Solicitor is used in
Canada, although not as much as the UK. Medicare is unknown in Canada, which
has a federally prescribed provincially run universal health system (e.g. in
Ontario, it is OHIP - Ontario Health Insurance Plan, this was 10 ye
If he is "very conservative," he no doubt favors very literal interpretation of
the Constitution (especially 1st and 2nd amendments) and decries liberal judges
who interpret to other than what it says. S, how does he feel about the
section that grants Congress the say in establishing the sys
When I was in the UK in June 2005 our friend took us driving from Southsea
to Stonehenge. On the motorway the distance to the next exit was noted on
the sign as "1 m". Funny, even though that looked metric, I didn't see it
all that close.
Carleton
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:ow
I think he works mainly on railroad projects, which due to legacy concerns
are pretty much in colonial units.
cm
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 11:16
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:43412
A pint of milk certainly doesn’t seem like a lot, so I wonder why they
delivered such a small size. In our house we go through three large Costco
bottles a week. (These are the rectangular four-liter bottles that Costco
fills with only one US gallon.)
Carleton
From: owner-u...@colost
Thank You Ken for the enlightenment. I'm curious about the use of the mpg when
fuel is dispensed in liters. The calculation is complex and I can't see most
people going through the bother. So, in your opinion how does the average
person come to know his/her mpg?
I was told a few weeks back
Stephen Humphreys appears to claim that soft drink measures are given in
imperial on receipts in UK bars.
Could I ask other UK contributors to comment upon this statement - not from the
measurement aspect, but from the receipt point of view.
How many bars have you been in recently where a rec
It sure looks strange that the rounded grams are in the parentheses and the
non-rounded ounces are outside.
It must be a foreign product that is produced in rounded metric but for some
reason the company was lead to believe that to sell it in the US the English
must come first.
Jerry
___
The example I gave came from a bag of M & Ms.
I guess you can complain to the company first and forward them a copy of the
law. If they ignore you then I would ask the USMA who to contact concerning
the infringements of the law. Then you can also complain about your shaving
soap.
Jerry
Lee Roberts appears to claim that I am making up the fact that fl oz is
commonly seen on bar receipts.May I respectfully ask other contributors to
raise this if they believe him (and euric)?
Otherwise I would rather back out of the insultfest.
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 08:48:45 -0800
From: k_cooper
Carleton
As John Frewen-Lord states, you will see imperial measurement used for the
majority of UK roadsigns.
Normally, official signs giving distances don't use an abbreviation for miles.
A sign would say "York 10" rather than "York 10 m", York 10 mi" or "York 10
miles"
You obviously spot
Ghirardelli is as American as apple pie, founded in San Francisco in 1852. We
also have American P&G making a lot of round metric products, with European
Unilever and Nestle more likely to round to conventional units.
From: Jeremiah MacGregor
Sent: 03/07/2009 8:51 AM
To: U.S. Metric Associat
Lee and euric appear to say that I have said that fuel (petrol) in the UK is
dispensed in 'air miles'.
They have also named my home town Tesco (again, probably to try to raise
tension for me) and have said that I am making up that one of the server
(staff) side scales has a portion of screen th
So while the government wastes millions on signs that do no harm in being
there, tens of thousands are losing their homes and are forced to live in tent
cities. I don't understand why this is called a stimulus package when it is
more like a "throw as much money as you can into a black hole and
Carlton - Motorway signs also show "Town name XX m" - eg "London 23 m"Also
there are signs that say "Services XX m"And there are park (A big "P") signs
that have X mThis is on top of the ones you remember (the 1 m and 1/2 m
countdown signs). Sometimes those countdown signs might have 1/4 m
Yet the company might "offend" someone who would consider it a mockery of
American traditions if the English is not in rounded numbers. It doesn't
matter what number comes first, it matters what number is in a sensible format.
Passing the metric only FPLA will not assure that the English will b
I believe that the federal enforcement arm for federal consumer law is the
Federal Trade Commission. For more on the FTC, see
http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/about.shtm.
