thanks Ivan that you mention that, the effect in mind you have is due to the friction in water. It's improbable that they come back to the wire even if they are not neutralized. If you would not have any friction than you could make a movie and play it back and forth, it would always comply with physics laws (including inertia). Without friction, if you reverse the movie it looks like you just reversed the voltage. There is also scattering on the watermolecules which introduces a new complication. It's wonderful that this discussion goes on. I have already learned a lot. Günter
Ivan Anderson schrieb: > > Another thing Guenter, > > As the AC wave form is sinusoidal, when the voltage passes through > zero to the opposite sign, the attractive force is low but the > particles having some inertia, drift further from the electrode. This > and the fact that the solution acts to slow the propagation of the > energy front (the electrical or electrostatic propagation relies on > the movement of ions and lags and is slower than the input from the > electrode) would also help to ensure the escape of the majority of the > particles. > Those particles that do find themselves reduced at the electrode may > well be the first to be oxidised at the next change of phase. > The reactions at the electrode are very complex and not as straight > forward as I had previously thought, involving electrode polarisation, > overpotential and so on... understanding the bulk solution chemistry > is far more intuitive, I have found. > > There is no doubt that HVAC silver sols are ionic, in that the > particles carry a charge, as can be easily attested by a conductivity > reading. > > Regards - Ivan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Guenter Poelz <po...@mail.desy.de> > To: <silver-list@eskimo.com> > Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 1999 06:26 > Subject: Re: CS>RE:Particle size -LV and HV > > > Hello Fred and James and the others, > > one should not forget that in water one has always also OH- and H+ > ions > > (and with changing concentrations during the process) . Assume an > Ag+ > > has been released from the anode, it may combine for a while with a > OH- > > forming AgOH and being neutral then. It will not be attracted back > to > > the electrode in the negative cycle. (Not totally true, see below). > > Another Ag+ -Ion or a AgOH-molecule, or both can bind to it and thus > may > > form a larger cluster which is less mobile and will therefore also > not > > reach the electrode in the negative cycle. > > In addition, water dipoles will be attracted by the charged particle > and > > surrounds it by a water skin (Ivan often has emphasized this). The > > particle stays positively charged, but its mobility is further > reduced. > > > > Now to the movement of neutral particles: > > If these particles are dipoles (positively charged at one end and > > negatively at the other) they may be attracted by unhomogeneous > (e.g. > > cone shaped) electrical fields. This is the same mechanism which > happens > > at HV when the water molecules are attracted to the wire, suspended > > above the water level. > > > > Does this help? > > Günter > > > > Fred schrieb: > > > > > > James, > > > > > > I wish I could afford the time to delve into the physics end > > > of this but we are branching out into so many areas here > > > that it would take years to study/relearn the mechanics of > > > crystal formation, molecular energy interactions, etc. Keep > > > at it if you can, but I must rely on good old engineering logic > > > and observations, to form most of my technical opinions. > > > Here are some more: > > > > > > My statement of "...no affinity to travel, yet is moved by the > > > electrostatic forces", is my opinion that in a fluid the forces > > > may be more on the bulk mass then on descrete atoms. > > > This is from my observations when we made oil filled HV > > > transformers with poor corona design! The insulating oil > > > appeared to be boiling, between a sharp HV point and a > > > lower voltage surface yet it was rare to see a descrete > > > particle (of the ever present fiber lint) moving alone. > > > > > > Your question of " Is it the loss of an electron? (YES!) If so, > > > and it picks up the "missing electron", and becomes metallic > > > silver, and neutral, what forces keep the clumps/atoms apart?" > > > Got me, but look at the "ion cloud" from a DC setup and note the > > > extremely low mobility of charged particles, which should be > > > both pushing apart and also rushing to the other electrode. It > > > would appear that the forces involved are weak compared to the > > > energy required to travel thru the fluid medium. It is also > possible > > > that the water, which is claimed to form rings of 6 molecules, has > > > its own forces to contend with! Those rings or water "crystals" > are > > > claimed to contribute to its classification as the universal > solvent, > > > having the ability to entrap and separate the solute. How about > all > > > the "empowered water" tales - left/right spin, magnetized? > > > > > > Is there a source for HVAC systems you trust? I have a request to > > > build a water purification system, including electrostatic > precipitation > > > of particulate matter, so will be doing research soon but it helps > to > > > have a starting point! I have a hard time envisioning an ionic > > > charge on the particles, unless the electrostatic forces are so > high > > > as to keep ions of silver from falling back onto the electrode > that > > > just released them. If that is so then how can PPM be in the > 100's? > > > > > > By the way, how come NO ONE ever mentions "Zeta" testers and the > > > fact your Cs should have a Zeta of -60mv? Check out www.bic.com > > > for limited info (makes the equipment). Ivan - you have access to > one?? > > > > > > I need some rest - questions are like rabbits - they just > multiply! > > > > > > f...@health2us.com > > > > > > -- > > > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal > silver. > > > > > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail > message to: > > > silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- > silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > > > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > > > > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > > Silver-list archive: > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@id.net> > >
