JP, I guess your final sentence, which reminded me of a schoolmaster reprimanding his errant pupils yet again, combined with your no doubt absentminded but still totally unforgiveable failure to sign off your message with your name - well, let's just say..
Now what was my assumed identity on this Group...... --- In [email protected], "JP Morgenthal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You mean my presence doesn't precede me? :-). > > For me, Yahoo! Groups always shows who the email is from when it shows up in > outlook. Never even occurred to me that I would need to identify myself > further. Guess it doesn't show up the same way for all people. Sorry! > > Regards, > JP Morgenthal > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gervas > Douglas > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:11 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: SOA Infrastructure > > With my moderator's hat on: > > If you are going to be so prescriptive, I think it would be reasonable > for you to identify yourself by signing your message. > > Thank you, > > Gervas > > --- In [email protected], "JP > Morgenthal" <morgenthaljp@> wrote: > > > > Sorry, but I have to weigh in on the title of this thread. Here's a > blog > > entry I just posted at: > > http://www.avorcor.com/morgenthal/index.php?entry=entry060311-084440 > > > > SOA and SODA > > Saturday, March 11, 2006, 08:43 AM > > When the term SODA first started being bandied about I was less than > > enthusiastic about the terminology. SODA stands for Service-Oriented > Design > > of Applications. However, there's been a lot of recent discussion of > a topic > > termed "SOA Infrastructure", which has forced me to re-examine the > SODA term > > and start to use it to help explain and differentiate between > general SOA > > and a technological SOA. > > > > First of all, I do not believe there is anything called "SOA > > Infrastructure." As I explain SOA to my clients, SOA is a way of > designing a > > system. A system is an abstract entity, like a lighting system, > electrical > > system, and heating and cooling system. In this case the system we're > > designing is a business system. There's no infrastructure involved, just > > artifacts, components and the relationships between these two. > > > > An SOA can be used to design an Enterprise, a software system, even a > > telephone system. There's no limitation or inherent attribute that > says that > > a service has to be described as a software component. To do so only > limits > > the value of this architectural pattern and sets it up to be easily > > dismissed by non-technological personnel. > > > > When you get into discussions of SOA infrastructure, in my mind, > you're in > > the SODA world. You're specifically talking about an implementation > approach > > to a system designed using SOA. Things like registries and enterprise > > service buses are components of a software-only system. They have > nothing to > > do with a banking system I designed using SOA that identifies each > of the > > specific types of services the bank offers as a service. > > > > For example, I can design a bank system with a checking service, loan > > service, loan decisioning service, investment service, corporate banking > > service, etc. In each case, these services represent more than some Web > > service interface to the e-commerce offerings within each of these > areas of > > the bank. They represent the service itself inclusive of the > organization > > requirements, documents, processes, workflows, etc. > > > > So, stop abusing the term SOA and use the correct term for SOA > relative to a > > software system, which is SODA. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Mukund > > Balasubramanian > > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:33 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: SOA Infrastructure > > > > Jerry: > > > > This is indeed a pretty good description and I agree with most of it. > > > > I don't agree with making as strict a relation as that of a type and > > instance. I think it is more appropriate to leave it at the level of > > defining architecture as the answer to the question "what are the > parts and > > how do they behave" and design is the answer to the question "how > are the > > parts actually going to be built". > > > > Mukund Balasubramanian > > CTO/Infravio Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jerry Zhu <jerryyz@> > > To: [email protected] > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Fri Mar 10 08:29:28 2006 > > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: SOA Infrastructure > > > > Alex, > > > > Many here agree that architecture and design are two > > different things and architecture goes before design. > > Some may think that architecture is just a step in the > > design. I disagree. > > > > One way to differentiate the two is that architecture > > is the form or identity or a type. Design is an > > instance of that type and is a model that describes > > how the parts are implemented, what materials are used > > etc. A car is an identity as opposed to a boat and a > > generic description of a car is the architecture. A > > car can be designed into a wood car, a plastic car and > > metal car etc. So there are infinite designs with > > respect to the same architecture. Software > > architecture is technology dependent such as object > > oriented or service oriented etc. but it is platform > > independent. The same architecture can be designed > > using different platforms such as J2EE or .Net etc. > > > > Architecture has something to do with basic beliefs > > that are either accepted or rejected. Design is about > > how basic beliefs about some thing come into reality. > > > > Jerry > > > > --- Alexander Johannesen > > <alexander.johannesen@> wrote: > > > > > On 3/10/06, Jerry Zhu <jerryyz@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Architecture is not designed but defined. > > > > > > > > > > I think you'll find that architecture is used as a > > > word describing how > > > something is designed, again, pointing back to > > > design being something an > > > architect does. > > > > > > But anyways, if you look up the definitions for > > > architecture, there are as > > > many definitions as there are people trying to > > > define it. There is no one > > > answer to this, and I assert that the word itself > > > should be erased from > > > serious computer language. :) > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > -- > > > "Ultimately, all things are known because you want > > > to believe you know." > > > > > > - Frank Herbert > > > __ http://shelter.nu/ > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Computer software > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+software&w1=Computer+software&; > > > w2=Computer+aided+design+software&w3=Computer+job&w4=Soa&w5=Service-oriented > > +architecture&c=5&s=121&.sig=fpXcvMH1T7dIWKArM_WfrQ> Computer > aided > > design software > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+aided+design+software&w1=Compu > > > ter+software&w2=Computer+aided+design+software&w3=Computer+job&w4=Soa&w5=Ser > > vice-oriented+architecture&c=5&s=121&.sig=aLmDc98q-ezguJlYUiw3Rw> > > Computer job > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+job&w1=Computer+software&w2=Co > > > mputer+aided+design+software&w3=Computer+job&w4=Soa&w5=Service-oriented+arch > > itecture&c=5&s=121&.sig=S4rCT77z3xUeesYhvuqZ3g> > > Soa > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Soa&w1=Computer+software&w2=Computer+ai > > > ded+design+software&w3=Computer+job&w4=Soa&w5=Service-oriented+architecture& > > c=5&s=121&.sig=XVYKxWnIx0EdfkBS6DaTLQ> Service-oriented > > architecture > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Service-oriented+architecture&w1=Comput > > > er+software&w2=Computer+aided+design+software&w3=Computer+job&w4=Soa&w5=Serv > > ice-oriented+architecture&c=5&s=121&.sig=i-_f4IMs4JCXEMjxqUGGtA> > > > > _____ > > > > YAHOO! 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