Well, I have to say that I strongly disagree with you. No regular user should have to resort to the source code to understand that edismax is preconfigured. Because that is what this is all about, in essence. The current documentation doesn't mention this, and the only documentation about configuration I could find states that the configuration can be found in the example solrconfig.xml.
I don't know why you start talking about implementation details. That is a totally different discussion. I am talking about "What do I need to do to make feature X work?", and if the answer to that is "Nothing, feature X is already available and configured out-of-the-box", well, then the documentation should simply state that fact. There is no reason to hide the fact that the feature is already built in. This is what I'm talking about. But to be crystal clear what I'm talking about: 1. Something works automatically, with no indication why -> This I consider "automagical", and in most cases bad (at least from a professional point of view). 2. Something works automatically, with an indication why (even just a few words can be OK) -> This is good. Now, regarding my responsibility as a novice solr user. Somehow I should have *known* that one seemingly official solr documentation site was old/deprecated, even though I didn't see any information about that on that site? And then when I found the correct documentation site, I somehow should have *known* that edismax was preconfigured? (Otherwise, how would I know what documentation changes to suggest?) Now, I could make some rude comment now about your tone. But I know that I might not have articulated myself in the perfect manner myself in some of my messages in this thread. So maybe it is best that we assume that we both in a way misunderstood each other a bit (I never meant that the hard work of Solr developers/commiters was unappreciated, and you probably never meant that important information should be hidden from the user). Also, I hope that you don't find my critique about the documentation in any way as some kind of "demands". I know I am not a paying customer, so I know I can't "demand" anything, and would never think of doing that. But that doesn't mean that one can't look at this from a crass "business" perspective. If one's goal is to have many happy and educated users, then it is not bad to think about having the documentation up-to-date and clear about things, even things that most experienced Solr users find obvious. Regarding the old wiki page. I found it using google. If I search for "ExtendedDisMax", "edismax configuration", or even just "edismax", I get that page as the very first hit. So I can only assume that I am not the only one stumbling over that old wiki. Some kind of tombstone warning sounds smart. Regards /Jimi -----Original Message----- From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 2:40 PM To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found There is nothing wrong with features that appear to be automagical - that should in fact be a goal for all modern software systems. Of course, there is no magic, it's all real logic and any magic is purely appearance - it's just that the underlying logic may be complex and not obvious to an uninformed observer. Deliberately hiding information from users (e.g., implementation details) is indeed a goal for Solr - no mere mortal should be exposed to the intricate detail of the underlying Lucene search library or the apparent magic of edismax. In truth, nothing is hidden - the source code of both Solr and Lucene are readily available. But to the user it may (and should) appear to magical and even automagical. OTOH, maybe some of the doc on edismax was not as clear as it could have been, in which case it is up to you to point out which specific passage(s) caused your difficulty. AFAICT, nothing at all was hidden - the examples in the doc (which I pointed you to) seem very simple and direct to the point. If you experienced them otherwise, it is up to you to point out any problems that you had. And as I pointed out, you had started with the old wiki when you should have started with the current Solr Reference Guide. The old edismax wiki should in fact have a tombstone warning that indicates that it is obsolete and redirect people to the new doc. Out of curiosity, how did you get to that old wiki page in the first place? -- Jack Krupansky On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:20 AM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se> wrote: > There is no need to deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. What I was > trying to say was that "automagical" things don't belong in a > professional environment, because it is hiding important information > from people. And this is bad as it is, but if it on top of that is the > *intended* meaning for things in solr to be "automagical", ie > *deliberately* hiding information from the solr users, well that > attitude is just baffling in my eyes. I can only hope that I misunderstood > you. > > /Jimi > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:44 PM > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found > > So, all this hard work that people have put into Solr to make it more > like a Disney theme park is just... wasted... on you? Sigh. Okay, I > guess we can't please everyone. > > -- Jack Krupansky > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:40 PM, <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se> > wrote: > > > I have no problem with automatic. It is "automagicall" stuff that I > > find a bit hard to like. Ie things that are automatic, but doesn't > > explain how and why they are automatic. But Disney Land and Disney > > World are actually really good examples of places where the magic > > stuff is suitable, ie in themeparks, designed mostly for kids. In > > the grown up world of IT, most people prefer logical and documented > > stuff, > not things that "just works" > > without explaining why. No offence :) > > > > /Jimi > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:31 PM > > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org > > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found > > > > Yes, it absolutely is automagic - just look at those examples in the > > Confluence ref guide. No special request handler is needed - just > > the normal default handler. Just the defType and qf parameters are > > needed > > - as shown in the wiki examples. > > > > It really is that simple! All you have to supply is the list of > > fields to query (qf) and your actual query text (q). > > > > I know, I know... some people just can't handle automatic. (Some > > people hate DisneyLand/World!) > > > > -- Jack Krupansky > > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:16 PM, > > <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se> > > wrote: > > > > > I'm sorry, but I am still confused. I'm expecting to see some > > > <requestHandler> tag somewhere. Why doesn't the documentation nor > > > the example solrconfig.xml contain such a tag? > > > > > > If the edismax requestHandler is defined automatically, the > > > documentation should explain that. Also, there should still exist > > > some xml code that corresponds exactly to that default setup, right? > > > That is what I'm looking for. > > > > > > For now, this edismax thing seems to work "automagically", and I > > > prefer to understand why and how something works. > > > > > > /Jimi > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jack Krupansky [mailto:jack.krupan...@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:58 PM > > > To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: ExtendedDisMax configuration nowhere to be found > > > > > > Consult the Confluence wiki for more recent doc: > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/solr/The+Extended+DisM > > > ax > > > +Q > > > uery+Parser > > > > > > You can specify all the parameters on your query request as in the > > > examples, or by placing the parameters in the "defaults" section > > > for your request handler in solrconfig.xml. > > > > > > > > > -- Jack Krupansky > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:42 PM, > > > <jimi.hulleg...@svensktnaringsliv.se> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I want to setup ExtendedDisMax in our solr 4.6 server, but I > > > > can't seem to find any example configuration for this. Ie the > > > > configuration needed in solrconfig.xml. In the wiki page > > > > http://wiki.apache.org/solr/ExtendedDisMax it simply says: > > > > > > > > "Extended DisMax is already configured in the example > > > > configuration, with the name edismax." > > > > > > > > But this is not true for the solrconfig.xml in our setup (it > > > > only contains an example for dismax, not edismax), and I > > > > downloaded the latest solr zip file (solr 5.5.0), and it didn't > > > > have either dismax or edismax in any of its solrconfig.xml files. > > > > > > > > Why is it so hard to find this configuration? Am I missing > > > > something obvious? > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > /Jimi > > > > > > > > > >
