Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

Regardless of what happens with the developer post, we should definitely try to evaluate what technical expertise we have among the community and how we can make use of it. Organising a hackathon or something similarly nerdy is a good step in that direction, especially if it includes an opportun

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18/06/2012 15:41, Thomas Morton wrote: On the other hand you have a major asset in that several community members do have this experience - and might be interested in a robust volunteer driven model. Contracting the specific expertise needed, whilst developing a robust community department

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 22:09, Thomas Morton wrote: > Yes, this is basically what I am driving at. If the long term aim is to > expand the department we should outline those goals *now* and hire someone > with those goals at the forefront. +1. If it were anything to do with me, I'd say hire a CTO who ca

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 21:55, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 18 June 2012 20:58, Charles Matthews > wrote: > > But Tom M. hit the nail on the head: don't go the dogsbody route. I.e. > > if anyone argues as Tom D. does, which strikes me as reasonable, don't > > define the job in such a way as to offer zero c

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18/06/12 21:28, Michael Peel wrote: P.S. Charles's experiences with being a WMUK employee aren't particularly relevant here since WMUK has changed*significantly* since then. Charles, I would very much recommend visiting the WMUK office and having a chat with Jon about our current managemen

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 20:58, Charles Matthews wrote: > But Tom M. hit the nail on the head: don't go the dogsbody route. I.e. > if anyone argues as Tom D. does, which strikes me as reasonable, don't > define the job in such a way as to offer zero career development. Make > it a real job, from the start.

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 21:41, Chris Keating wrote: >> >> MW development is a whole job in itself. From experience; it's hard to >> work meaningfully on a major project (such as that)  whilst also doing >> smaller bits of work (like outreach, sysadmin, smaller development tasks). > > > Why is that, out of

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 21:41, Chris Keating wrote: > >> MW development is a whole job in itself. From experience; it's hard to >> work meaningfully on a major project (such as that) whilst also doing >> smaller bits of work (like outreach, sysadmin, smaller development tasks). >> > > Why is that, out o

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

> > > MW development is a whole job in itself. From experience; it's hard to > work meaningfully on a major project (such as that) whilst also doing > smaller bits of work (like outreach, sysadmin, smaller development tasks). > Why is that, out of interest? But anyway - Mike has posted the Board

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 21:28, Michael Peel wrote: > P.S. Charles's experiences with being a WMUK employee aren't particularly > relevant here since WMUK has changed *significantly* since then. Charles, I > would very much recommend visiting the WMUK office and having a chat with Jon > about our cur

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

Hi all, So, there are many questions here, and I'm afraid that I don't have the time to answer them all right now in the detail they deserve. :-( So this is a reply to some of the key aspects, and I'll try to follow up on the others when I have a bit more time available. I'm very aware that th

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 20:46, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 18 June 2012 20:38, Thomas Morton wrote: >> Finding make work is inefficient. > > I'm not talking about finding make work. I'm talking about real, > productive work that you hadn't thought of before but that inevitably > comes up as soon as you hav

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 20:38, Thomas Morton wrote: > Finding make work is inefficient. I'm not talking about finding make work. I'm talking about real, productive work that you hadn't thought of before but that inevitably comes up as soon as you have scope to do it.

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

Finding make work is inefficient. Especially if you hire them knowing you have 0.8 FTE, but find they lack the experience to perform a quarter of that. It's better to figure out the work in order of importance (I.e we must achieve this by year end, or this is not so important) ten figure out how t

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 19:39, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 18 June 2012 19:15, Charles Matthews > wrote: >> On 18 June 2012 18:12, Thomas Morton wrote: >> >> [things that make sense to me] >> >> I'd also like to see quantification. Is the current provable need 0.7 >> of a person or 1.5 persons? I'm still

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 19:15, Charles Matthews wrote: > On 18 June 2012 18:12, Thomas Morton wrote: > > [things that make sense to me] > > I'd also like to see quantification. Is the current provable need 0.7 > of a person or 1.5 persons? I'm still enough of a mathematician to > think that it's unlikely

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 18:12, Thomas Morton wrote: [things that make sense to me] I'd also like to see quantification. Is the current provable need 0.7 of a person or 1.5 persons? I'm still enough of a mathematician to think that it's unlikely to be a whole number (and I guess Tom D. is too). Charles

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 17:48, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 18 June 2012 15:41, Thomas Morton wrote: > > One of my experiences in around the last 18 months is that smaller > companies > > (which we are, lets face it) start out contracting technical work > because it > > is significantly cheaper. > > Is it?