Paul
- Original Message -
From: Jeremiah MacGregor
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: 07 March, 2009 10:55
Subject:
My car, a Citroen C5 for the UK market, can calculate in imperial (mpg) or in
metric (L/100 km). I keep it in metric, especially as I got used to metric in
Canada, where both distances and fuel are given in metric values. My C5, over
the last 7000 km, is averaging 7.5 L/100 km, not bad for a 2
By law you have the right for the store to sell you the product as the price is
marked, even if it is a typo. Around Christmas time I was able to buy the
entire remaining stock (24 bags) of a local grocer's pistachios that were
marked as $2.49 per 454 g when they were suppose to be on sale for
The answer would depend on which way Congress would go I suppose. What if they
settled the matter in favor of English units?
Obviously that is why the guy is upset about metric. He and his company are
not getting metric jobs and they may be hurting financially. So rather then
become more p
Are you sure it only contains one US gallon if it is in a 4 L container? It
just may be labeled as one gallon to keep it simple. Have you verified the
fill to know for sure?
Jerry
From: Carleton MacDonald
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Saturday, March
Thank you again for the enlightenment.
From: Ken Cooper
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 11:48:45 AM
Subject: [USMA:43417] Re: USC units spread to the UK - and no-one notices!
Stephen Humphreys appears to claim that soft drink meas
Even though they try to convert to imperial for you, how close do them come to
getting it right? Do they use a calculator to do the conversion or do they
just give you a guess? What do they usually say when you order in metric?
Do you get a receipt of your purchase and is it metric only or dua
There is no insultfest. A second person has already verified Ken's comments
concerning the sale of gasoline by the liter and the use of metric only in
supermarket. That is two to your one.
You keep promising to back out, but you keep breaking that promise.
Why not provide proof if you don
I haven't participated in these exchanges (arguments?) within the USMA email
list. However, I had never became conversant with the terms just mentioned
such as "fifth" even though I am now age 73. I guess it meant a fifth of a
gallon.
Anyway I just checked three cold bottles of wine in our
To be honest Jerry, I have not actually checked whether they get it right - I
simply look at the scales (in metric), and ignore their conversions. They
never use a calculator - these are busy deli counters, so I assume they guess.
When I order in metric (e.g. 500 g of pork and egg pie), they w
Are the dual height restriction signs common in the UK? Haven't most of the
metric been wiped out by ARM?
Jerry
From: Ken Cooper
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 12:05:44 PM
Subject: [USMA:43421] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "
The only one who mentioned names was you. Your name was never brought up
except by you.
Yet you keep insisting on calling us by other names. Is this your standard way
of debating issues? Try to insult the opponent as much as possible and then
claim you were insulted instead?
Can you pleas
More and more height (and to a lesser extent, width) signs are becoming dual
marked. The imperial is legally required, the metric is optional. But too
many EU registered trucks were becoming stuck under low bridges (often on
routes which are not usually used by big trucks - blame sat nav for t
The only way this discrepancy will be settled is with pictures.
Jerry
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 12:14:56 PM
Subject: [USMA:43425] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish
sales in the UK
The "second person" said that fuel was sold by the litre I have not disputed
that.I asked whether people really believed you that I thought that fuel was
sold by the air mile.That's extremely different altogether.
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 09:54:31 -0800
From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com
Subj
Please direct this sort of message to me directly and off the list.What sort of
purpose does it serve on the list?This is spam generating spam - and now I'm
partially guilty (although I'm trying to justify myself against charges of lies
and falsehoods which I feel is only fair - hence the reque
1) On another site, Stephen Humphreys wrote "I wonder sometimes if you realise
how extreme you have become"
I replied ""Says the man who cannot admit to seeing litres on a petrol pump!"
The conversation continued...
Stephen "I have yet to find anyone who pulls up with the intention t
You hit the nail on the head with Sat Nav
Lorries are being sent through villages etc to get around motorway issues etc.
Some very old and weak bridges are becoming damaged by this phenomena - with
some of these old bridges having historic importance.
From: j...@frewston.plus.com
To: usma@colost
Jeesh
Is this of any perverse entertainment value to anyone?
