Gautham, Yes the need is to have policies for SOA and Web Services. Spot on. And flexibility is essentially the driving force.
Mapping from any GPL to XML for exchange is a decision that architects need to make. In some cases using Java as the on the wire protocol is more effective and in others XML makes more sense. It depends on the domain and range of languages being used. John Davies (oft seen on the Server Side) has much to say about this as does Frank Greco (chair JavaSIG on Wall Street). Autonomics was coined by IBM and is now presented as On Demand. I bet you didn't expect such a dialogue to ensue when you asked your original question. But you hit on something that is fundamentally important. Anne has been in this space for sometime and has much to say and offer. Hopefully I can offer a few pearls from time to time. Keep the thoughts flowings ..... Cheers Steve T On 20 Nov 2005, at 11:20, Gautham Kasinath wrote: > Hey Steve, > > On the topic of real world implementation of SOA Governance, here is a > link: > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/webservices_manager/htdocs/ > owsm_10gr2_fov.html > > The Oblix COREsv was formerly Confluent Software, the product of which > I was. > > To add to the list that Anne had posted, I reckon the need today is to > have policies for SOA or Web Services, in such a way that they are > flexible enough to adopt newer technologies. With XML based > standardized policy language specification, one might argue that such > a thing is already on the map, however, the way I see it, there is > still a need for programming languages to map XML data structures into > thier own language. This is not only a performance over head for > applications developed, but also a technology overhead. Technology > overhead, because, if someone comes along in say a couple of decades > and invents a more robust mechanism of data exchange, the applications > built today may be in the same soup as legacy COBOL based Mainframe > applications of yesteryears. > > What do you think? > > Hhmm... automatic computing.. that sure is new to me, I guess I will > read some things up on that! I sure am on a steep learning curve just > a few days after joining this group! Thanks a bunch! > > Cheers > G. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Steve > Ross-Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I agree that the workshop was not entitled governance for SOA at > all. > > But it was very much in that direction. As you say governance is a > very > > wide topic. Alas your reports are not available whereas the > position > > papers at the workshop are freely available. So at least it is a > start > > and coupled with your basic thoughts perhaps we can drive forward > in > > the right direction. > > > > I'd be interested in any open discussion on the topic as I have > spend a > > good deal of time talking to people about this in various roles > > (vendors, users and just practitioners) and thus far it remains > > something of a wish list rather than something that really exists > in > > product. I do know that the companies you mentioned have made > strides > > in this area (including Systinet - your old company, and of course > > Enigmatec - my old company) but we are a long way off from > achieving > > the sort of governance that is needed to achieve the IBM vision of > > autonomic computing. > > > > So any ideas thoughts would be welcome and doubly so if we can make > it > > an open discussion. > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve T > > > > On 19 Nov 2005, at 13:52, Anne Thomas Manes wrote: > > > > > Based on my experience working with clients, I disagree that the > term > > > "governance" is scoped to the subject of the W3C workshop on > > > constraints and capabilities. I've written a lot about governance > for > > > Burton Group. Unfortunately, I can't share those reports with you > > > because Burton Group reports are available only to subscribers. > > > > > > But I will share with you some basic thoughts: > > > > > > Governance refers to the processes that an enterprise puts in > place to > > > ensure that things are done right, where "right" means in > accordance > > > with best practices, architectural principles, government > regulations, > > > laws, and other determining factors. SOA governance refers to the > > > processes used to govern adoption and implementation of SOA. > > > > > > SOA governance involves three steps: > > > 1 Define SOA policies > > > 2 Deploy an SOA infrastructure that supports adoption > of these > > > policies > > > 3 Institute a set of formal processes and procedures > that verify > > > compliance with these policies > > > > > > SOA policies relate to issues such as: > > > • ·        Design principles > > > • ·        Preferred design patterns > > > • ·        Application-factoring rules > > > • ·        Naming conventions > > > • ·        Metadata requirements > > > • ·        Documentation > > > • ·        Preferred products > > > • ·        Product selection guidelines > > > • ·        Preferred domain standards > > > • ·        Preferred industry standards > > > • ·        Methods for dealing with > regulatory > requirements > > > • ·        Methods for assessing security > risks > > > •     Methods for implementing security based > on risk factor > > > • ·        Methods for ensuring > reliability and > transaction > > > integrity· > > > •     Service testing > > > •      New service deployment and staging > > > • ·        Service registration > > > • ·        Service classification > > > • ·        Service provisioning > > > • ·        Service configuration > > > • ·        Service monitoring > > > • ·        Client provisioning > > > • ·        Service modification > > > • ·        Service versioning > > > • ·        Impact analysis > > > • ·        Service level objectives (SLO) > > > • ·        Service level agreement (SLA) > compliance > tracking > > > • ·        Error tracking and resolution > > > This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface. > > > > > > Products that help with SOA governance include registries, > > > repositories, software asset management systems, workflow, > testing > > > tools, web services management. > > > > > > No one vendor covers the full SOA governance lifecycle. > > > > > > Leading players in the SOA governance software market include: > > > • Systinet and WebLayers, who provide policy > management systems > > > (repository-based system for managing the lifecycle of codified > > > policies) as well as policy compliance testing tools and > integrated > > > workflow for managing approval processes. Mindreef also does some > > > compliance testing, but at a much smaller scope. > > > • Systinet, Infravio, Flashline, and LogicLibrary, > who provide > > > registries, repositories, and/or software asset management > systems, > > > which are extremely useful for managing SOA assets and which can > be > > > used as a gatekeeper for institution of governance approval > processes > > > at various points in the service lifecycle (dev, testing, > staging, > > > provisioning, revisions) > > > • AmberPoint, Actional, Layer 7, and Reactivity, > who provide > support > > > for governance at the service provisioning and runtime stages. > > > Anne > > > > > > On 11/19/05, Gautham Kasinath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > >> Thanks for the brief explanation. I am reading the workshop > materials > > >> from W3C on the topic, following your advice. > > >> > > >> Thanks again. > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Gautham Kasinath > > >> --- In [email protected], Steve > > >> Ross-Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Gautham, > > >> > > > >> > Normally the term governance as applied to SOA is based on the > > >> notion > > >> > of static governance. > > >> > This is the sort of thing that WS-Policy (which is not a > standard) > > >> is > > >> > all about. A recent workshop > > >> > run by W3C looked at wider notions of governance including the > more > > >> > interesting form which is > > >> > dynamic governance. > > >> > > > >> > It probably makes sense to take a peek at the W3C workshop > papers to > > >> > get a better understanding > > >> > of what governance is all about. > > >> > > > >> > Cheers > > >> > > > >> > Steve T > > >> > > > >> > W3C Workshop on Constraints and Capabilities for Web Services > > >> >              > http://www.w3.org/2004/09/ws-cc-program.html#papers > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On 19 Nov 2005, at 00:33, Gautham Kasinath wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > > >> > > > > >> > >  What exactly is SOA governance? Is it goverining an SOA > > >> framework, > > >> > >  like in monitoring request-response, SLA etc? > > >> > > > > >> > >  Cheers > > >> > >  Gautham Kasinath > > >> > > > > >> > >  --- In [email protected], > John > > >> Crupi > > >> > >  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > >  > > > >> > >  > Would you like to start with the use-cases/scenarios > first to > > >> help > > >> > >  > narrow the problem? > > >> > >  > > > >> > >  > jc > > >> > >  > ----------------------------------------- > > >> > >  > John Crupi > > >> > >  > CTO, Enterprise Web Services Practice > > >> > >  > Sun Distinguished Engineer > > >> > >  > AIM: JohnCrupi > > >> > >  > Blog: blogs.sun.com/crupi > > >> > >  > Cell: 301.526.7890 > > >> > >  > > > >> > >  > > > >> > >  > On Nov 18, 2005, at 12:22 AM, Tilak Mitra wrote: > > >> > >  > > > >> > >  > > I am looking for some real world implementation of SOA > > >> > >  > > Governance, starting right from a project inception > > >> > >  > > i.e. Strategy and Visioning , through Design, > > >> > >  > > Implementation and right through operational and > > >> > >  > > runtime. > > >> > >  > > Any white paper / research work or material in any > > >> > >  > > other form would be helpful. > > >> > >  > > Thanks > > >> > >  > > Regards > > >> > >  > > Tilak > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > > __________________________________ > > >> > >  > > Yahoo! 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