Misunderstood it, sorry :-)
Well, it makes sense to carry on telling them so and showcase things that you like… they are very responsive and have changed countless UI things already jb > On 14 May 2018, at 10:41, Alastair Hearsum <[email protected]> wrote: > > I didnt mean you were trolling I meant is what I am doing trolling? I'm > popping up and shooting everything down. > I'm just trying to get an aknowledgement that there is a huge gap to be > filled in the user experience of Houdini and its something they dont take > seriously enough > > > On 14/05/2018 10:37, Jordi Bares wrote: >> The opposite of trolling actually, I hope it is obvious I only mean to share >> my experiences and ideas on how to get the best possible Houdini ride. >> >> But I won’t insist any more on the “try it” part… >> jb >> >> >>> On 14 May 2018, at 10:32, Alastair Hearsum <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Is this trolling? I'm not sure. But I feel I have to keep shooting this >>> kind of thing down. Without naming names you know the guy that created a >>> very complex feather system in ICE here at Glasswork, on the job. We have >>> been using Houdini as you know for a few years now, so with the combination >>> of a technically minded artist who operates at a high level exposed to >>> Houdini for few years who is still tearing his hair out in frustration >>> points to the issues with Houdini. >>> They need to seriously look at improving their user interaction. Its not >>> just about getting used to it. >>> >>> On 12/05/2018 16:18, Jordi Bares wrote: >>>> I would suggest to give it a proper go, if you have used ICE you will see >>>> how easy it is. >>>> >>>> jb >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 12 May 2018, at 10:48, Tom Kleinenberg <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This is a really interesting discussion and covers thoughts from all >>>>> angles. There is an element to the discussion of technical types telling >>>>> the rest of us we just need to "git gud" which is a bit disheartening >>>>> though. (It's disheartening not because it's patronising but because the >>>>> only way to use Houdini is to master it at fairly high technical level >>>>> which will exclude a number of people, myself included). I understand >>>>> that there is a technical learning curve to any piece of software but >>>>> Houdini is a different beast to the other big three (Max, Maya, eXSI). >>>>> You can drop a Maya artist in XSI and tell them to achieve a task and >>>>> they'll do it - maybe not the most efficient way, but a way that works. I >>>>> don't feel that's the same in Houdini. There's too much "well, nobody >>>>> really models in Houdini" or "you can, but nobody really animates in >>>>> Houdini". That's not necessarily bad, Zbrush is probably the "best" >>>>> software on the market in terms of expectations to results but it's clear >>>>> about it's narrow focus. >>>>> >>>>> To put it in a personal way, I've worked to some level in 3DS Max, Maya, >>>>> Lightwave and XSI. I wouldn't consider myself particularly artistically >>>>> gifted or technically proficient but I am good at understanding the needs >>>>> of a non-technical person (eg art-director), drawing up a list of >>>>> requirements and achieving them, getting support from concept artists are >>>>> pipeline TD's if needed. XSI was* the software that allowed me to go the >>>>> furthest independently (*was because I've had to move to Maya). I would >>>>> love to replace that and Houdini appears to be a good fit but I'm not >>>>> sure. Maybe the "uber-nodes" you're discussing are