The text you lift is off another site which allows for more robust slightly
more off topic debate.I have always respected the sentiment of this site and
not brought that style here.
Yet you still seem to prove that I do not believe fue
On 2009/03/08, at 4:53 AM, Norman & Nancy Werling wrote:
I haven't participated in these exchanges (arguments?) within the
USMA email list. However, I had never became conversant with the
terms just mentioned such as "fifth" even though I am now age 73. I
guess it meant a fifth of a gallo
Shampoo's an excellent example. The Designer brands (Pantene, Nexxus,
l'Oriel, etc) are all rounded-SI (ifp) while the Joe-the-Plumber brands
(Head & Shoulders, VO5, etc) are rounded-IFP (SI).
Guess it depends on what market demographic they're appealing to.
Nat
-Original Message-
From
I am still confused and befuddled!
On Mar 6 , at 2:22 PM, John M. Steele wrote:
I'm not sure it is the same article (no table in it) but the same
newspaper, and concept car:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/06/new-kia-no-3-concept-car-stars-at-geneva-show/
The 15 kW 105 Nm rati
Pat,
Before the US converted wine and spirit bottle sizes to metric, the legal
requirements were Customary, and the fifth (of a US gallon) was the main size.
All the sizes (both pre and post metric) can be accessed by following the links
to legislation on the USMA laws page. The 750 mL bottle
I would puncuate a bit differently if I were writing it:
". . . with Kia's Gamma 1.6-litre gasoline engine, mated to a 15 kW, 105 Nm,
AC-synchronized electric motor, a CVT transmission, and the new ISG (Idle Stop
& Go) system."
The "AC" goes with "synchronized." Remember a journalist wrote it
My Costco has them too. I refuse to buy them.
Costco introduced a 4 L container in one part of the country. There was even
an article in "Metric Today." However, in many areas they are using the
container but only filling to 1 gallon. The metric marking (3.79 L if I
recall) is consistent w
I, for one, would prefer to complain nicely to the company and see if they will
fix it. The discrepancies that I have observed are so minor that I would not
wish to cause a problem for a brand I like over some minor point.
It would have to be flagrant and deceptive for me to go to the FTC.
And here's a perfect example of how Stephen uses half truths to deceive.
1) He states "Motorway signs also show "Town name XX m" - eg "London 23 m"*
Apart from the fact that the motorway network is a tiny part of the UK total
road length (see below), he fails to state that the "London 23 m"
I would mainly agree with John.
The main difference is that I keep my computer display in imperial. My employer
(like the vast majority of UK firms) pays expenses based upon mileage rather
than klicks travelled.
--- On Sat, 3/7/09, John Frewen-Lord wrote:
From: John Frewen-Lord
Subject: [U
Dual height signs are quite common. In my personal experience, I would guess at
over 50%, but would have no idea on a UK-wide basis.
There is no possible claim that they are not legally placed upon the highway
(unless the imperial sign is missing), so ARM would be leaving themselves wide
open
--- On Sat, 3/7/09, John Frewen-Lord wrote:
The receipts are ONLY in metric - that is the law
I would disagree, John. It would be perfectly legal to mark a supplementary
imperial indication to the primary metric quantity on the receipt.
The fact that this isn't done by the supermarkets
This was on the M3 north of Southampton.
Carleton
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of
Ken Cooper
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 12:06
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:43421] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish
sales in
So, Stephen, would you agree that dual marking of UK bridge heights is the way
forward? If not, why not?
--- On Sat, 3/7/09, Stephen Humphreys wrote:
From: Stephen Humphreys
Subject: [USMA:43444] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish
sales in the UK.
To: "U.S. Metric Associa
--- On Sat, 3/7/09, John M. Steele wrote:
However, on spirits, the US also requires 750 mL and forbids 700 mL. The EU
appears to require 700 mL and forbids 750 mL. I am not sure whether Customary
is even allowed as supplemental,
In the UK (as in the rest of Europe) the standard spir
It is harder to keep from spilling the milk with this design. There is also
a seal across the opening, which, after you unscrew the top, has to be
peeled off.
