The listowner sez...
Forgive me as I referee for a bit!
The "Where to find 50 ppm......" thread started out discussing a CS
from a company called Innovative Natural Products. The claims on its
web site were justly criticized for being contradictory and unclear. It
was noted that it's claimed high concentration makes it suspect based
on our past experience with such products.
Stephen Quinto offered some analysis he had done on this product
already, including TEM. Frank Key also offered to do a suite of tests
on it and publish the results if someone would send him a bottle.
Then, somehow, someone happened to mention the idea of adding hydrogen
peroxide (H2O2) to CS to create a totally ionic prep. This raised
the...
(dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm)
... of ionic vs. particle "CS", which has been debated to death before
on the list, complete with barely restrained personal acrimony.
Waving a red cape at the partisans of ionic preparations, Marshall
wrote:
> I think most of us have reached the conclusion that colloidal silver
> is more effective than ionic silver for killing pathogens. But I
> wonder about topical application. CS would I believe deposit on the
> skin without any penetration. But silver ions should be able to
> migrate into the tissues. ... Have you [Frank] done any experiments
> to address this at all?
...prompting Ivan to reply:
> I think not Marshall. Surely most think that ionic silver is more
> effective in killing pathogens, or at least don't know which is more
> effective.
Further discussing such possible experiments, Marshall wrote...
> If someone is capable of getting me samples of CS that have
> different sized particles, which fall in a fairly narrow range, I can
> make complete spectrographs from infrared to uv of the absorption. I
> only need a few ml of each to make the tests.
Frank offered, in response:
> You have a sample of fairly consistent particles of about 1.4 nm in
> the Mesosilver (as shown in the size distribution plot that is
> posted for Mesosilver under the Commercial Product Reports on the
> silver-colloids web site).
At this point, the topical die was well and fully cast, and we were
destined to descend again into the maelstrom of the...
(dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm)!
Stephen Quinto, rising to the challenge, replied:
> Your post ... is somewhat disingenuous, since this Mesosilver is now
> a commercial product made by you. What's more I quote ... "The lab
> is equipped to perform measurements of all the physical properties
> of metal colloidal solutions that pertain to the quality and
> effectiveness of the product." Perhaps you can tell this forum how
> you test for "effectiveness"?
Which Frank answered thusly (condensed from two messages):
> That is described on the web site also. ... From the standpoint of
> the physical properties ... effectiveness of a colloid is directly
> proportional to the particle surface area per unit volume of
> colloidal solution. ... A calculated particle surface area is now
> presented in the Commercial Product Reports for use as a metric in
> comparing colloids.
... arousing Ivan to inquire:
> You sell a health product, do you test for its effectiveness as a
> health product, as you imply in the quoted passage: "The lab is
> equipped to perform measurements of all the physical properties of
> metal colloidal solutions that pertain to the quality and
> effectiveness of the product..."? ... Do you think this CS to be
> more effective health-wise than a CS with high ionic content? Why?
> I am actually interested!
So, we've watched in amazement as Frank's demonstrated propensity to
state his opinions as FACT has predictably raised the ire of Stephen,
and evoked a tactful challenge from Ivan. We've also quaked in terror,
as Frank's unseemly (*and* openly displayed) link to a <gasp>
commercial product was laid bare!
Ohhh, the Horror, the Suspense!!! <SCREAM>
The (dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm) strikes again!
Ahem...
At this point, let me explain to the gathered multitudes that you all
don't have to worry about the outcome of this particular discussion! If
you're just wondering if CS works and want to learn a bit about how to
make and use it, you can safely ignore the questions being bandied
about by the several participants in this thread...
The question is whether it is the particulate or ionic (or some other)
component of what we generically refer to as "Colloidal Silver" that
does the job. Ultimately, the answer is of little practical concern to
us, yet, as we already know from experience that even simple,
relatively uncontrolled and uncharacterized preparations have yielded
the kinds of good results we've come to expect.
So relax, keep learning, and enjoy (or ignore) the show!
Gentlemen, please allow me a few further comments?
Frank obviously believes that particles, not ions, are the effective
portion of what we generically refer to as "Colloidal Silver." He has
consequently expended great effort to develop a process to make a
particulate preparation with little ionic content. It has further been
revealed, by Frank himself on his web site, that his efforts have
proceeded to the point of marketing a commercial product.
Please note, Stephen, that in the context of this thread, Frank didn't
claim superiority for his "Mesosilver" product, but offered it for the
uv/visible spectrophotometer measurements that Marshall was
contemplating, since it may meet Marshall's requirement for a well
characterised preparation with a narrow range of particle size and low
ionic content.
I would like to mention, further, that Frank contacted me 2-3 weeks
back to let me know that his work had advanced to the point that they
are now marketing a product. He asked for permission to disclose that
fact to the list, so that just such difficulties as Stephen's concern
could be avoided. I said that he could do so, and that I would expect
him to continue to participate here as an individual, on a
non-commercial basis, to which he agreed.
About that time there were a series of distractions as the list server
decided to bump him from the list several times for no reason, and I
suspect that is part of why he has not gotten around to posting that
disclosure. I'll leave it to Frank to take this opportunity to address
the issue.
In any case, I would appreciate it if all involved would refrain from
1) accusing one another of impropriety, and 2) stating opinions as
fact, and 3) taking offense when none is intended. You are faced with
sharing the forum with individuals who are your competitors in
commercial enterprise. They also have personalities to deal with. I
understand that this makes it more difficult for you than for those of
us who do not have a commercial interest to defend.
Please consider, though, how much you have in common with one another.
None of you would be expending so much effort if it weren't for the
fact that the products you have created help people -- can literally
save lives.
That *each* of you have a product that works well is not in doubt, at
least for me. For the purposes of this forum, then, which is *best* is
less important than that each is *good* or even *excellent.*
I hope that we can enjoy discussions among you that will advance the
art for all of us. It is a given that there are too many things that we
don't *know* about "CS" yet, even though you gentlebeings have each
done more than your share in unearthing the truth. Let's be good sports
and give each other enough slack to keep the discussion positive and to
remain, if possible, friends.
I propose that we proceed to consider Ivan's questions and leave
the divisive aspects aside:
> Do you think this CS to be more effective health-wise than a CS with
> high ionic content? Why? I am actually interested!
So am I.
Be well,
Mike Devour
silver-list owner
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com ]
[Speaking only for myself... ]
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