anathematic to >>>>> Houdini's overall workflow but would be streamline the on-boarding >>>>> process. XSI was excellent at getting people into the software and then >>>>> allowing you to get into the more complex bits on your own; although ICE >>>>> was the main weapon in my arsenal, it's possible to work for years >>>>> without ever touching it. >>>>> >>>>> On 12 May 2018 at 09:34, Jordi Bares <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> @Matt, Exactly my thoughts (but clearly better explained) >>>>> >>>>> I would certainly advocate to improve things in terms of node >>>>> functionality or assisting better in certain aspects (blend shape >>>>> manager, exporting bundles in and out, or adding hierarchical overrides >>>>> in takes, or adding certain tools we use every single day, or bringing >>>>> more “uber nodes” to VOPs so we don’t have to be so granular) but always >>>>> without sacrificing proceduralism or breaking their core design. >>>>> >>>>> Jb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 11 May 2018, at 22:04, Matt Lind <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Given Houdini is a node based system, there is a simple paradox at play >>>>>> that in order to get the level of cohesiveness Softimage employed, tools >>>>>> need to share information and work together. A node based system, by >>>>>> design, requires each node to act independently. To get the Softimage >>>>>> workflow in Houdini requires either monolithic nodes with enough >>>>>> intelligence to cover all the bases of a particular task, or the UI >>>>>> needs to take control and hide the nodes behind the scenes slapping >>>>>> user's wrists if they attempt to fiddle with the nodes involved. In >>>>>> either case, it works against a node based system's mantra. >>>>>> >>>>>> In short, I don't think it's possible for Houdini to ever become another >>>>>> Softimage. You'll have to settle for something that has great power but >>>>>> some degree of cumbersome workflow. >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 2 Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 18:44:10 +0100 From: Alastair Hearsum >>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: >>>>>> Re: Houdini : non VFX jobs? To: [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> I think there is real danger in pinning all this grumbling on lack of >>>>>> familiarity and not acknowledging that there are some fundamental design >>>>>> issues . The first step to recovery is to admit that there a problem. As >>>>>> everyone knows there is some fantastic technology in there but its >>>>>> strung together in an awful way. Its like putting the organs of a 20 >>>>>> year old in an octagenarian; each organ very capable in its own right >>>>>> but not in the ideal host to get the best out if it. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ Softimage Mailing List. To unsubscribe, send a mail to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> with “unsubscribe” in >>>>>> the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in >>>>> the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in >>>>> the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in the >>>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> -- >>> Alastair Hearsum >>> Creative Director of 3d >>> >>> >>> 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>>> The Penthouse, >>> 5th Floor, >>> 87-91 Newman Street >>> London >>> W1T 3EY >>> T +44 (0)20 7434 1182 >>> glassworks.co.uk >>> 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>>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk >>> 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>>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 73 >>> Cornhill, London, EC3V 3QQ. >>> VAT registration number: 198083762) >>> Please consider the environment before you print this email. >>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private >>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any >>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not >>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended >>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that >>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is >>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please >>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system. >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >> >> >> >> ------ >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in the >> subject, and reply to confirm. > > -- > Alastair Hearsum > Creative Director of 3d > > > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzI-2F9k-2BWBXKW27XRR1WxPwQSotdeaTQI8WptYwcBKkUcQDeQqdUVQARY7-2Bf9-2F42RSh88PHxvJ1YO4YwTlS-2FukhPgVluYdL4ndcdtAtmW-2Fh91DtQ7W6trXMHYixjpXGVzZyZoho6rdm4UF2PbFVKGh-2B6WSfoD1slES0RLpShL9Eqk5FqC-2Bc1cZ0wvws9GI9I28oESXsSUL9YmlKOlW6ojzpeJqYnjXy-2FPO727kf-2BMdjdAKv4Xev4FahMyqgM4b6t-2BxIN-2B-2BavMN2m9nTC7fRK8X4LcpnSf-2ByfK1AcKp1hLKXDFUa6QKTi8-2B6KIJZImYHYLWm_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWM71IavRBwBTWbnCAE4tEU-2BD4nn9l-2Fqd1FSvhWeay0TZUH-2B-2Fqd4gtEwM7hjMOE6NsjY-2BNpec4W8owxOgUjMqKmH1dY-2B60m7AonFIo05B8TbW6ZRDecbj2YqceQzMxk-2BjfMjbqKn-2F7tTaqkRW2ApbokM-2BffDZCCqhcs-2FZFwQTrS4U-3D> > > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzI-2F9k-2BWBXKW27XRR1WxPwQY1GdzVHrOhzmNUkqtzt43aZvgyn1fmDQkaFQyqZTngJKZnYRZVIMuMPztozWZKfub7lBM0QfMEwR7BI1LHUy6W0FaPBE-2BAOYuKWt8-2Bikr45-2BLx8itslN6N-2BeblPdVwHJrUUy8hqN-2FvQiBF6wChuyR9NCCUNkVQcFf96YY2OulZpJ-2BQRDYe4z-2F84YnB4D2NP88sbWarbm1mas8nhcEJIWolHcuLEFXTwhrebE1JBXwzkq5Zn6puu5PZ2OFi3-2FZ8PPdhviHNS1Y315xnNbUF11SiQKQoKO9LkfcNEiq1JlozpAY7jefZdJSsHHxTO0nIlv7jOgJPteaJvAIZ2IEN-2FwT4-3D_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWdQITH1hUD0xFICT2UPnSorFvcmf6LqT462QN-2FNt3jUV0Efqj3d79LgKvFuPnkjrGiB5Qoz9nbbEgTw9ISp7qSzBa7EdXps1XwvMj3ayAjmL3zHWrN-2Frb3W5sDHz1bAVNsFBnXNAVbHwA5aBboKvtnnd55sbXJsYdO4J2K07jZOk-3D> > > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzpxQkSLOfTq4HC3Po9JBIUVDhKk8b5yEaENDBscupnkF6AC1y5fOI0Vw8eJgMH8v5BGY6P5sAiKM9Y9JqU3Uvy79TtMqowC4MIq7VOe7nu6i0PCr524no1l7MJO7-2FM6vyBS-2Fgg354Sga9xkTOcz9N70z6zMsvQ7hGH7mGfFAmVFKqYs93Be7KLmEvA3Sqwy9mQ8eJ-2BBusymxoFLVRqD4SaI8MoUDoT6O5Gudyyfm0If-2BsL-2F7CcXQnsZrXNxNaiSDxVGf4Gy1GyYlyUJIgVbr1taLVTMfJ4i-2BlHTb6RrQNUY90LuBPu15DtW58WcIAQRBB_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWUUSy988fzEHXvX-2FIG0O0PL-2BGxM7KG77lnJhPwq-2BBOQM5e84iu5NlxORE-2FQJNZwdkMaddFbMgh0c7KHUheE4vU9fHwX2Vj7XQeIygYfddyK-2Bc8uqctR2-2BaadU5YgqM-2FTLJMK0xTGbNqQVGeSYxuoiTEqdc0xb79iFj93g7-2BZ1d6w-3D> > > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzWpJgDB4I6SxXkhYoec4DoUOxpqnxdeIQ46UcC0aGUIHnQw9NJdMZOLnfCUu3-2BBzcNc7XihFkZffpsHE9f8yVK1pepapTJzOTkbV2KVfqGJ7nlCLVlzXzJIumbpbk7afxFEyFdcqp4z7iZ83sX8GZ8vVK4Ty9cSwqvDKjO6xiNjqaVDslD1p9o8kS41nFDk8h9UuWHkXPKEPd4h8ma0IPpXhvDgTdbVaoKHD-2FuN9MAC-2FvByhHOreoHwLsPZGg6SBGrSqgFcCB8A77lhg6cHavs2EEOloSojVnoi9DzVfvtxR0sIo9NtBW7M-2BeOyjAepek_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWai5DLZ2vCXNnpNoIpeSUduMHhJTYhYw1hjrqTtnuXwnXb5v8sYvA-2FiZO4SMNpwHDgEqnvMFA70lpm1N5bayQptuhsjotHIX6mPIcr9Qlz1tmkMaaOaf0h2-2Fh-2FImWzoh9yF2nktuW-2BKHUgH-2BuZ7JysAno4e0I386BfNbkKCqhMp4-3D> > > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2