Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Greetings all, I kind of like Mike¹s idea, and probably there is room for a couple alternatives. By default for classroom or enterprise deployment, I would think that Kieran¹s template for /Application, /Developer, /Developer/Hudson, and /Library/Tomcat makes perfectly good sense.For user sp

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Ok - I convinced this company to get a mac. That gave us a three year old macbook running snow leopard. so... where is the all-in-one installer located for snow leopard? Thanks James On Oct 10, 2010, at 4:08 AM, ISHIMOTO Ken wrote: > My installation is in my MacBook Pro is: > > Harddisk 1

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

My installation is in my MacBook Pro is: Harddisk 1 : System and default Application that comes with OS X Harddisk 2 : My User Folder with ~/Application (All Application with Eclipse) 1. That makes it more easy to switch to a new machine 2. Make clones from System & Data int different Storage, fa

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

When I was first trying out eclipse, I was on a multi user machine with eclipse in /Applications. I couldn't work out why sometimes a user could install plugins and sometimes a user couldn't. As a Mac user I never expected it to be important which user had installed the original application in

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

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Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Le 2010-10-07 à 12:21, John Huss a écrit : > > what are the other seven? > > They are less relevant to this conversation, but I think they are something > like: > > 4) Thou shalt not use Maven > 5) Thou shalt not use Jar frameworks > 6) Thou shalt not develop on Windows > 7) Thou shalt not us

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 7/Oct/2010, at 9:37 AM, Christos Konidaris wrote: > a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), > b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? Um, option a) is asking for troubles because of the previous mentioned permissions problems when multiple users attempt to install/update plugins

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

If he wants to move it somewhere else then he's probably an advanced user. When I install Eclipse it ends up in my ~/Downloads folder. Then I drag it to where I want it to reside in /Developer/Applications. I have write permissions to that folder. I've seen the Finder ask the user to authentic

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

My thought exactly. The new user would not be sure if it will break something by moving things around. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:45 PM, John Huss wrote: > YOU CAN DO THAT??? > > ;-) > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Ricardo J. Parada wrote: > > If someone wants it somewhere else, then may

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

YOU CAN DO THAT??? ;-) On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Ricardo J. Parada wrote: > > If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from > ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. > > :-) > > > On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: > > How about

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. :-) On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: > How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: > > a) for All Users (put it in /Appli

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Sch

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

> what are the other seven? > They are less relevant to this conversation, but I think they are something like: 4) Thou shalt not use Maven 5) Thou shalt not use Jar frameworks 6) Thou shalt not develop on Windows 7) Thou shalt not use WO 5.4... oops, nevermind Someone else will have to help wit

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

s. These are people working > in Quark, Indesign. I had to make the /Applications/Quarkxpress world > writable or it wouldn't work correctly. > > I don't know that this is so 'bad'. > > Ted > > --- On Thu, 10/7/10, David LeBer wrote: > >&g

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

> Just for my education, now. > > So when I setup my clean machine from Apple, I should not use the default > user and be create a separate user? not not give the new user admin rights? yep -- the user i setup when i create a machine is "Administrator," then I make a regular user who does not h

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

That's the more secure way... So...I've managed a few macs in my day, and created custom imageslots of IT work. Generally speaking, you don't let "business" users run as admins. Not that they CAN"T do admin things (with an admin account ID and password), just that they're not an admin off

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

what are the other seven? On 2010-10-07, at 11:50 AM, John Huss wrote: > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: > I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. > > Mike's commandments: > > 1) Thou shalt not write to /Applications > 2) Thou shalt not put an alias

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Just for my education, now. So when I setup my clean machine from Apple, I should not use the default user and be create a separate user? not not give the new user admin rights? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:50 AM, John Huss wrote: > 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user > ___

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Well, quite frankly I don't care for kittens. Allergic, in fact. :) On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: > Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I > would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect > to permissions. I

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: > I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. > Mike's commandments: 1) Thou shalt not write to /Applications 2) Thou shalt not put an alias on the desktop 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user If thou shouldst break thes

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

10/7/10, David LeBer wrote: > From: David LeBer > Subject: Re: TurnKey Installer Components > To: woproject-...@objectstyle.org > Cc: "WebObjects-Dev Mailing List List" > Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 11:21 AM > > On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: &

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: > Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I > would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect > to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this > point. I nom

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

> I agree with John. I understand that there could -possibly- be issues with > permissions in /Applications, but I've never run into them, and I don't > recall anyone posting to the list with those types of problems. > > I can write to my Eclipse directory just fine in /Applications. Installing

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: > That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, > either of which is kind of evil. > > ms > >

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I agree with John. I understand that there could -possibly- be issues with permissions in /Applications, but I've never run into them, and I don't recall anyone posting to the list with those types of problems. I can write to my Eclipse directory just fine in /Applications. Installing plugins h

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: > I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single > problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue.

