On Jan 26, 6:51 am, Alfonso de la Guarda alfons...@gmail.com wrote:
As an architect I have the power to choose the framework, but I would
support it in more technical reasons, so that by sharing experiences,
I will be happy to read their views, especially in management,
deployment and DAL /
On Wednesday 26 January 2011 10:53:34 cjrh wrote:
On Jan 26, 6:51 am, Alfonso de la Guarda alfons...@gmail.com wrote:
As an architect I have the power to choose the framework, but I would
support it in more technical reasons, so that by sharing experiences,
I will be happy to read their
I'm oscillating between the two, myself. I find django more verbose
than it needs to be and as the number of the applications grows in
your project you'll be switching between files with the same name till
your finger (or mouse) hurts.
Web2py on the other hand has a poorer documentation and it
2011/1/26 rif feric...@gmail.com
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
Where did you find this phrase? what context?
In the book, chapter 11, Deployment Recipes.
Of course, this isn't true because Web2py can connect to multiple DB
servers.
I think Massimo was trying to stress the importance of having all the
data in one place, to be able maintain integrity of keys and
relationships, and make sure queries
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
I think this quote is out of context. I think it refers to GAE deployment.
I'll check it later.
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 3:30 PM, villas villa...@gmail.com wrote:
In the book, chapter 11, Deployment
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:30 AM, villas wrote:
In the book, chapter 11, Deployment Recipes.
Of course, this isn't true because Web2py can connect to multiple DB
servers.
I think Massimo was trying to stress the importance of having all the
data in one place, to be able maintain integrity
If someone has access to correct it, he/she should explain it more in
the book itself rather to spiritualize it here (as in: it is one
spiritual db server expressed by multiple physical entities).
On Jan 26, 4:35 pm, Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com wrote:
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:30 AM, villas
Hi Alfonso,
web2py reduces your development and maintenance costs, compared to
Django but you will find more difficult to find developers (it is
newer and there is less of them). If you have developers already that
is not an issue.
Django assumes template builders are not programmers and does
I thought about this some more and I think you should assemble two
teams (the web2py team and the Django team), ask them to choose a
captain, and give both teams one assignment to complete in one day
(give them a model and a point them to a layout online, no ajax). See
who can do best in the
Massimo,
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
This does appear to negate one of Web2py's best features, concurrent
access to multiple DB servers. How about changing the book to read as
follows (incorporating Jonathan's comment)??
Even if
2011/1/26 Massimo Di Pierro massimo.dipie...@gmail.com
The DAL tries to be as close as possible to SQL. The ORM
tries to stay as close possible to an Object model. To me that is
trying to put a circle into a square. When it fits great, some times
it does not fit.
Massimo
Quote of the
few people mention this, don't know why but it is huge.
ORM's are a computational vietnam.
it troubles my mind, how come so many good programmers don't have this
notion and ORM's are actually very well seen.
the relational model has its own way of working, its mindset, its
optimizations. the
On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45:45 AM UTC-5, villas wrote:
Massimo,
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
This does appear to negate one of Web2py's best features, concurrent
access to multiple DB servers. How about changing
chmpion of what?
object dabatases are the champions storing... objects
relational dbms are the champions storing... relational data
use the right tools right.
On Jan 26, 4:59 pm, Lars Hansson romaby...@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, but if everyone sits around waiting for the champion to appear
To be fair, the most popular option right now is SQLAlchemy, an ORM.
DAL appears to be a minority approach. So, ORM must be good at
something right?
To get web2py out of the PR's ditch, I think it's best to refrain from
commenting on perceived weaknesses of Django and other technologies.
On
This is a good comment. I suggested a while ago that Web2py should
have more slick supports for designing themes/templates. I think most
programmers will work on the back end with emacs, vi, or their
favorite editors, whereas the designers will probably favor the front
end interface/IDE. But
Hi Anthony,
As you say, the context does soften that sentence.
However, the existing wording is not only wrong, it also gave someone
on this list some unnecessary cause for concern.
