So you are right, and every reference I can find is wrong. I guess that
is possible, but I have a hard time believing it. Here are some more:
http://www.silver-colloids.com/Papers/Solubility_Products.PDF
solubility = 13.3 ppm
http://www.vias.org/genchem/solubility_product_table.html
silver hydroxide AgOH 20°C 1.52×10^-8
http://www.cgcsforum.com/Articles/ColloidalSilverChemistry.html
In this method, free hydroxyl ions (OH^- ) in the water initially react
with the positive silver electrode to make silver hydroxide (AgOH).
Starting with pure water, and pure silver, Silver hydroxide is the only
product that can be initially made. Silver hydroxide is unstable though
and rapidly decomposes to silver oxide Ag_2 O. If you remember your high
school chemistry, the reaction forumula would be:
2AgOH --> Ag_2 O + H_2 O
http://library.deerfield.edu/pdfs/ChemAgWillbanks.pdf
solubility constant is 1X10^-8, and silver hydroxide silver hydroxide
spontaneously converts to silver oxide (was unable to get text to copy,
so paraphrasing.
There are many more.
Marshall
On 9/14/2011 11:29 PM, Mike Monett wrote:
Marshall<mdud...@king-cart.com> wrote:
>On 9/14/2011 9:42 PM, Mike Monett wrote
>> 7. The black stuff that forms on the electrodes is silver
>> hydroxide, AgOH, not silver oxide, Ag2O.
>> Your statement is incorrect.
>> You cannot produce silver Oxide, Ag2O, by using electrolysis.
> As I pointed out before, Silver Hydroxide and Silver Oxide convert
> back and forth between each other when in water. Here is a
> reference for that:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_oxide
> 2 AgOH ? Ag_2 O + H_2 O (/p/K
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_constant> = 2.875^[5]
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_oxide#cite_note-4> )
> Also as I pointed out in a previous message, silver hydroxide
> decomposes into Silver oxide when it drys out. It does not occur
> except as a solution. Here they talk about that:
>http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100726032601AA2jYuy
> Thus, when on a wet electrode, it can be silver oxide or silver
> hydroxide, but when dried out it will always be silver oxide.
>Marshall
Sorry, Marshall, your statement is incorrect. The references are
wrong.
Silver hydroxide is insoluble.
I posted experiments long ago that shows this. I found one, and am
still looking for the other. They follow along these lines:
First, silver hydroxide decomposes at 60C to 80C. I have the
reference somewhere but can't put my finger on it at the moment. But
you can prove it to yourself.
Take the anode after a brew and let it dry.
Put it on a hot plate with a microscope and thermometer.
You will find it changes from black to gray as the temperature
passes through the 60C to 80C region. This means the compound has
decomposed to oxygen and silver
Silver oxide decomposes at 280C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_oxide
So the black stuff cannot be silver oxide. The only other suspect is
silver hydroxide, AgOH. The equation is
Ag+ + OH- --> AgOH
This shows that silver hydroxide does not change to silver oxide as
it dries out.
Your statements are incorrect, and your references are wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Second, if you do a brew with 20ppm that has 10% particles, the brew
contains 2 ppm of silver hydroxide. This will turn the solution
yellow due to plasmon absorbance.
Silver oxide is soluble to 0.025 g/L, or 25ppm. Same reference.
Ions are not visible. So if the silver hydroxide changed to silver
oxide, the yellow color would disappear as the compound changed to
ions.
This does not happen. So the yellow color has to be silver
hydroxide, AgOH, and not silver oxide, Ag2O.
This shows that silver hydroxide is not soluble in dw, and your
statements are incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Third, take two electrodes and straighten them, then separate them
by the distance of a sheet of paper.
Place them in a fresh jar of dw. Measure the conductance.
Apply a small current until the electrodes show a black deposit.
Monitor the current and perform the Faraday calculation.
You may find that only 2 ppm of silver was released. Most of it
coats the electrodes.
You will find very little change in the conductance of the dw.
Remove the electrodes and place them in a fresh jar of dw. Leave
them overnight.
Look at them the next morning. There will be no change in the black
deposit.
Perform the thermal test decribed above. You will find the black
deposit turns gray as the temperature goes through 60C to 80C.
That is the signature temperature for silver hydroxide. No other
silver compound decomposes at such a low temperature.
If the silver hydroxide were soluble, it would have disappeared in
the fresh jug of dw overnight.
It did not. This shows that silver hydroxide is insoluble, and it
does not change to silver oxide.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have proven that your references are wrong, and silver hydroxide
does not spontaneously change to silver oxide.
Therefore, as I have stated, you cannot produce silver oxide by
electrolysis.
The silver ion concentration is the most important part of colloidal
silver. A weak solution may be ineffective in combating today's
virulent pathogens. The current silver ion generators do not produce
a high enough concentration to be useful in fighting them.
If you want to learn more how to get the highest silver ion
concentration possible, visit my forum at
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/silvercentral/messages
You are most cordially welcome to join. It is free.
I will post a copy of this on my forum.
I will also post a reply to your previous post as soon as I complete
the documentation for the MiniCell cs generator.
Thanks,
Mike Monett
SilverCentral
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