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 17:44, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On 18 June 2012 15:28, Charles Matthews > wrote: >> No amount of corporate jargon and/or penny-pinching can cover up not >> getting the right person for the job because the position is a vaguish >> proposition. So I think Tom has a point. > > I don't

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Re: Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 16:57, Andy Mabbett wrote: > Brilliant self-marketing ploy there, Harry! ;-) It's a standard politician ploy, accidentially leaking your plans. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 15:41, Thomas Morton wrote: > One of my experiences in around the last 18 months is that smaller companies > (which we are, lets face it) start out contracting technical work because it > is significantly cheaper. Is it? I don't know about developers specifically, but generally sp

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 15:28, Charles Matthews wrote: > No amount of corporate jargon and/or penny-pinching can cover up not > getting the right person for the job because the position is a vaguish > proposition. So I think Tom has a point. I don't think the problem is a vague position. It's our first t

[Wikimediauk-l] GLAM WIKI conference organisation meeting 22 June 2-5pm London

Dear All, Wikimedia UK is having the GLAM WIKI 2012organisation meeting on Friday *22 June from 2-5pm*. Please do let me know if you can attend in person (Wikimedia UK office), or remotely. We will be discussing the timeline of jobs that are available t

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Re: Recruiting for the Developer

Brilliant self-marketing ploy there, Harry! ;-) On 18 June 2012 15:18, HJ Mitchell wrote: > Just wanted to say your comment about needing a community liaison was spot > on. It's something I've been thinking about for a while, but I don't want to > plug it too hard because I'd give serious thought

[Wikimediauk-l] Fw: Re: Recruiting for the Developer

One day, I will manage to send an email to the intended recipient, and only the intended recipient! Until that day comes, I meant to send this to the list! Harry - Forwarded Message - From: HJ Mitchell To: Stevie Benton Sent: Monday, 18 June 2012, 15:25 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l]

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

I can see why one would prefer having a single person in-house, though. In the long term, it's likely to be cheaper, and people (be it the community, the board, or other staff) have a named person they can go to with queries about technical things. A permanent member of staff might also be more

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 15:28, Charles Matthews wrote: > On 18 June 2012 15:17, HJ Mitchell wrote: > > I may be wrong, but I suspect the idea is to aim high, hoping but not > > expecting that somebody will apply who meets all the criteria, and > failing > > that, that we'll get somebody who meets most of

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 15:17, HJ Mitchell wrote: > I may be wrong, but I suspect the idea is to aim high, hoping but not > expecting that somebody will apply who meets all the criteria, and failing > that, that we'll get somebody who meets most of the criteria and could pick > up or be trained in the the

[Wikimediauk-l] Re: Recruiting for the Developer

Just wanted to say your comment about needing a community liaison was spot on. It's something I've been thinking about for a while, but I don't want to plug it too hard because I'd give serious thought to applying if it ever came up! Best, Harry From: Thomas

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

I may be wrong, but I suspect the idea is to aim high, hoping but not expecting that somebody will apply who meets all the criteria, and failing that, that we'll get somebody who meets most of the criteria and could pick up or be trained in the the skills they need. Harry  __

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 14:49, Thomas Morton wrote: > You seem to be looking for someone extremely versatile, experienced > and independent... on a very entry level salary packet. Yup, this is what the company does. I have a problem with it if it means the actual need hasn't been clearly identified. (

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 14:55, Stevie Benton wrote: > It certainly did make all the difference for me, and I didn't mind the pay > cut either. I think it all depends on what motivates people. I don't know what pay cut you took; and I don't intend to ask! :) But at minimum you're expecting someone to t

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

On 18 June 2012 14:55, Thomas Dalton wrote: > You seem to be saying both that there is too much work, so there won't be > time for mediawiki development, and that there is too little work so > they'll be twiddling their thumbs. Which is it? > Both. MW development is a whole job in itself. From

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

You seem to be saying both that there is too much work, so there won't be time for mediawiki development, and that there is too little work so they'll be twiddling their thumbs. Which is it? On Jun 18, 2012 2:49 PM, "Thomas Morton" wrote: > Looking at the job description I have some concerns that

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

It certainly did make all the difference for me, and I didn't mind the pay cut either. I think it all depends on what motivates people. Stevie On 18 June 2012 14:51, Jon Davies wrote: > Food for thought - surely the lure of working for Wikipedia with free > fruit tea and coffee will make ALL th

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

Food for thought - surely the lure of working for Wikipedia with free fruit tea and coffee will make ALL the difference? On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Thomas Morton wrote: > Looking at the job description I have some concerns that it has been > written without the input of someone experienced

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

> there are even bigger images correction: there are even bigger issues (I said I was in a rush) Tom On 18 June 2012 14:49, Thomas Morton wrote: > Looking at the job description I have some concerns that it has been > written without the input of someone experienced in hiring individuals for

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

Looking at the job description I have some concerns that it has been written without the input of someone experienced in hiring individuals for technical or pseudo-technical roles - especially in the current economic climate. You seem to be looking for someone extremely versatile, experienced and

[Wikimediauk-l] Recruiting for the Developer

We will shortly be advertising for our developer post. We will be spreading the word far and wide, especially within the community, but all suggestions gratefully received. So far (outside leads: Mozilla Tech hub Civi-CRM Google academy Thanks Jon -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] donate.wikimedia.org.uk has an SSL error

Echo thanks to Mike. On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Gordon Joly wrote: > On 17/06/12 09:46, Michael Peel wrote: > > > But who is actually responsible? Jon Davies? Or another member of staff? > > > Right now, me as a volunteer. The responsibility will soon be > transferred to a full-time de