Regards, D
On Jan 26, 5:29 pm, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45:45 AM
Just to clarify. An ORM is not a object database (like ZODB). Django
does not have an object database.
ORM and DAL are simply to ways to access RDBMs.
On Jan 26, 12:07 pm, blackthorne francisco@gmail.com wrote:
chmpion of what?
object dabatases are the champions storing... objects
Where is this sentence? It is clearly wrong.
On Jan 26, 9:45 am, villas villa...@gmail.com wrote:
Massimo,
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
This does appear to negate one of Web2py's best features, concurrent
access to multiple DB
On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:19:34 PM UTC-5, villas wrote:
Hi Anthony,
As you say, the context does soften that sentence.
However, the existing wording is not only wrong, it also gave someone
on this list some unnecessary cause for concern.
Oh yes, I agree -- that sentence should
On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:29:59 PM UTC-5, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
Where is this sentence? It is clearly wrong.
Chapter 11, opening section, right before the server cluster diagram:
http://web2py.com/book/default/chapter/11?search=multiple+web+servers
I do not think the ORMs are better at something functionally. They are
syntactic sugar.
It boils down to whether a Table is a class (ORM) or an instance (DAL)
and a row is an instance of the table class (ORM) or an instance of a
record class (DAL).
If a row is an instance of a table class, then
On Jan 26, 8:19 pm, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote:
To be fair, the most popular option right now is SQLAlchemy, an ORM.
DAL appears to be a minority approach. So, ORM must be good at
something right?
No. The number of people that support a thing has no bearing on that
thing's correctness.
Just for embroil more...
...is possible in some way to use django template system, or jinja2 in
web2py?
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:54 PM, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 26, 8:19 pm, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote:
To be fair, the most popular option right now is SQLAlchemy, an ORM.
Yes just import it, call it in the action and return the string they
generate.
On Jan 26, 2:05 pm, Albert Abril albert.ab...@gmail.com wrote:
Just for embroil more...
...is possible in some way to use django template system, or jinja2 in
web2py?
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:54 PM, cjrh
You could definitely use Jinja2 if you so desired, but honestly I do not see
any reason why you would, you lose the ability to byte compile your views.
(well technically, you would end up having to write your own middleware that
would compile the jinja2 templates into bytecode) but then you
. there is a real difference
in maintaining 70+ models in web2py vs SQLAlchemy... especially when these
models need to be shared between external scripts.
Is this because DAL has not support for circular dependencies and
SQLAlchemy does?
But seriously, I think an application with 70+ models is
DAL supports self references. Circular references that are not self
references are not supported because they are a bad idea.
Massimo
I remember reading about self referencing and the mess of organizing
the relationships associated with it. If this is a problem then it
can simply be resolved by running a topological sort of the
dependencies. As long as, there is no circular referencing, it'll be
a directed acyclic graph, and
That is just one of the very small reasons out of the entire haystack
the advantages of an ORM are much too numerous to even begin to account
I do not think circular references are a bad thing... it is a pointer after
all... one thing I miss from C programming is the ability to control
One thing that worries me is the issue of scalability, for example,
this project will work with django or web2py, but no large deployments
web2py to bringing information on how to behave in environments where
there are 50 Requests per second with the problems associated with
using a
On Jan 26, 2011, at 9:45 AM, villas wrote:
Massimo,
Even if there are multiple web servers, there must be one, and only
one, database server.
This does appear to negate one of Web2py's best features, concurrent
access to multiple DB servers. How about changing the book to read as
I am trying to get to the bottom of it. My server does not show the
problem but I hope to be able to reproduce it so I can debug it.
Massimo
On Jan 26, 9:47 pm, VP vtp2...@gmail.com wrote:
One thing that worries me is the issue of scalability, for example,
this project will work with django
As a programmer, I found Web2py more appealing out of the box.
I did a fair chunk of the Django tutorial, but they started on a bad
note by showing me how to add an admin interface and considering it to
be some hot stuff (for crying out loud, that's a pretty high level
feature and one that you
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