I guess the thing that confuses me about the question is that most of the hearty agreement seems to be closer to the question "is LACK of governance killing SOA, or are the issues that governance tries to solve killing SOA" and I'm pretty sure Jeff meant something else.
--- In service-orientated- [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Karandikar,Amit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would agree - management of groups across the organization, the > coordination of efforts, getting people thinking about business > services, and convincing management of the benefits of a SOA approach in > today's market conditions, is making it tougher to implement and > architect SOA with a broader focus and objective. > > I've voiced earlier that maybe already established processes like ITIL > could help SOA, since the goals of ITIL (even though they are more > applicable to IT as a whole delivering value to the business), are more > directed to showing/measuring value - which is what all CXO's want to > see before they decide to invest into a long term effort. While > infrastructure services are mostly what ITIL seems to reference today, > business based SOA services also could be looked upon in the same light > delivering SLAs that meet business goals. > > Any opinions on this from the group? > > - Amit > > > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message (including attachments), or if you have received this message in error, immediately notify us and delete it and any attachments. If you no longer wish to receive e-mail from Edward Jones, please send this request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You must include the e-mail address that you wish not to receive e-mail communications. For important additional information related to this e-mail, visit www.edwardjones.com/US_email_disclosure > > ________________________________ > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Gervas Douglas > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 2:49 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Is Governance Killing > SOA? > > > > --- In [email protected] > <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com> , Yogish Pai > <ypai@> wrote: > > > > Yes! Governance is hampering SOA (I would not say that it is > killing SOA) and has got nothing to do with technology, products or > standards. > > > > It is all about how to leverage people with diverse skills and > background, alignment and consistency between various governance > processes (Corporate, IT, EA, SOA, etc) and politics (escalation > process, conflict resolutions, who makes what decision, etc.). > > > > Based on my limited observation, I am yet to see a clearly defined > approach by the leadership team to deal with each of these issues. > Yes! these topics need to be clearly defined and communicated out to > the enterprise. > > Is a lot of this not down largely to the disconnect between ICT and > non-ICT parts of the enterprise that frequently arises in discussions > in this Group? In other words is this largely down to a lack of > necessary communication and comprehension? > > We seem to find it impossible to define SOA with a reasonable degree > of consensus in this Group. If you were to ask a non-ICT CxO in your > organisation what was their perception of SOA, do you think on average > that you would receive a meaningful, coherent response? > > Gervas > > > > > - Yogish > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: JP Morgenthal <morgenthaljp@> > > To: [email protected] > <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:49:55 AM > > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Is Governance Killing > SOA? > > > > > > In my experience, a conceptual understanding of what is a service > > is killing SOA. I'd like to believe after the last 14 years that > > I have built a good experience base for design of services (that > > includes CORBA). I design nice service-oriented boundaries and > > software engineers look at it and just go straight for the > > tightly-coupled modeled and then tell me, "no, it's not > > tightly-coupled because it's based on an interface." > > > > Interface-based design and design-by-contract are not > > one-in-the-same, but as long as a majority of individuals > > implementing SOA don't understand this delicate delineation, SOA > > will suffer. Clearly, for many software engineers, they see a > > service as a reusable component, while for many of us that have > > been at this game awhile, we see a service as a more declarative > > entity oriented strongly toward a business bent. > > > > Having to share SOA design with engineers that don't get it has > > consistently led to a failure to move forward with the SOA design > > in favor of a modified component-oriented design. Hence, failed > > SOA. > > > > On Thu Jul 17 11:49:20 CDT 2008, jeffrschneider > > <jeffrschneider@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is governance killing SOA? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Jeff Schneider > > > > > > > > > > > >