Mtqz4eMFTv0EHUJxLnXkpQi7s8c4jNSplqncANo7mVILEBGX7K3xEEsEprPa9OQS-2BkCQjffgnodtHxVY8d67JBNvVGVn7jkWQUlWfvdOizYggocUTG1RSEr3A1vqb-2FUw-2B69oV715qS4Bm3-2FmCeyCFRmfrZS1OJm91QEucIBSpnNhGsdizWJj3N8K1j6t4k6n2ldGkc9pr3R6HkuZdpjb5csYTy27Z3OUxbQwRN7dEgFUP8qzY9F122kGeeuzRNCU8BVmuj-2BixIJ0sualrniSe3vc5PbSfHyYNcULBa06fplv39VDeQmU10392wHZZj25lkS3_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWbhE-2ByjjELk-2BFMnV5t4LQPlR1h54vKkMEYMKuS3d9l8dOCICbWi9p9AcH93pjzB8sqqV90VnsehPM-2BnHAO3o2fL1WCdlnAuFlotVd0Fd89BIGjfsMrgFzTIHDFTbjiBETZ6Nlu0CLp9qlShThu-2FCo0UAml8LoiL1h63jyC8EZyG4-3D> > > See our latest work here > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzI-2F9k-2BWBXKW27XRR1WxPwQSotdeaTQI8WptYwcBKkUcQDeQqdUVQARY7-2Bf9-2F42RSh88PHxvJ1YO4YwTlS-2FukhPgVluYdL4ndcdtAtmW-2Fh91DtQ7W6trXMHYixjpXGVzZyZoho6rdm4UF2PbFVKGh-2B6WSfoD1slES0RLpShL9Eqk5FqC-2Bc1cZ0wvws9GI9I28oESXsSUL9YmlKOlW6ojzpeJqYnjXy-2FPO727kf-2BMdjdAKv4Xev4FahMyqgM4b6t-2BxIN-2B-2BavMN2m9nTC7fRK8X4LcpnSf-2ByfK1AcKp1hLKXDFUa6QKTi8-2B6KIJZImYHYLWm_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWqRCQ7YsOBluCqLEhoQJnntv4-2BhqqnOGooopGLBqSd62J3xw-2BJS-2FBfleu0MxPwgkzxG-2F0Cy1zsz5U3rrilGgcWfG7cv-2FbxBAIF3Hsmt9dyE-2FbEFfDpnVoYexl3gDzKGO3F0aNK-2Form6xF5naCNJZ4lDiZqNdegU4Alku10nxnuW8-3D> > The Penthouse, > 5th Floor, > 87-91 Newman Street > London > W1T 3EY > T +44 (0)20 7434 1182 > glassworks.co.uk > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzI-2F9k-2BWBXKW27XRR1WxPwQSotdeaTQI8WptYwcBKkUcQDeQqdUVQARY7-2Bf9-2F42RSh88PHxvJ1YO4YwTlS-2FukhPgVluYdL4ndcdtAtmW-2Fh91DtQ7W6trXMHYixjpXGVzZyZoho6rdm4UF2PbFVKGh-2B6WSfoD1slES0RLpShL9Eqk5FqC-2Bc1cZ0wvws9GI9I28oESXsSUL9YmlKOlW6ojzpeJqYnjXy-2FPO727kf-2BMdjdAKv4Xev4FahMyqgM4b6t-2BxIN-2B-2BavMN2m9nTC7fRK8X4LcpnSf-2ByfK1AcKp1hLKXDFUa6QKTi8-2B6KIJZImYHYLWm_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWHQ8AEODxitnHG8HE5vpghJUzMxTVMVzZmbjZcmH9s2q59li7LpGtL9rpK9-2BGgqW2wmeASwwXKlxAwwqb2qfcfeujfLwsc5DYcKuGyOL86DQP9D8wFHU8vSWYLnEf8ERMqp0doxoz-2Fmf1gzvvW4GBF0Q-2BIvm1CMwx3OeQDbPtf3k-3D> > Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk > <https://u7507473.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=5SmYwFIJXHmC5X9wAP0G6mg4oLGBuQENbeDkYXezg3m6vjHxJcC6rUMd8QE2MtqzI-2F9k-2BWBXKW27XRR1WxPwQSotdeaTQI8WptYwcBKkUcQDeQqdUVQARY7-2Bf9-2F42RSh88PHxvJ1YO4YwTlS-2FukhPgVluYdL4ndcdtAtmW-2Fh91DtQ7W6trXMHYixjpXGVzZyZoho6rdm4UF2PbFVKGh-2B6WSfoD1slES0RLpShL9Eqk5FqC-2Bc1cZ0wvws9GI9I28oESXsSUL9YmlKOlW6ojzpeJqYnjXy-2FPO727kf-2BMdjdAKv4Xev4FahMyqgM4b6t-2BxIN-2B-2BavMN2m9nTC7fRK8X4LcpnSf-2ByfK1AcKp1hLKXDFUa6QKTi8-2B6KIJZImYHYLWm_xtAIgyeGUkaFYUSrrLyyFGCT559IxnI2CalBtcQNCt0tZY80WdeO-2FP1y590GKXvWNZ0I-2F5z0iLQbeRmmjV1K3TaLFWLXRGSU1rBnbgCPGrBmIJNpUDeDTjSjUUJemiO6kHvmH4qw0g-2B8gQqJS-2FpPbrZ3uQaGiF2ekoxiMjwTIH8zFwwR4t4NjDkaiXcAElIirZsjT4C0uJNR9X6VaYwmiuPWxg2X0rcz9cmEHCz1tJc-3D> > (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 73 > Cornhill, London, EC3V 3QQ. > VAT registration number: 198083762) > Please consider the environment before you print this email. > DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and > confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views > or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily > represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be > advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, > dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it > to the sender and delete this message from your system. > ------ > Softimage Mailing List. > To unsubscribe, send a mail to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, and reply to confirm.
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