The reason they went to this design was that it doesn't have the open space
at the top the old jugs did; as a result, while the height
They are current, because they are currently out there (it costs a lot to
replace signs – we have some here in Maryland that are over thirty years old,
and people can still find their way). I would guess that if the sign has to be
replaced, it would be updated.
Wish the bickering would go d
Yes, there are exceptions for export.
>From the USMA laws page, here are all the sizes allowed for wine:
4.72 Metric standards of fill.
(a) Authorized standards of fill. The standards of fill for wine are the
following: 3 liters, 1.5 liters, 1 liter, 750 milliliters, 500 milliliters, 375
mill
Yes Carleton
I could show you pictures of signs that are currently out there that are over
100 years old, but (unlike Stephen), I wouldn't imply that those signs comply
with current requirements.
There's an old bottle of Bells for sale in my local specialist Scotch Whisky
shop. It's mark
Nothing I have said below is untrue.Secondly - the UK motorways carry the most
traffic.Thirdly I could have mentioned other things - like the matrix signs
that now default to miles and minutes for 'travel to' points. Mainly because
we are discussing the use of 'm' here (which is used precisely
I'm sending this (and another behind it) to the USMA list, so you can get a
better idea of the discussion between Andy the conservative civil engineer
and some of the other members of the "All Aboard" passenger railroad list.
I hope I didn't get too much wrong in what I wrote.
Carleton
The other discussion from a good friend who lives in the UK east of
London.
From: all_abo...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:all_abo...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Carleton MacDonald
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 18:26
To: all_abo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [A_A] OT: metric
Dennis,
Unfo
'm' for miles is commonplace on UK motorways as I have already described
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 14:48:42 -0800
From: k_cooper1...@yahoo.com
Subject: [USMA:43464] Re: Jerry's questions regarding "imperial" fuel & fish
sales in the UK.
To: usma@colostate.edu
Yes Carleton
I could show you pic
John, you got me thinking about what you say below.This would work entirely
with my discovery that Tesco 'server side' scales have that 'equivalent to xx
lb xx oz' on the screen.It makes a lot of sense if that's generally what they
do (perhaps policy) then having that bespoke info just makes it
Dear Carleton,
Well written. I liked your style and your polite approach very much.
Cheers,
Pat Naughtin
Geelong, Australia
On 2009/03/08, at 10:37 AM, Carleton MacDonald wrote:
I’m sending this (and another behind it) to the USMA list, so you
can get a better idea of the discussion between
Where do I start!!!
Stephen said "Nothing I have said below is untrue"
Please provide proof of a UK parking sign that states "P 1 m"
I've never seen one. They are not prescribed in the TSRGD, therefore they must
have been specifically authorised by the Secretary of State.
Oh, and even
WellI just deleted about 50 emails from the USMA over the past 24
hours...maybe even more.
Sheesh.
Can you provide some evidence to back up this assertion please?
Through work, I regularly examine the "server side" of Tesco scales at fish
counters & have never seen a scale that has information like this on the
displays.
I do recall you stating that a scale in a medical practice had a "plas
I was pleasantly surprised to see a science article on the CNN web site use
only metric units (no conversions) but for one glaring exception. :-(
Here 'tis:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/03/03/eod.popsci.species/index.html
Still, it's a nice step forward.
-- Ezra
Stephen,
Do you approve of the use of metric units to be displayed on road signs,
especially with regard to height and width signs? Would you support a complete
changeover of UK roads to metric only signage? Why or why not/
Jerry
From: Stephen Humphreys
T
I notice a complete avoidance of making a statement admitting that gasoline
/petrol is sold by the liter/litre in the UK and that every pump that you use
to fill your tank dispenses and prices per liter/litre only.
Asking others who they believe is not the same as stating what units you
encou
This picture is very interesting. Ken asked a few weeks back how one can tell
the difference between a 500 mL glass and one that is 568 mL. If the chalk
board did not say so, would the British tourist know they were getting a 500 mL
pint and not a 568 mL pint? Most would insist it was a Briti
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