I agree! Anarchy and Chaos have been put in check since Sheriff Muncy rode
into town, to clean up this forum.
Have a nice weekend all, we'll resume stretching the boundaries of logic and
common sense again Monday!
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: max velocity
If 32 FPS is good, and 20 FPS better-
Let's regulate it down to BEST-
ZERO FPS
There would be no friction loss.
Pipe sizes would be standardized on most systems to all being 8".
Bids would all be based on this- so bids would be more even.
We'd win coordination battles since now we're not the smallest piping in
the
area, hence easiest to move.
And fly-by-night sprinkler contractors would go away since they don't have
the tools for 8".
Great idea ! I doubt the committee will, absent any engineering data,
limit
velocities in the future. And there's a lot more to bidding than velocity
and pipe sizes-
I could Bid a 30' high spec building for .4/2000 so they could store a
reasonable amount of rack storage in their building, and if the supply is
strong, be 50 FPS.
My competitor could bid it OH2 and limit storage to 12' (although tenant
won't) and be 20 FPS but still win- since he's using 400 sf/head ECOH
sprinklers.
It's been some time since we worried about velocity, and I don't think
we're
experiencing anarchy and chaos.
George Church
Rowe Sprinkler
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth W.
Warren
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: max velocity
Mario - I think to make the leap from water velocity in a sprinkler system
piping to anarchy and chaos might be pushing the ticket a tad.
As far as "For the same job if a contractor calculates the pipe with 20
fps
, other contractor calculates with 30 fps and another with 50 fps; the
contractor with 50 fps will win the bid. Is that correct? is that
fair?"
the answer is YES and YES.
The only way the design velocity will be reached is if all the sprinklers
in
the design area operate and discharge. Have you ever been to a fire scene
where the remote area sprinklers - all of them by the way - have actually
been the sprinklers which controlled or extinguished the fire?
From what I have heard on here, fast velocity causes excess friction loss
and is self-regulating. If you have data that shows a poor sprinkler
system
response to a fire was caused by the velocity of the water, sharing that
data would convert many that do not share your passion at this time.
Until
then, adhering to all of the current requirements, and basing your design
on
those requirements, should be considered admirable.
Garth
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: max velocity
Mark,
Several years ago I wrote several e-mails to the Forum on this subject;
they may be in the Archives. In the past 20 fps was indicated in NFPA 13;
slowly thru the years that 20 fps was taken out; if a limit is not given
then anarchy , chaos will happen. I have reviewed plans with 56 fps and
the
contractor is right ,nfpa 13 says no limits in velocity. The statement
about
good design , conservative design, prudent design is not read.
For the same job if a contractor calculates the pipe with 20 fps , other
contractor calculates with 30 fps and another with 50 fps; the contractor
with 50 fps will win the bid. Is that correct? is that fair?
Mario Berrios,P.E.
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