Actually when I first came to work at KZG I did tipping profiles for a complete iron set at diferent stiffnesses with both a 2.5" clamp and a 5" clamp. What I found is that at the hgher frequencies and shorter clubs like 9, PW, and wedges was that with a 2.5" clamp I got a straight line slope. With a 5" clamp the shorter clubs showed a logrithmic curve with increasing gaps between the two clamps rather than a staight line slope. Well I thought I was going to get straight line slopes with both just about 20 cycles apart, I mean that would be logical right so I asked Kim about this and he told me there was a difference in the way the butt was designed and you could only get a good read with a 2.5" clamp as to how the club would actually play.
That's what Kim told me. But like I said , Loyd who designed the Fitchip used a 5" clamp to do his programing calculations off of even on rifle shafts. Say what you want about his methods but I think the numbers are around 50% of the touring pros are playing a Kim Braly design of some kind. Sincerely, Robert Devino 14252 Delano St. Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 (818) 770-0475 ________________________________ From: Brad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:54:50 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? Bob, I think the point that Harry was making regarding the Braly shafts is, why not redraw the frequency charts based on 5" clamping? (generally considered to be the clubmaker's standard). His physical designs can be measured a million different ways (clamp length, tip weight, gripped/ungripped, etc), but the shaft doesn't change. Clubmakers just want/need standard methods for measuring, comparing and trimming. My guess is he probably came up with his 2.5" just to be different and "exclusive" and to make it a little more "special". Also, to make it tougher to compare his shafts to other manufacturer's in terms of published physical properties or matching. And regarding his son's club, he said it measured 334 gripped and 343 ungripped Brad On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Robert Devino wrote: Hi Harry Why not a 5" inch clamp. The BTR shaft is designed by the same guy that designed the rifle shafts. It is basically his next generation of rifle shaft but improved in the fact that with the new machinery he has now he doesn't need to reinforce the tip, so the BTR doesn't swing weight quite as heavy as a rifle shaft would. All shafts that Kim Braly designs are designed to be frequencied with a 2.5" clamp not a 5" clamp. I do use a 5" clamp on other manufacturers shafts. If you do any work with a Rifle , KB Steel , or a BTR and you don't use a 2.5" clamp you will not get a shaft to play the way Kim designed them too. If your using a 5" clamp to build rifles or KB steels to a rifle chart then your actually building about 20 - 25 cycles to soft. example if you build a rifle shaft to a 6.0 with a 5" clamp your really building something more in the range of a 4.0 . Grip or grip off is a good question. I did mine with grip off. Personally I always frequency with grip off becuase for one thing you can change a clubs frequency by changing what grip they use and to just have some kind of shop standard I went with grip off for our builds. Loyd the guy that wrote the program for the FitChip said he does grip on. But what if the fitting club doesn't have the same grip as the grip he wants to use ?? This is a personal thing that varies from builder to builder or fitter to fitter. Like I said we are experimenting with this thing right now to see if we want to actually use it or not. I don't know how a 334 cpm gives you a stiffer flex than a 343 cpm I am hoping you just have your numbers crossed. But your absolutely right I had to used a DG X 100 to get there, no way I could get there with any BTR or Rifle shaft. Sincerely, Robert Devino 14252 Delano St. Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 (818) 770-0475 ________________________________ From: Harry F. Schiestel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 10:54:22 PM Subject: ShopTalk: 7-iron at 353 cpm - how? Hi Robert, Why do you not use a 5” clamp like most other clubmakers so cpm numbers can be compared easily? Just curious! When you specify “"FitChip" fitting it recommend that I be using a 7-iron cycling at 353 cycles using a 5" clamp.” I have a question … does this stated number assume a grip on or a grip off? My son plays a 7-iron at length 36.75. Using 5 inch clamp, it is 343 cpm or 7.9 flex with grip off and 334 cpm or 8.1 flex with grip on. So basically he is playing the equivalent of a Rifle Flex 8.0 = XX-Stiff. What steel shaft would you have to buy to get it to be a XXX-Stiff flex, which would be close to your stated 353 cpm? I do not think a DG X-100 tipped will give you this kind of number unless you have an extremely low swingweight, and many Rifle shafts are sold up to 6.5 flex. Just curious how you build a demo 7-iron with steel shaft at XXX flex? Thanks Harry S www.myGolfDNA.com ________________________________ From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Devino Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:18 PM To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Performance benefits of long drivers You can put any club in a 1 handicapers hand and they will hit it just fine in just a few swings. They might not hit it as well as a well fitted club but they will adjust their swing and hit it pretty good. Put that long driver in the average golfers hand and they will loose accuracy for sure. It's just plain harder for them to get the club around and hit the center of the face. If you doubt this gt some of your buddys together and some imact tape and go test it out. Now Dave your gonna love this. Recently we have started testing the "FitChip" . Well it's been giving us some pretty interesting numbers to build for people. First off i personaly play a BTR shaft designed and manufactured by Kim Braly. It's pretty much his next version of a rifle shaft. On a rifle scale I hit a 6.0 so my 7 iron's CPM is 310 cycles (thats with a 2.5" clamp that would be about 335 with a 5" clamp). This being determined by a swing speed calculation table that we use (commonly used by a lot of fitters). Any way, after going through a "FitChip" fitting it recomenede that I be using a 7 iron cycling at 353 cycles using a 5" clamp. Well we look at the numbers and said your kidding right!!! That's a board! But because I could I built it and got on launch monitor to see what numbers came out. Low and behold, my swing speed, ball speed and distance all went up. Even when I lived in Colorado I only hit my seven iron about 175 max. Well the flight scope usually shows numbers a little shorter than reality when used indoors because you only have a short distance to read the ball with the radar. But it showed me hittng that club an average of 183 and a number of shots went over 190. Now conventional thinking would tell you that shouldn't happen but it did! I have not been the only one that we did this with. But we have had several people that we tried this with get what would seem to be really stiff shafts recomended when you comapree it to what their swing speed would seem to indicate they should be hitting and they just creem the ball. Doesn't make sense to us yet but you can't see the results we are getting and not just scartch your head a bit. Maybe stiffer is better ???????? Sincerely, Robert Devino 14252 Delano St . Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 (818) 770-0475 ________________________________