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I don't Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:24 AM, John Huss wrote: > How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? > Probably not many? Probably zero. > Who is the target audience for this? New users. > Where would they expect to find it? Find the ecl

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: > David, > > I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) > > In summary 2 good re

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Preven

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I think a double-clickable wrapper is a rocking idea. On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:00 AM, David LeBer wrote: > On a complete tangent: > > Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. > > > > Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? > > On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Yep, same here ... keeping everything (Eclipse, WO Roots with different versions, framework install locations, etc.) means painless migrations to new machines, which for speed-thirsty devs can mean once per year usually. On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:55 PM, Q wrote: > > On 07/10/2010, at 10:38 AM,

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Le 2010-10-07 à 10:24, John Huss a écrit : > How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? > Probably not many? I don't. > Who is the target audience for this? People new to WebObjects. > Where would they expect to find it? From wocommunity.org and the wiki

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? Probably not many? Who is the target audience for this? Where would they expect to find it? John ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-d

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

btw -- a little pro-tip ... download the eclipse tar.gz yourself and drop it in ~/Sites, then change the script to point to http://localhost/~you/eclipsetar.gz. then you can spit out new eclipse folders really quickly -- you just take the hit to download plugins (which isn't too bad). ms

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

it's in the "not pretty but gets the job done" category ... ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:00 AM, David LeBer wrote: > On a complete tangent: > > Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. > > > > Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? > > On 2010-10-07,

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I don't share my machine (and I kind of doubt anyone does), but it does feel dirty to have an installer that puts a writable application into /Applications. We really only have two choices here: 1) /Applications/Eclipse.app and world(ish) writable 2) ~/Applications/Eclipse.app and slightly unty

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On a complete tangent: Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: > I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as > I can remember, so I

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: >

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal / Applicati

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I think Lachlan's point about permissions is the reason to do this ... If you put it in /Applications, you WILL run into problems, because the natural permissions are to be o-w. Because Eclipse has no concept of privilege escalation, it would then be impossible for you to install new plugins wit

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to w

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 07/10/2010, at 11:38 AM, Stephen R. Smith wrote: > FWIW - I'm also a /Developer/Applications fan. > > I'm the only user on my machines, so I don't use ~/Applications at all. > Office and Photoshop aren't really dev apps, so they logically belong in > /Applications. Conversely, Xcode and Ecli

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: >> I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to >> co

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

> I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to > copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory > instead. > > If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I > would have no reason to keep it there also.

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 07/10/2010, at 10:38 AM, Stephen R. Smith wrote: > FWIW - I'm also a /Developer/Applications fan. > > I'm the only user on my machines, so I don't use ~/Applications at all. > Office and Photoshop aren't really dev apps, so they logically belong in > /Applications. Conversely, Xcode and Ecl

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

So it sounds like the majority is ~/something ... I think ~/Applications is a reasonable choice. ms On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Q wrote: > I install eclipse in ~/Developer/Applications/ > > On 07/10/2010, at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: > >> And what is the consensus on the location for Ec

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I install eclipse in ~/Developer/Applications/ On 07/10/2010, at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: > And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? > > Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... > > /Applications > /Developer > other? > > Thanks, > jeremy > > O

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I put dev apps in ~/Applications and everything to do with development in ~/Developer Regards, Kieran On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: > And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? > > Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... > > /Appli

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Like Lachlan, I install eclipse in ~/Applications. If you have more than one user on your Mac using eclipse, but only one installation of eclipse, you have all sorts of permissions problems when each one is installing their own plugins. Tim On 07/10/2010, at 7:55 AM, Lachlan Deck wrote: > On

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Thinking like a complete noob, I'd put it in Applications. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: > I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the > config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration > folders are inside the

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 07/10/2010, at 8:48 AM, Mark Ritchie wrote: > On 6/Oct/2010, at 2:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: >> I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the >> config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and >> configuration folders are inside the bundle. > > Ic

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

On 6/Oct/2010, at 2:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: > I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the > config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration > folders are inside the bundle. Ick, clearly NOT someone who erases and installs every new

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration folders are inside the bundle. On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: > And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? >

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: > And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. > > John > > On

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: > > Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : > > > So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed > in the past (some components optional) > > >

Re: TurnKey Installer Components

Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : > So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in > the past (some components optional) > > 1) Eclipse (whatever) > 2) WOLips (stable) > 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) > 4